Norfolk Arts and Entertainment

[scm]

I saw another documentary about Austin and how it was being heavily developed into suburbs... Has Austin always been suburban and then there was an influx of weirdos? I've never been, what's it like?

Well, you have to realize that movie was made to advance one side of the political debate, a side which was partially funded by the film's producer, Robert Redford. So it isn't the most balanced presentation -- but that isn't answering your question. Austin has always been very tolerant of diverse lifestyles, very environmentally sensitive, and was traditionally a low cost of living city (at least until the early eighties). There were three industries there -- the University, state government, and the IRS service center. Then, in the late sixties, IBM came to town, and the tech boom started that hasn't ended yet. In the eighties, Dell computer started in Micheal Dell's UT dorm room. Austin competed for, and won a consortium to research ways to make better computer chips -- then, the chip companies moved in -- AMD, Motorola (now Freestyle), Samsung, etc. Early nineties saw the rise of the software companies -- Tivoli, etc. All of this created demand for housing -- the question was where? In the beautiful hills to the west, or the flat farmlands to the east? The Austin "core" -- the UT/State gov't crowd who lived in the center of town -- was quite content to never build another house. They are incredibly politically active, and have the time to be such -- almost exclusively democrat. So when the demand started for housing for these new residents, they exerted their political clout to bar the growth in the hills to the west. That is what you saw in that movie -- the tension between the "core" and the newcomers, represented by the people trying to meet those demands for housing. I could bore you to tears with the details -- the developer featured in that movie, Gary Bradley, is a good friend of mine. The council session? I was there as one of the few citizens in favor of the development. So I am probably not the most objective observer. I hope I answered your question, even though I probably gave you more detail than you wanted.

[scm]

We have a huge number of patents coming out of the region, too. Creativity isn't always something you can hang on a wall.

"Huge"? Compared to what? Certainly not compared to the MSAs closest to us. 1999 is the latest year for patents by MSA -- Norfolk/VB had 132 granted that year. Two MSAs above us -- Columbus and Indianapolis, had 344 and 544 respectively. Three below us -- Charlotte, Providence, RI, and Austin, had 260, 221, and 1571 respectively. Which makes the average for the five MSAs closest to us -- 588 to our 132. You have to go down six places from us to get a MSA with as few patents as HR -- Jacksonville at 131 (and 21% fewer people).

[cpeakesqr]

Well, you have to realize that movie was made to advance one side of the political debate, a side which was partially funded by the film's producer, Robert Redford. So it isn't the most balanced presentation -- but that isn't answering your question. Austin has always been very tolerant of diverse lifestyles, very environmentally sensitive, and was traditionally a low cost of living city (at least until the early eighties). There were three industries there -- the University, state government, and the IRS service center. Then, in the late sixties, IBM came to town, and the tech boom started that hasn't ended yet. In the eighties, Dell computer started in Micheal Dell's UT dorm room. Austin competed for, and won a consortium to research ways to make better computer chips -- then, the chip companies moved in -- AMD, Motorola (now Freestyle), Samsung, etc. Early nineties saw the rise of the software companies -- Tivoli, etc. All of this created demand for housing -- the question was where? In the beautiful hills to the west, or the flat farmlands to the east? The Austin "core" -- the UT/State gov't crowd who lived in the center of town -- was quite content to never build another house. They are incredibly politically active, and have the time to be such -- almost exclusively democrat. So when the demand started for housing for these new residents, they exerted their political clout to bar the growth in the hills to the west. That is what you saw in that movie -- the tension between the "core" and the newcomers, represented by the people trying to meet those demands for housing. I could bore you to tears with the details -- the developer featured in that movie, Gary Bradley, is a good friend of mine. The council session? I was there as one of the few citizens in favor of the development. So I am probably not the most objective observer. I hope I answered your question, even though I probably gave you more detail than you wanted.

