Brikyaat Development Project

[GRDadof3]

Firms contracted for Brikyaat Development

Maybe someone here can expound on this a little. East Fulton and the Farmer's Market make for a great neighborhood center. I'd especially like to see Gilmore put some plans together (or sell the lot).

edit: Gilmore's lot is outside of this area.

[twoshort]

Yo, Ted!

[PBJ]

Yo, Ted!

Yeah

I'd imagine to be chosen there must have been a couple doodles on some paper of what they might do?

[MJLO]

my friend Mario owns Beat Goes On, Music store, out at Fulton and Diamond. I'll ask him if he knows anything.

[Nitro]

my friend Mario owns Beat Goes On, Music store, out at Fulton and Diamond. I'll ask him if he knows anything.

ARGHHHHHH!!!!!! Tell him to repaint that POS. What an obnoxious color scheme. It really detracts from the business district.

I hate looking at that building every day.

[snoogit]

ARGHHHHHH!!!!!! Tell him to repaint that POS. What an obnoxious color scheme. It really detracts from the business district.

I hate looking at that building every day.

Paint it red, green, and blue, and play this all day:

The song in question

[GRGridGirl]

I'll wait for Ted's response first.

-Vice President of the 1000 Block of the FSB

[GRguy]

I went to one of the planning sessions for this. The architects and planners submitted options that were a result of a charrette. The plans were way over reaching in their scope (i.e.: lets plow down 3-4 streets of houses so we can re-align some streets and we don't really like the lot sizes etc.). Verbal and mental masturbation. They want to increase retail on Fulton and possibly buy a street or two of houses adjacent to the market to expand it. What I did not get was why would you destroy streets of small, urban houses and replace them with a New Urbanist themed development? Huh? What the heck are they thinking?

The adjacent streets (i.e. Stormzand) would make a great small retail, quaint walking neighborhood and could use existing structures instead of filling landfills with debris. A wrong headed development, if you ask me, and the archs & planners got a ton of money to do this process as well. I would have done it for free and come up with a more viable, realistic plan.

[GRDadof3]

Was this study the result of the Zimmerman Volk report? I'll play devil's advocate and say that if the density is going to be increased in some of the neighborhood centers (as the report mentioned is possible), wouldn't it require demolition of at least some of the current housing stock? I'm not one for demolistion per se, but look at the Lighthouse property on Wealthy and some of those homes. I'd say it's worth it to take out those few for Lighthouse's project.

[Ted]

I went to one of the planning sessions for this. The architects and planners submitted options that were a result of a charrette. The plans were way over reaching in their scope (i.e.: lets plow down 3-4 streets of houses so we can re-align some streets and we don't really like the lot sizes etc.). Verbal and mental masturbation. They want to increase retail on Fulton and possibly buy a street or two of houses adjacent to the market to expand it. What I did not get was why would you destroy streets of small, urban houses and replace them with a New Urbanist themed development? Huh? What the heck are they thinking?

The adjacent streets (i.e. Stormzand) would make a great small retail, quaint walking neighborhood and could use existing structures instead of filling landfills with debris. A wrong headed development, if you ask me, and the archs & planners got a ton of money to do this process as well. I would have done it for free and come up with a more viable, realistic plan.

It is unfortunate that Mr. GRguy has chosen not to participate more fully in the planning process - including the neighborhood charrette. We have been working closely with the neighborhood stakeholders since September and the plan has and will continue to evolve - we believe - for the better. Additionally, we believe that the success of this planning process depends on gleaning as much input as we can from the neighborhood stakeholders - especially the constructively critical voices. Of course, we all know that it is much easier to write posts like this than to participate in a community planning effort.

It is also unfortunate that if Mr. GRguy felt that he could do the project better and cheaper than our team that he did not submit a proposal for the neighborhood's open RFP process. I'm certain that his proposal would have been fairly considered.

[Ted]

Was this study the result of the Zimmerman Volk report? I'll play devil's advocate and say that if the density is going to be increased in some of the neighborhood centers (as the report mentioned is possible), wouldn't it require demolition of at least some of the current housing stock? I'm not one for demolistion per se, but look at the Lighthouse property on Wealthy and some of those homes. I'd say it's worth it to take out those few for Lighthouse's project.

As I understand it, the initiative for commissioning this work came from the quick purchase and demolition of the land near the intersection of College and Michigan. The Neighborhood felt that it was unprepared for such an intervention and decided that they wanted their condsidered planning intentions to be public and known for the Brikyaat. We were awarded the job in a public RFP process in August of last year and have been working very hard since then to justify the Neighborhood's choice.

