Atlanta Beltline - Emerald Necklace

[Lady Celeste]

They argue that creating the Beltline because the parks, trails, and transit proposed in the idea would improve the city's quality of life greatly.

The AJC Article

Thank you for your post Jake.

Above I used a quote from your posting because I feel this is the paramount reason that the Beltline is so important. Parks and trails will be lures to people with children. While Atlanta's growth has been steadily increasing, most of this increase has been via singles. Familes with children will offer even more vitality to the city center. The Beltline will tie in so many parts of the city. Imagine a nice school near or next to the Beltline. Parents would be able to ride from Monroe to their children's school by Howell Mill, hope back on the Beltline, take it to Lindbergh Marta Station, ride to the Dunwoody station for shopping at Perimeter Mall and be back in time to pick up the little ones by schools end. All without ever having to drive. Once they get to the Monroe destination, the parent could then allow their children to play in the new greenspace created by the Beltline.

Okay.....sorry, I was dreaming.......but the Beltline would definitely help bring more families to the city center.

[ironchapman]

Hate to dampen the positive spirit about the Beltline that we've seen in recent days, but this article in the AJC offers a slightly more cynical, pessimistic look toward sthe idea because of recent developments with the people backing the proposal. The supporters and campaigners fro the plan are going to have to work extra hard to convince non-supporters now that many of the proposals details have emerged. The city elections in November only compliacte the issue.

Although I wouldn't worry too much about having supporters in elected offices being booted out this November. Most of atlanta's districts seem happy with their current represenative. Same goes for Mayor Frankli, who is still running without any major opposition.

Edited October 2, 2005 by ironchapman

[ironchapman]

According to this AJC Article, a national land conservation group is looking to spend &1 mil an acre to buy land for the etline in some places around Atlanta.

Right now, they are trying to buy 39 acres near North Avenue to create a new park. They are looking in several other places around Atlanta to buy some of the beltline's land so that other people won't buy it with conflicting interests in mind.

[ironchapman]

If memory serves me right, this seems like an appropriate place to post this.

According to recent AJC article, the city could support the financial cost of the Beltline. They say that the city could manage these costs for the next 30 years. By that time, the cirty would have hopefully paid off the money it borrowed to build the Beltline.

The city council is expected to vote on the subject on November 7th, the day before city elections. A shortage in the amount of information about the Beltline's financial impact is what has delaye3d the voted for so long.

The Aricle (From the AJC)

[Spartan]

The Beltline is such a great project becuase it encourages Transit Oriented Development (which means higher densities). Both of which Atlanta needs desparately.

[teshadoh]

Atlanta does need higher densities, but in the appropriate centers & corridors. Not all of the planned development locations are the best locations for higher density - but what is needed is greenspace. Which might be the greatest battle, there are two conflicting plans, one developed by Wayne Mason for his segment of the Beltline, and the other developed by greenway advocates which proposes a ring of parkspace.

There is still plenty of developable land in Downtown & Midtown in addition to the immediate corridors leading out of this central area. Developing higher densities in areas without transit (the Beltline isn't built yet nor for a long while) & which the street infrastructure is already near congestion levels is not smart growth. There are corridors that bisect the Beltline, which would be good locations for higher density, but the most recent plan at 10th & Monroe is a terrible location.

[ironchapman]

Atlanta does need higher densities, but in the appropriate centers & corridors. Not all of the planned development locations are the best locations for higher density - but what is needed is greenspace. Which might be the greatest battle, there are two conflicting plans, one developed by Wayne Mason for his segment of the Beltline, and the other developed by greenway advocates which proposes a ring of parkspace.

Which one of the plans do you think is better for Atlanta? What about for the Beltline to turn out according to the original vision?

BTW: I see you points about Atlanta needing the density and added greenspace.

The Beltline is such a great project becuase it encourages Transit Oriented Development (which means higher densities). Both of which Atlanta needs desparately.

Like teshadoh has mentioned, greenspace is another good benefit of the Beltline. Atlanta has one of the lowest percentages of greenspace in the nation when compared to city size.

Edited October 13, 2005 by ironchapman

[ryanmckibben]

I wrote the position paper on the beltline for the Midtown Neighbors Association, and I will repeat part of it here:

[Andrea]

What Ryan said. We need the greenspace of the Beltline desperately -- and ultimately we'll need it for a transportation corridor as well. But I'd like to see transportation initiatives such the Peachtree Streetcar prioritized. They're viable right now, with relatively modest legal and financial requirements.

[ironchapman]

I think the beltway should be developed like Manhattan's 9A West St. An at grade avenue with 3 lanes on each side with few intersections, dedicated pedestrian and bike lanes on each side, flowers and trees in the middle. But, also highrises on the side with ground level commercial. Where is this supposed to be anyway? I have never figured this out! Does anybody have a map?

It is supposed to surround Downtown and Midtown and a few nearby neighborhoods.

If you know your MARTA map here is the Beltline with the existing MARTA routes.

[Spartan]

Maps area here: http://www.beltlinepartnership.org/

Here is an overview map:

[ironchapman]

According to this article on the AJC the Beltloine's costs would not cause a significant drain on Atlanta's budget, or at least one significant enough for people to notice. If the financial impact is this low, then it wouldn't be necessary to increase taxes in the city to pay for the Beltline.