Ha! That was the movie alright. It was obviously meant to leave you thinking one way, but unless they left out a lot of facts I agreed with the city on changing the size of the lots and Redford's protecting the spring. I thought there could have been some kind of compromise there. I didn't quite get why Bradley went bankrupt though? So what ever happened? You can PM me to keep vdogg happy...

[MissySchmidt]

"Huge"? Compared to what? Certainly not compared to the MSAs closest to us. 1999 is the latest year for patents by MSA -- Norfolk/VB had 132 granted that year. Two MSAs above us -- Columbus and Indianapolis, had 344 and 544 respectively. Three below us -- Charlotte, Providence, RI, and Austin, had 260, 221, and 1571 respectively. Which makes the average for the five MSAs closest to us -- 588 to our 132. You have to go down six places from us to get a MSA with as few patents as HR -- Jacksonville at 131 (and 21% fewer people).

wow, we have really gone way off topic from the "Virginia Arts Festival Progress". Maybe we should move to a different thread. Thanks, scm, for the food for thought. I'm checking with my sources re: the whole patent comparison issue.

[scm]

IDK, just a Telmenstr rant I guess. My theory falls apart with the successful hip-hop artists from the region, maybe they don't fit the mold.

I had an early morning thought -- I was wondering, did you mean hip-hop artists that were born here, and ply their trade elsewhere, or hip-hop artists that live here, and are part of a hip-hop artist community? Two very different issues, with two very different impacts. I am talking about the lack of a creative community of any real substance, in any field that requires creativity -- software, advertising, music, painting, medical device research, architecture, media (including games) -- you name it, I don't think it is here, with negative implications on quality of life in ways that just aren't appreciated. If there is a thriving hip-hop community, that attracts talent from across the country, then I am wrong. If you are talking about home grown talent that has moved on, then that isn't what I meant. Great for us -- just doesn't lead to valuing creativity.

Missy -- you asked the question a while back on the "white flight" thread (also got WAY off topic!) about what would I do different. Thought about that while I was out of the country. I have some thoughts (rather long -- imagine that? From me?) about what I would do differently. I have to flesh them out and get them posted. One thing to beotch about stuff -- you are a jerk if you don't spend equal time coming up with solutions. Give me till Monday.

[cpeakesqr]

I had an early morning thought -- I was wondering, did you mean hip-hop artists that were born here, and ply their trade elsewhere, or hip-hop artists that live here, and are part of a hip-hop artist community? Two very different issues, with two very different impacts. I am talking about the lack of a creative community of any real substance, in any field that requires creativity -- software, advertising, music, painting, medical device research, architecture, media (including games) -- you name it, I don't think it is here, with negative implications on quality of life in ways that just aren't appreciated. If there is a thriving hip-hop community, that attracts talent from across the country, then I am wrong. If you are talking about home grown talent that has moved on, then that isn't what I meant. Great for us -- just doesn't lead to valuing creativity.

Yea I meant the ones that move on to the big-time. No doubt these people are creative, they just choose to leave for success rather than stay and benefit the local scene. If they decided to use their clout and money to do something big-time here, like a hip-hop version of SxSW, that would great. It would also be a great thing for hip-hop, which in my opinion needs a major overhaul.

[Sky06]

You know, I thought this site was about construction projects, not a forum for criticizing every fricking thing you can think of. What makes me laugh is that everyone in this town who criticizes something thinks they are the exception. I got news for you: If you're here, you're part of the problem.

I find these accusations nothing more than stupid, uninformed exaggerations. Uninformed because those who make them will never be caught dead at an art gallery (their kind of place is Hooters), a classical concert (they probably listen to Bob FM), or a fine resturant (Hardees is more their style). Why? Because they are too cheap to try something better. And because they're too cheap, they just adopt the belief that these places don't exist. Kind of let's them off the hook for their cheapness, doesn't it?

