Atlanta Beltline - Emerald Necklace

[ryanmckibben]

There are numerous hurdles, only two of which are Fulton county and APS. The two main hurdles seem to be that some sections of the rail line are still in use by frieght trains, as a matter of fact there are 2 railyards that the current owners don't really seem to be in a hurry to sell, the second hurdle is the engineering of the project. There are numerous grade seperation issues that may end up killing the current proposal unless the engineers can find a way to make rail work on grade changes that steep. Michael Dobbins, the former Planning Commish fot ATL recently published a position paper questioning the need for this project. I've known Michael for a couple of years now and he has some extremely valid concerns. Some of which I share.

Anuway, I don't mean to be a party pooper, but in the euphoria that is the Beltline, we really do need to take a step back and look at the details before we commit the city to spending $2 billion (yes BILLION) on this project.

[Martinman]

Mayor takes wheel of trolley project AJC

"Business and community leaders trying to get streetcars rolling on Peachtree Street are ready to steer the project to the next phase.

The Atlanta Streetcar's board of directors meets for the last time today to turn over the effort to Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin, who is expected to announce a plan to move the project forward as part of a larger economic development initiative.

"To the best of my knowledge, Mayor Franklin doesn't take on projects that don't get done," Robison said."

[Andrea]

Mayor takes wheel of trolley project AJC

"Business and community leaders trying to get streetcars rolling on Peachtree Street are ready to steer the project to the next phase.

The Atlanta Streetcar's board of directors meets for the last time today to turn over the effort to Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin, who is expected to announce a plan to move the project forward as part of a larger economic development initiative.

"To the best of my knowledge, Mayor Franklin doesn't take on projects that don't get done," Robison said."

This seems like a very viable project. According to the article, "the proposed two-line Atlanta network would cost up to $335 million to build." That's certainly not chicken feed but it's a fraction of the cost of the Beltline, and still far less than the many project which are under construction now. If they went ahead and installed the Streetcar and people began using it, I can see how it would really supercharge the completion of the Beltline system.

[ironchapman]

Just out of curiousity, how will a streetcar affect Peachtree Street traffic?

[Martinman]

Streetcar could be built in 3 to 4 years Atlanta Business Chronicle

A streetcar could be up and running along Peachtree Street and around downtown by the end of Mayor Shirley Franklin's second term, according to Tom Bell, president and CEO of Cousins Properties Inc. (NYSE: CUZ) and co-chair of the new public-private partnership that will coordinate the project.

[ironchapman]

That would really add a feather in her hat. It would be an especuially good way to end a second term

[Andrea]

From today's AJC: Franklin unveils big plans for Peachtree Corridor

Atlanta's signature Peachtree corridor may soon be reborn as a vibrant, walkable showpiece where gleaming office buildings, condominiums, museums and shops would be linked by streetcars rolling down the spine.

Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin on Monday announced a sweeping effort to retool the corridor by attracting new development and establishing a unified, pedestrian-friendly urban design.

[Martinman]

This is an interesting observation:

Mr. Bell, who is certainly in a position to know and to do something about it, makes it sound like he expects this project to be privately funded. If that's the case, I can see how it could get up and running pretty quickly.

That was the original ideaby the Streetcar group which would have it up and running a lot faster.

[orulz]

New story in the AJC about the beltline today. Wayne Mason has upped his offer to donate 2/3 of his land to the beltline, but only in exchange for zoning the land as he wants it to be zoned. Sounds like things are starting to come to a head in the northeast quadrant of the beltline.

I'm really glad that Mason sees the potential for success here, but he seems dead-set on being the one to dictate the terms of the deal since he got the "jump" on the city by buying the corridor first. He still wants to build the condo towers near Piedmont Park, which is OK in principle I suppose, but at the very least I hope he redesigns them to be less of a "wall". Seriously, the renderings he has released are WAY too wide.

He has upped his offering to a corridor that averages 46 feet wide, though it narrows down to 32 feet where his consultants say a single-track transit line will do. GADOT wants a 65-foot corridor so Amtrak trains can run to the MMTC; the beltline committee wants 50 feet for double tracks, a trail, and green space.