The demolition and density issues are real and difficult and are constantly being weighed by all involved. Ultimately, the Neighborhood is committed to maintaining a diverse and affordable housing stock. We believe that our plan will help them live up to that committment.

We are working towards a completion of the first phase of the planning process in the next few weeks. I will be happy to share the plan with the Planeteers after we present it to the Neighborhood.

Grid Girl, you have the floor.

[twoshort]

What is a brikyaat?

[Ted]

I'm told it's Dutch for Brickyard...

[GRDadof3]

The Brikyaat

This Quarter is one of two that bear a

name that honors Midtown

[Mark Miller]

I went to one of the planning sessions for this. The architects and planners submitted options that were a result of a charrette. The plans were way over reaching in their scope (i.e.: lets plow down 3-4 streets of houses so we can re-align some streets and we don't really like the lot sizes etc.). Verbal and mental masturbation. They want to increase retail on Fulton and possibly buy a street or two of houses adjacent to the market to expand it. What I did not get was why would you destroy streets of small, urban houses and replace them with a New Urbanist themed development? Huh? What the heck are they thinking?

The adjacent streets (i.e. Stormzand) would make a great small retail, quaint walking neighborhood and could use existing structures instead of filling landfills with debris. A wrong headed development, if you ask me, and the archs & planners got a ton of money to do this process as well. I would have done it for free and come up with a more viable, realistic plan.

To add to what Ted posted, this process is the result of neighborhood input and certainly not a group of architects and planners "theming" a development. The plan, as it is currently conceived, is the result of a process that began at the neighborhood input session / charrette in October. At this charrette, stakeholders created four different visions for what this area could become. They ranged from very grandiose schemes, in which much of the urban fabric was wiped out, to more realistic schemes that did incremental infill at select locations. There were many elements that were consistent in ALL four schemes. These included expansion of the farmer's market, increased mixed-use along Fulton, more green space and the preservation of single family residential within the Brikyatt neighborhood.

Upon completion of this charrette and these plans, the design team created the first of FOUR concept plans. Each time a plan was created it was presented to stakeholders for comments. Each subsequent plan took into account these comments and refinement of the plan took place. The design team has spent much time meeting with stakeholders in the process and each meeting garnered public input.

Every new iteration of the plan has been refined and has taken into account more of the existing stock of fabric. In fact, the most recent iteration refined the retail along Fulton, to more realistically reflect some buildings which were deemed important to the existing fabric. All this has been done, without doing an inventory of existing stock. The next phase of the project will include a detailed inventory of every building within the study area and the plan WILL be refined again to take these findings into account.

Contrary to what is inferred above, this has not been created in a vaccuum.

Up until now, there has been very little negative feedback. We have had an open public process from the very beginning and anyone who is interested in giving feedback is always welcome to. Although I know it is easier to sit back and ridicule from behind some remote computer station in safe anonymity.

As a card carrying New Urbanist, I find the remarks both somewhat offensive and certainly naive to both the process and the result. Have you even seen the plan? Have you really looked carefully at it? Do you understand it? This has nothing to do with New Urbanism and everything to do with neighborhoods. And neighborhoods, I should remind you, are the building blocks of urbanism.

Finally, the city of Grand Rapids has also provided input into this process and plan, and their feedback has been taken into account. Many of the things that are on the plan are the result of their positive feedback and suggestions.

One last thing, the RFP was a public invite. Mr. GRGuy, you could have submitted a proposal to do the work for free and maybe you really could have created a plan that was more realistic and viable. The design team is confident that they have done a very good job so far and we are also sure that our client and the neighborhood has gotten a product that they can be proud of. I am also quite confident, that our team is one of the best locally at what we are talking about here.

[GRDadof3]

Ted and GRTownPlanner, we'd love to see plans once you have them finalized

[gr49503]

I am very excited to see the final design for this neighborhood. I know that the creative team behind this project not only believes in urban renewal, they live it. They are all stewards for revitalizing the city and lets not forget, that is the goal of this forum.

[GRGridGirl]

Welcome to my neighborhood. I am proud to serve as the VP of the 1000 block of the Fountain Street beotches, otherwise known as the FSB

[Ted]

Rock on, Girl

[twoshort]

and we are also sure that our client and the neighborhood has gotten a product that they can be proud of. I am also quite confident, that our team is one of the best locally at what we are talking about here.

So are you Nederveld or Lott3Metz?

[PBJ]

WARNING SLIGHTLY

I haven't been at all involved with this project, nor do I live in this area, or do I work with any sort of developer BUT I wanted to say something. That is, I'm so glad we've seen an upshoot in membership lately for this reason, we're getting both sides of stuff. 6 months ago, a comment would've been dropped that this is "a waste of money" and nobody would have disagreed. I'm glad everyone is here and has different views. I also push people to tell friends AND ESPECIALLY CO-WORKERS/PEERS in the biz to join our forum so we can get a complete view of things.