The local art scene is very strong. (At least, that's what the NY Times and other outside publications tell us. Of couse, the Pilot could always be smarter than the Times, but I kind of doubt it.) I just heard a local woman sing a set of Italian arias with a passion no person lacking in creativity could ever accomplish. I just bought some art work from a local artist (a Phillipino woman who gratuated from ODU) that looks like nothing else I've seen. I've eaten at dozens of resturants that blow away your "amazing hamburger from Austin." I mean, you really don't think we have anything like that here? As I said before, you have to make the effort. Try the Coastal Grill, Vintage Kitchen, Todd Jurich's, Pasta E Pani.

Oh, I know, you're still eating your wings at Hooters.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Sky06

[MissySchmidt]

You know, I thought this site was about construction projects, not a forum for criticizing every fricking thing you can think of. What makes me laugh is that everyone in this town who criticizes something thinks they are the exception. I got news for you: If you're here, you're part of the problem.

I find these accusations nothing more than stupid, uninformed exaggerations. Uninformed because those who make them will never be caught dead at an art gallery (their kind of place is Hooters), a classical concert (they probably listen to Bob FM), or a fine resturant (Hardees is more their style). Why? Because they are too cheap to try something better. And because they're too cheap, they just adopt the belief that these places don't exist. Kind of let's them off the hook for their cheapness, doesn't it?

The local art scene is very strong. (At least, that's what the NY Times and other outside publications tell us. Of couse, the Pilot could always be smarter than the Times, but I kind of doubt it.) I just heard a local woman sing a set of Italian arias with a passion no person lacking in creativity could ever accomplish. I just bought some art work from a local artist (a Phillipino woman who gratuated from ODU) that looks like nothing else I've seen. I've eaten at dozens of resturants that blow away your "amazing hamburger from Austin." I mean, you really don't think we have anything like that here? As I said before, you have to make the effort. Try the Coastal Grill, Vintage Kitchen, Todd Jurich's, Pasta E Pani.

Oh, I know, you're still eating your wings at Hooters.

{Standing up and cheering for Sky06} Yes, let's get back on topic. Sky06 sounds like the kind of person we'd enjoy a meal with at VK or TJ's Bistro in downtown Norfolk. Love 'em! But, we like Hooter's wings, too, or, better yet, a great locally-owned place with their own special recipe, Amazin' Wings inside the Greenbrier Mall, Chesapeake. How did we find them? The owner emailed my better half after reading a quote from him online that he was a wings nut. Now, that's creative marketing/social media at its best! His picture's even on the wall there now.

[cpeakesqr]

You know, I thought this site was about construction projects, not a forum for criticizing every fricking thing you can think of. What makes me laugh is that everyone in this town who criticizes something thinks they are the exception. I got news for you: If you're here, you're part of the problem.

I find these accusations nothing more than stupid, uninformed exaggerations. Uninformed because those who make them will never be caught dead at an art gallery (their kind of place is Hooters), a classical concert (they probably listen to Bob FM), or a fine resturant (Hardees is more their style). Why? Because they are too cheap to try something better. And because they're too cheap, they just adopt the belief that these places don't exist. Kind of let's them off the hook for their cheapness, doesn't it?

The local art scene is very strong. (At least, that's what the NY Times and other outside publications tell us. Of couse, the Pilot could always be smarter than the Times, but I kind of doubt it.) I just heard a local woman sing a set of Italian arias with a passion no person lacking in creativity could ever accomplish. I just bought some art work from a local artist (a Phillipino woman who gratuated from ODU) that looks like nothing else I've seen. I've eaten at dozens of resturants that blow away your "amazing hamburger from Austin." I mean, you really don't think we have anything like that here? As I said before, you have to make the effort. Try the Coastal Grill, Vintage Kitchen, Todd Jurich's, Pasta E Pani.

Oh, I know, you're still eating your wings at Hooters.

I think your post is a bit misguided. Creativity isn't linked to monetary values or high tastes, and to insinuate that those who are critical are somehow cheap is "stupid and uninformed".

[scm]

I've eaten at dozens of resturants that blow away your "amazing hamburger from Austin." I mean, you really don't think we have anything like that here? As I said before, you have to make the effort. Try the Coastal Grill, Vintage Kitchen, Todd Jurich's, Pasta E Pani. Oh, I know, you're still eating your wings at Hooters.