With so many different groups making such different demands, someone really needs to step up and take charge to sort this thing out before the bickering gets out of control.

[Andrea]

He still wants to build the condo towers near Piedmont Park, which is OK in principle I suppose, but at the very least I hope he redesigns them to be less of a "wall". Seriously, the renderings he has released are WAY too wide.

I don't entirely understand the objection to building residential highrises near the Park, although I can certainly appreciate the fact that the current designs could stand some major tweaking.

I should probably stay out of this since I don't live adjacent to Piedmont Park, although I am a resident of Atlanta and do use the park quite a lot. My views may also be influenced by the fact that I live on a street that already has highrises all over the place, with quite a few more coming out of the ground soon. If you can control the traffic, the construction hassles and the impact on infrastructure and systems, they are not all bad. Ansley Park is another good example of this. The houses on Peachtree Circle share the same service alley with the highrises on Peachtree, yet they are stately and serene.

[orulz]

I don't even live in Atlanta so I have less personal stake in this than you, and I've only visited Piedmont Park perhaps twice in my life (well, more if you count the Botanical Gardens.) But I have to say that the renderings of those 38/39 story buildings that Mason proposed just struck me as wrong on multiple levels.

They were tall, but their width made them look squat and unsettling. They were so wide that it was as if the developers were trying to segregate as much of the park from the public domain as possible, or at least claim a big chunk of it as a "backyard" for the towers. The buildings were like two cheeks of a giant fat buttocks, mooning the nearby neighborhoods and the park simultaneously. If Mason wants to go tall at Piedmont Park, his buildings should at least be attractive, well-proportioned, and not intentionally obtrusive. And they should be built AFTER the transit line.

I hope Mason doesn't intend to hold the beltline hostage. I doubt it, because he stands to profit handsomely from its success, but reading the latest article this has the feel of a "final offer." If negotiations come to an impasse and the city resorts to eminent domain, you can bet that Mason has the money and the legal team to hold the process up in court indefinitely.

If that happens, say "bye bye beltline!"

[Mike D]

That was the original ideaby the Streetcar group which would have it up and running a lot faster.

I hope they get going on the streetcar soon. Glad to hear that the Mayor is supporting it too. I hope they can get private funding for the route to speed up construction on it.

[Martinman]

I don't even live in Atlanta so I have less personal stake in this than you, and I've only visited Piedmont Park perhaps twice in my life (well, more if you count the Botanical Gardens.) But I have to say that the renderings of those 38/39 story buildings that Mason proposed just struck me as wrong on multiple levels.

They were tall, but their width made them look squat and unsettling. They were so wide that it was as if the developers were trying to segregate as much of the park from the public domain as possible, or at least claim a big chunk of it as a "backyard" for the towers. The buildings were like two cheeks of a giant fat buttocks, mooning the nearby neighborhoods and the park simultaneously. If Mason wants to go tall at Piedmont Park, his buildings should at least be attractive, well-proportioned, and not intentionally obtrusive. And they should be built AFTER the transit line.

I hope Mason doesn't intend to hold the beltline hostage. I doubt it, because he stands to profit handsomely from its success, but reading the latest article this has the feel of a "final offer." If negotiations come to an impasse and the city resorts to eminent domain, you can bet that Mason has the money and the legal team to hold the process up in court indefinitely.

If that happens, say "bye bye beltline!"

For one thing the buildings always were intended to be around 25 stories. The 38 and 39 numbers were initially used so that they could "compromise" with neighborhood opposition.

The next steps are for the county and the school board to approve the Tax district. Get through that and then we can find out what development guidlelines the mayor's task force has come up with. The beltline is extremely complicated with a lot of potential pitfalls. I wouldnt worry about one guy trying to kill it.

[Andrea]

The buildings were like two cheeks of a giant fat buttocks, mooning the nearby neighborhoods and the park simultaneously.