/End Rant.

[GRDadof3]

One thing for sure is that with increased membership, you just never know who is looking on. I think this goes to show that we all need to show a little more respect for what others are trying to do, and to be civil about our disagreements.

[GRguy]

In light of Dadoff's anti-flaming request for this forum, I will not respond to Mr.Ted and Mr. GR Town Planner in an inflammitory manner. I would like to say that had I known about the charrette before hand, I would have been there. If you read my original post, I did not say that you were coming up with stuff by yourselves, but that it was the result of a charrette. I would love your thoughts on a couple of issues that this has brought up. Is knocking over blocks of low income housing (populated with many immigrants and members of minority communities) the best idea to improve this neighborhood? It was built for a similar socio-economic group 75-100 years ago and although the faces have changed, the situation has not. This is a great landing spot for those on the edge of the mainstream and stable enough to get them to their next step. Also, is it a "green" idea to knock over blocks of buildings and replace them with different building when adaptive re-use is an option? We have an unfortunate history in this town with bold ideas of knocking over neighborhoods to build the latest "thing" only to mourn our losses later when we realize what we lost. I would also question whether those most affected by this (the families in the housing) are fully aware of what is going on. My experience is that charrettes and neighborhood planning is typically done by those on the higher end of the economic spectrum and those just struggling to make it have little time or awareness of what all this means. But they are the ones most likely to be adversely affected.

And to Mr. GR Town Planner: Yes, I have seen the plans, can read plans and do understand plans. Thanks for your concern.

[GRDadof3]

In light of Dadoff's anti-flaming request for this forum, I will not respond to Mr.Ted and Mr. GR Town Planner in an inflammitory manner. I would like to say that had I known about the charrette before hand, I would have been there. If you read my original post, I did not say that you were coming up with stuff by yourselves, but that it was the result of a charrette. I would love your thoughts on a couple of issues that this has brought up. Is knocking over blocks of low income housing (populated with many immigrants and members of minority communities) the best idea to improve this neighborhood? It was built for a similar socio-economic group 75-100 years ago and although the faces have changed, the situation has not. This is a great landing spot for those on the edge of the mainstream and stable enough to get them to their next step. Also, is it a "green" idea to knock over blocks of buildings and replace them with different building when adaptive re-use is an option? We have an unfortunate history in this town with bold ideas of knocking over neighborhoods to build the latest "thing" only to mourn our losses later when we realize what we lost. I would also question whether those most affected by this (the families in the housing) are fully aware of what is going on. My experience is that charrettes and neighborhood planning is typically done by those on the higher end of the economic spectrum and those just struggling to make it have little time or awareness of what all this means. But they are the ones most likely to be adversely affected.

And to Mr. GR Town Planner: Yes, I have seen the plans, can read plans and do understand plans. Thanks for your concern.

Well, before the other guys reply, I just want to say that I know you've been contributing here for a long time (looks like you joined the day after me), and I figured your heart was in the right place. It just may have come across the wrong way. I'll remove myself from the discussion now.

[GRGridGirl]

......I would love your thoughts on a couple of issues that this has brought up. Is knocking over blocks of low income housing (populated with many immigrants and members of minority communities) the best idea to improve this neighborhood? It was built for a similar socio-economic group 75-100 years ago and although the faces have changed, the situation has not. This is a great landing spot for those on the edge of the mainstream and stable enough to get them to their next step. Also, is it a "green" idea to knock over blocks of buildings and replace them with different building when adaptive re-use is an option? We have an unfortunate history in this town with bold ideas of knocking over neighborhoods to build the latest "thing" only to mourn our losses later when we realize what we lost. I would also question whether those most affected by this (the families in the housing) are fully aware of what is going on. My experience is that charrettes and neighborhood planning is typically done by those on the higher end of the economic spectrum and those just struggling to make it have little time or awareness of what all this means. But they are the....

GRguy:

Your issues have all been brought up before and not only have they been addressed, they are the reasons why it is so important to lay a foundation for this plan. Without a plan, what do you think would happen? This topic, though brought up today, is not something that just happened today. Like I've said before, this has been a process & had you participated more, you would have your answers to your issues and you would see how the proposed plan has integrated a diverse mixed-income neighborhood and sustainable development practices, involving & encouraging feedback from all stakeholders. Even though I have participated in this process, I am nowhere near at a higher end of the economic spectrum, nor have I had a lot of time to spend "playing" charrette. I look forward to seeing you involved more in this process. We always need more people to join the choir that I am proud to be a part of...

-Caroline's Fountain