Well, in you defensive and myopic rush to an adhominen attack, you missed the point completely. The issue isn't whether or not there are some good restaurants here -- there are. (Actually, I prefer Terrapin to any place you mentioned. Ate there Tuesday night -- instead of wings at Hooters) The issue is, is there a critical mass here of people who value creativity? I suggest there isn't, and provided objective data. You, went right straight for the rhetorical gutter. The evidence is rampant -- look at the number of bright young people on this board who had to leave here to find rewarding work. Why didn't the hip-hop artists stay here and ply their trade? Why are there so few patents awarded here? Where are the eccentrics that populate creative places like Austin, Raleigh, etc.? And on and on.

The only path to improvement in any endeavor is to be willing to take a searching and fearless inventory. I would suggest an unwillingness to do that is a form of "moral courage cheapness".

[vdogg]

I deleted the last couple of posts as it was clear that this discussion had devolved into a bickering match. Lets try to keep this debate civil and at an adult level. While I only deleted those posts that clearly crossed the line some of the posts left have the potential to reignite the same fight so let me just address this issue now. We should all, and yes i'm including myself here, try a bit harder to steer clear of sweeping generalizations about a particular group or region. Everyone does it from time to time but in the end it serves no real purpose and doing so doesn't really foster the level of discourse that we strive for on this forum. That said, disagreements will happen and are supposed to, otherwise this place would stay pretty boring. Lets make sure, however, that when we do disagree it is done so in a civil manner and is not a personal attack. Attack the point not the person.

[Telmnstr]

Norfolk's Bill Reid, the brains behind NORVA, is a major reason Richmond has blossomed in the music scene. He bought and rejuvenated the National into the popular music venue it is today and revitalized downtown in the bargain. Norfolk is an enviable city for those appreciative of the arts -- performing and otherwise. Chrysler ranks high in the art museum category, and your symphony has played Canegie Hall. The Richmond Symphony hasn't gotten there yet.

Hey does anyone know the full story behind the Norva? A friend of a friend knows one of the early business partners, and supposedly the others or the lead screwed him out of $$ or something. It sounded really nasty. I'd love to hear the gossip behind it.

(Don't get me wrong, I dig the Norva. I've seen acts like VNV Nation, Crystal Method, Paul Oakenfold, etc).

At least one of the shows was GROSSLY mis-advertised and I felt like they ripped off the crowd (that was BT aka Bryan Taylor).

Also both Oakenfold and Bryan Taylor had mention in the ads of over $300K in lights being used, and neither had hardware like that.

[Telmnstr]

Well, in you defensive and myopic rush to an adhominen attack, you missed the point completely. The issue isn't whether or not there are some good restaurants here -- there are. (Actually, I prefer Terrapin to any place you mentioned. Ate there Tuesday night -- instead of wings at Hooters) The issue is, is there a critical mass here of people who value creativity? I suggest there isn't, and provided objective data. You, went right straight for the rhetorical gutter. The evidence is rampant -- look at the number of bright young people on this board who had to leave here to find rewarding work. Why didn't the hip-hop artists stay here and ply their trade? Why are there so few patents awarded here? Where are the eccentrics that populate creative places like Austin, Raleigh, etc.? And on and on.

The only path to improvement in any endeavor is to be willing to take a searching and fearless inventory. I would suggest an unwillingness to do that is a form of "moral courage cheapness".

I wasn't at all impressed with the service we got at Todd Jurichs, and I've seen others say the same. Not a fan.

In terms of creativity... yea this area is funky. Look no further than the Boots Riley / Galactic stupidity.

The rap guys still live here, but with their huge moneys some own houses elsewhere. Pharrel has a place in Miami, I think Missy has a spot in NYC. At some point it will start to limit your career. Just like technology happens in Silicon Valley, and some of the VCs think you have to be in the Valley to succeed, I'm sure the same thing happens in the music industry.