To me the sketches don't say "giant fat buttocks" so much as they say "Podunk Regional Hospital, 1977." The architect is The Preston Partnership, which has done cool residential buildings such as Spire, Ovation and Eclipse. Surely they can come up with something more exciting for a signature project such as the first building on the Beltline.

To me the scale doesn't look all that outrageous, they just don't have any sizzle at all.

[Martinman]

To me the sketches don't say "giant fat buttocks" so much as they say "Podunk Regional Hospital, 1977." The architect is The Preston Partnership, which has done cool residential buildings such as Spire, Ovation and Eclipse. Surely they can come up with something more exciting for a signature project such as the first building on the Beltline.

To me the scale doesn't look all that outrageous, they just don't have any sizzle at all.

I don't have a problem with the towers themselves. In fact I think they would actually look nice. It just a poor quality rendering. I do have a problem with the scale of them, on a sliver of land between a well established neighborhood and Atlanta crown jewel park. IMO having this huge wall in that these wide buildings will be in that location is completely unacceptable. I think a group well done of buildings, 10 stories at the most, would fit better and that is ONLY because of the transit which is several years away. If these were across the street from the park it would be no problem.

Its going to get real interesting to see how this all plays out but I just think its time to consider what is best for the city and its residents in the long run and come up with serious development guidelines to create the city that we want down the road.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Martinman

[Andrea]

... I just think its time to consider what is best for the city and its residents in the long run and come up with serious development guidelines to create the city that we want down the road.

I totally agree, Martinman.

Does my yellow arrow show where the TCR project is going? If so, it basically looks like they're talking about the gravel lot next to the Park Tavern. And would the buildings fill up the entire "building envelope" at that point?

One more thought, and this is pretty lame. I tried throwing the buildings into a Google image, and although my attempt to create perspective is pathetic, perhaps it gives some vague notion of what the project might look like on site. (If I even have the right area, which I'm not sure about at all).

Edited December 1, 2005 by Andrea

[Martinman]

I totally agree, Martinman.

Does my yellow arrow show where the TCR project is going? If so, it basically looks like they're talking about the gravel lot next to the Park Tavern. And would the buildings fill up the entire "building envelope" at that point?

I thought that was the TCR land in question but seeing like this makes it hard to imagine how it would even work with space for the trains. They would have to thin and extremely wide buildings. Now Im wondering if this is the exact location

[Andrea]

I thought that was the TCR land in question but seeing like this makes it hard to imagine how it would even work with space for the trains. They would have to thin and extremely wide buildings. Now Im wondering if this is the exact location

Yes, it certainly seems like it would be a pretty tight sqeeze. It's my understanding that the maximum width of the Beltline property is 200 feet. If you set aside 50 feet for transit, you're down to fairly skinny strip to build on, which I guess is why the developer is pushing so hard for highrise construction.

The overall size of that lot looks to me to be around 5 acres. However, the narrow configuration and the need to allow for a transit corridor makes it sort of problematical.

[ironchapman]

Today is yet another crucial day for the Atlanta Beltline. The Atlanta Board of Education will meet about the issue today for the first, and perhaps only time, as they could be voting on it tonight if all goes smoothly for them. The Fulton County Commission will be meeting about it this Wednesday.

ATLANTA WILL ABANDON THIS PROJECT IF EITHER ONE DOES NOT VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT!!!

Even worse, I have heard rumors that one of the boards won

Edited December 12, 2005 by ironchapman

[ironchapman]

Great news for the Beltline! The School borad has voted unanimously to approve it!

See AJC Article

Now for the Fulton County Commission

[UrbanAtl]

Two down and one to go! Way to go school board!

[ironchapman]

So, is there a good chance the county commission will pass it? ( isure hope there is)

[Andrea]

So, is there a good chance the county commission will pass it? ( isure hope there is)

If our dadgum local government can't approve a project as fabulous as the Beltline I may just give up and move to New York, NY, or Boston, MA.

[UrbanAtl]

Too close for comfort today. The County Commission's seven members voted today on the Beltline. One member was missing and the other six came up tied, three for and three against. They are going to revote next Wednesday.

[Student]

Could someone list the reasons why someone would be against the beltline.