Also according to this article, taxpayers in Atlanta would also have an extra $276 million in costs to pay in order to pay for things like police and fire services, but the cost wouldn't be significant enough for them to really notice the drain.

Edited October 14, 2005 by ironchapman

[Lady Celeste]

To simply answer the question of the thread, yes I feel that the Beltline is worth it. I feel that the Beltline will be a longterm asset to Atlanta.

[ironchapman]

For what it's worth, here is an interesting analysis by the Los Angeles Times on the Beltline. It's got a few good tidbits on the history of not only the project but also the tracks as a whole. It also for a good outline about what exactly the project has to overcome before it is a definite yes.

Not much new, but I still think it's worth posting.

See the article

[Martinman]

For what it's worth, here is an interesting analysis by the Los Angeles Times on the Beltline. It's got a few good tidbits on the history of not only the project but also the tracks as a whole. It also for a good outline about what exactly the project has to overcome before it is a definite yes.

Not much new, but I still think it's worth posting.

I can't believe the Mason guy had the audacity to utter these words.

Keith Mason, Wayne Mason's son and a principal in his Northeast Atlanta Beltline Group, believes it is time for Atlanta to embrace density: "This is a watershed development for Atlanta," he said. "The question is: Do we grow up or do we grow out?"

[ironchapman]

^As if our (and hopefully many others') answer to that question isn't obvious already.

[Andrea]

^As if our (and hopefully many others') answer to that question isn't obvious already.

I hate to be a dumkopf but what is the answer? While I see a lot going on intown, the sprawl seems to continue unabated.

It makes me wonder if we're going to wind up as a conglomeration of increasingly sophisticated urban/suburban centers spread out all over the region. I saw an article somewhere the other day where the developers of Atlantic Station are proposing something similar for Roswell. I could see this happening elsewhere, too -- say, the Galleria, Perimeter Mall or Northpoint areas. Some people will elect to move inside the Perimeter, but there are zillions of jobs outside the Perimeter.

Thanks a lot for the link to that article, ironchapman. I thought it was one of the best summaries I've seen on the Beltline.

[ironchapman]

I hate to be a dumkopf but what is the answer? While I see a lot going on intown, the sprawl seems to continue unabated.

I was talking more about our personal opinions on the subject based upon what seems to be the general opinion on sprawl and uncontrolled outward growth here.

Oh, and you're welcome

Edited October 24, 2005 by ironchapman

[ironchapman]

Thanks a lot for the link to that article, ironchapman. I thought it was one of the best summaries I've seen on the Beltline.

The Seattle Times was pretty kind to us with their analysis of the Beltline, too. It seems like a pretty good analysis also, IMO.

It's good to see that the rest of the nation is picking up on the Beltline. I didn't think it was that well known.

[Andrea]

It's good to see that the rest of the nation is picking up on the Beltline. I didn't think it was that well known.

Yes, thanks again, IC.

Whatever happened to the driving/walking tour of the proposed Beltline route that used to be available on the old website? I spent several weekends covering it, mainly by bicycle and on foot, and it was absolutely fascinating to see where the line would actually run. There are many vistas, underpasses, overpasses and nooks and crannies which I would never have suspected even existed.

Maybe they took the tour down because there were too many weirdos like me crawling through the underbrush.

Edited October 31, 2005 by Andrea

[ryanmckibben]

I hate to be a dumkopf but what is the answer? While I see a lot going on intown, the sprawl seems to continue unabated.

One of my favorita quotes is from Winston Churchill, addressing parliament prior to the US entering WWII, he stated that "America can be counted on to do what's right, when all other options have been exhausted"

I personally believe that describes us pretty well.

The answer to your question is...when market forces make the suburban lifestyle economically unfeasable. Most experts will agree that without the enormous subsidies that suburban dwellers enjoy, the suburban way of life, as we know it, is ultimately unsustainable. The efficiencies in an urban develpoment pattern will gradually become the norm as energy prices continue to rise and as road congestion continues to worsen (2 million more people expected in the next 20 years...has anyone heard of any new highways being built?). Unfortunately, I believe our economy, which is almost completely dependant on the building, furninshing, and maintanance of suburbia, will not fare very well in the coming years as the waves of bankruptcies and foreclosures skyrocket when the already financially stretched suburbanite is forced to fuel his/her large SUV with gas that will appraoch $4-5 per gallon and heat/cool their McMansion with energy that will reach almost double what we pay for energy today.

Welcome to the future..everybody thank your politicians for being so shortsighted.

[ironchapman]

I saw this in the paper this,morning, so I figured I'd post it:

Council urged to Approve Beltline (AJC)

It says that members of the council will be feeling strong pressure from residents around the city to approve the Beltline.

I bet there'll be many an unhappy Atlantan, should this thing not be approved. Luckily, I'm pretty sure it'll pass.

[teshadoh]

^ Actually ironchapman, there will be many an unhappy Atlantan if it IS approved. I do in fact support this measure, but many Atlantans are indeed in opposition of this plan, which I admit I can understand - it is risky.

But with ADA's highly-political decision to arbitrarily expand the development zones to non-Beltline areas, it will likely pass.

[ironchapman]

^I know, teshadoh, I've seen articles opposing the Beltline, too. I know their viewpoints. I was just trying to keep with the optimism of the article.

[teshadoh]

^ Ah, well ok then, optimism & enthusiasm is cool.

But there are still 2 more hurdles, School Board & Fulton County.