[Telmnstr]

Okay, let's rap about the deArt center. That is the Selden Arcade building.

What's your thought?

A friend said to me "It's mostly wives of wealthy ghent people who go there to hang out all day... not really an art center like other cities have."

I know I looked into the empty space that is across from Yorgo's and they said they would be looking for 18$/sqft to rent the space. Which is uh... yea, approaching class A office space prices. I've seen people on craigslist trying to sublet space for art stuff, and I've talked to them in the past and saw that the money they had available wasn't going to go far. The whole starving artist thing.

I know everyone is betting on the convention center / hotel to make that area take off.

A young local artist came to a few of our 2600 meetings and it was very interesting talking to him, because he seemed to have a good grasp on the art scene. He did say that another local artist had recently relocated to NYC and someone recently bought one of that guy's pieces for $100K. Yowsers.

[URBbum]

Okay, let's rap about the deArt center. That is the Selden Arcade building.

What's your thought?

A friend said to me "It's mostly wives of wealthy ghent people who go there to hang out all day... not really an art center like other cities have."

I looked around awhile back, but I didn't see any "Ghent" people hanging out, but I was in there on a Saturday around noon time. The artists are real nice and will talk to you about anything, they all seemed real eager to talk about anything. I mostly saw people coming in out from the heat; not buying, not getting ideas, just looking for the sake of looking.

The rent at D'Art Center is discounted in return for artists' "office hours" you watch them produce it they get affordable rent.

Most of the artists I spoke to were locals that left and came back for reason or another. I didn't see any artists "pushing the envelope" except for one artists, but I couldn't speak to him.

D'Egg is a pretty good spot I'm told for a quick bite if you'll be downtown to start the day.

[Padman]

There may be an unmentioned factor at work producing such a conservative arts scene in Hampton Roads. Many persons who participate in the avant garde scene are financially independent, or relatively so. Our region doesn't produce many of the 'idle rich' because we don't have a lot of corporate wealth, royalty or old money. Many musicians and artists here must work for a living, so they end up playing in bars and retaurants for largely working class audiences. Nothing is wrong with that in and of itself.

The orchestras and other performing groups must watch their profit margins, so they try to appeal to as large an audience as they can. Rob Cross did have more modern classical music (and other unusual things) in the early going of the Virginia Arts Festival, but found that such acts did not appeal to the general public. He had to re-assess the programming choices for the festival.

I guess it's up to us to identify and to promote new and unusual music and art. Let's try to do more than simply point out this cultural weakness, or worse, deny that it exists. Port Folio was doing a pretty good job for a while on the local jazz scene, and this made me more aware of the polyrhythmic work that Jae Sinnett was developing. I'm sure that other worthwhile things are happening, too. They just need to be better identified.

[cpeakesqr]

There may be an unmentioned factor at work producing such a conservative arts scene in Hampton Roads. Many persons who participate in the avant garde scene are financially independent, or relatively so. Our region doesn't produce many of the 'idle rich' because we don't have a lot of corporate wealth, royalty or old money. Many musicians and artists here must work for a living, so they end up playing in bars and retaurants for largely working class audiences. Nothing is wrong with that in and of itself.

The orchestras and other performing groups must watch their profit margins, so they try to appeal to as large an audience as they can. Rob Cross did have more modern classical music (and other unusual things) in the early going of the Virginia Arts Festival, but found that such acts did not appeal to the general public. He had to re-assess the programming choices for the festival.

I guess it's up to us to identify and to promote new and unusual music and art. Let's try to do more than simply point out this cultural weakness, or worse, deny that it exists. Port Folio was doing a pretty good job for a while on the local jazz scene, and this made me more aware of the polyrhythmic work that Jae Sinnett was developing. I'm sure that other worthwhile things are happening, too. They just need to be better identified.

I think there's also a touristy/local art thing going on too that many don't ever move away from. My aunt, before she passed, was a local painter but all she painted was water scenes. And frankly if you had seen one, you had seen them all. It would be nice if local experimentally creative people had a place to showcase their talent (maybe Tel could create a virtual space) and a more receptive audience.

[Telmnstr]

I guess it's up to us to identify and to promote new and unusual music and art. Let's try to do more than simply point out this cultural weakness, or worse, deny that it exists. Port Folio was doing a pretty good job for a while on the local jazz scene, and this made me more aware of the polyrhythmic work that Jae Sinnett was developing. I'm sure that other worthwhile things are happening, too. They just need to be better identified.

Yea, a friend and myself set out to start a local music podcast... basically just a podcast that hilights local artists. I posted on craigslist a few times but got a pretty weak reply.

Back when I was trying to start the local music TV show, I had contacted at least 40 bands, and had talked to a few people that produced some videos. Later on I had lunch with someone who was interested in doing the same (oddly he found my posting on a Pilot Online blog about the lack of local public access TV). I gave him a full brain dump of everything I had learned (channel 13, channel 71 on Cox, two-peppers TV, etc). Not sure if he got far or not.

I had a new idea for the podcast though, so I might revisit it. I wanted to be quick and easy on it, and not spend a million hours a week producing it. Music music and uh, music.

[MissySchmidt]

I had a new idea for the podcast though, so I might revisit it. I wanted to be quick and easy on it, and not spend a million hours a week producing it. Music music and uh, music.

Be sure to include nationally renown B.J. Leiderman in anything "music" in Hampton Roads: http://bjleiderman.com/ .

Edited August 21, 2008 by MGBlankenship

[Telmnstr]

Be sure to include nationally renown B.J. Leiderman in anything "music" in Hampton Roads: http://bjleiderman.com/ .

Cool! Will check them out. I've got a neat idea on how to do things a bit differently on the podcast.

Now to get moving on it...

[mikeas]

Lots of events going on this weekend in Norfolk:

Friday:

Norfolk Admirals - Scope

Jerry Seinfeld - Chrysler Hall

Ronnie Baker Brooks - Attucks Theatre

Comedy Central Live: Gabriel Iglesias - Harrison Opera House

Jacks Mannequin - Norva

Around the World in 80 Days - Wells Theatre

Saturday:

Norfolk Admirals - Scope

Like Benny to Me - Chrysler Hall

Around the World in 80 Days - Wells Theatre

88-Keys / Kidz In The Hall - Norva

Music in Motion - Roper Theatre

Harlem Globetrotters - Ted

Sunday:

Around the World in 80 Days - Wells Theatre

Jay Z - Scope (This is pretty big... Scope is probably the smallest venue he has played in years)

Harlem Globetrotters - Ted

But there are other options as well...

D.L. Hughley is at the Funny Bone in VA Beach.

USA National Field Hockey Championships at the VB Convention Center.

Moscow Festival Ballet at the Ferguson Center in Newport News.

Arena Racing at Hampton Coliseum.

[jeffconn]

Always a fun time in Norfolk.

For those whose tastes run to college sports, ODU, Virginia Wesleyan, and Norfolk State all have home baseball games this weekend. Norfolk State has their "Spartan Clash" softball tourney, And Virginia Wesleyan's men and women play some lacrosse at home as well.

[varider]

That's a pretty nice list of weekend events for a city our size!

[PR Collaborative]

Hey everyone!

There's a FREE SCREENING of MARGIN CALL on Tuesday, November 1 at AMC Hampton Towne Center 24.

Margin Call focuses on a 24 hour period inside a wall street investment banking firm just before the financial meltdown. It's got an all-star cast and has been getting great reviews, so this is the perfect chance to see it (for free!) before it officially opens in Norfolk.

The screening starts at 7 pm and all seating is first come first serve, so if you're thinking about coming get there a few minutes early!

Please RSVP at

[mistermetaj]

Here's a new development in Ward's Corner. I am a very big fan:

Norfolk Collegiate Center for the Arts

It looks like a very nice design. I'm a fan.