Baton Rouge Growth and Development

[dan326]

^Neat, so that's what's going up. I remember when that lake was under construction, it's definitely nice for an apartment complex.

[Mr. Burnham]

Some bad news: https://www.businessreport.com/business/louisiana-economic-development-stixis

[dan326]

2 hours ago, mr. bernham said:

Some bad news: https://www.businessreport.com/business/louisiana-economic-development-stixis

I read that article. I guess some things work out and some don't, hard to tell who's to "blame". A lot of times those business people can talk a good game to get money but can't deliver. Might have also been some sort of Jindal era corruption...

[Mr. Burnham]

4 hours ago, dan326 said:

I read that article. I guess some things work out and some don't, hard to tell who's to "blame". A lot of times those business people can talk a good game to get money but can't deliver. Might have also been some sort of Jindal era corruption...

But even IBM is under-performing targets. I don't think it can just be written off as "corruption". I think the real problem is that we are trying to attract jobs that our citizens are not trained to fill. The only way to fix that is to fix our education system and create a curriculum that encourages students to pursue careers in STEM fields. If companies know that the jobs they need to be filled can be filled by our citizens they will be more willing to invest and expand in our state. If those companies come, there will be opportunities for those students and an economic incentive for them to stay in Louisiana. It creates a cycle that strengthens and diversify's our states economy. 

[Antrell Williams]

But even IBM is under-performing targets. I don't think it can just be written off as "corruption". I think the real problem is that we are trying to attract jobs that our citizens are not trained to fill. The only way to fix that is to fix our education system and create a curriculum that encourages students to pursue careers in STEM fields. If companies know that the jobs they need to be filled can be filled by our citizens they will be more willing to invest and expand in our state. If those companies come, there will be opportunities for those students and an economic incentive for them to stay in Louisiana. It creates a cycle that strengthens and diversify's our states economy. 

I agree. I also think that corporate welfare is useless when you slash the education budget for a decade.

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[cajun]

Stixis is a much more narrowly focused company than IBM, which is actually obtaining local graduates.   They stopped trying when the "insourcing" model proved to be a failure.   Their company adjusted and no longer has a use anywhere near as many tech people in the US as originally planned.   

5 hours ago, Antrell Williams said:

I agree. I also think that corporate welfare is useless when you slash the education budget for a decade.

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Corporate welfare implies that they are getting something from taxpayers for nothing.   We need to distinguish between that and tax breaks for targeted industries.  There's a world of difference and news outlets like The Advocate and Business Report don't even bother trying to distinguish between the two.   

A lot of times, state or local government will offer tax credits companies to move to the area knowing that the additional income tax collected by the new jobs will offset the credit.  No jobs produced, no credit earned.   In those cases, I have no problem with the state aggressively pursuing employers - especially in places like Louisiana with a painfully stupid corporate tax code.   

If Baton Rouge wants to attract someone like Toyota, IBM, or Honeywell, the state would have to offer tax credits to sweeten the deal (in addition to infrastructure improvements around the proposed site).  There would be no corporate income to offset if the incentive was never offered, so it makes sense to use tax credits to pursue those companies.   Those employees end up living and consuming goods and services in the area and helping the local economy.   In the case of a major manufacturer (like Airbus in Mobile or Sasol in Lake Charles), the private infrastructure and investment will remain in the state long after their incentives expire.   The company also ends up dealing with suppliers and developing other local ancillary industry as well.   It makes sense to offer that - especially if the company wouldn't have relocated to the state in question without it.

What doesn't make sense to me was our film tax credits.  They were a credit for up to 30% of the total amount spent.   The problem is that companies that produce those films don't have a Louisiana income tax liability to offset, so they would sell their credits (which were based on $ invested, not job created) to other companies that do have a local tax liability.   Film companies usually don't own property in the place they are filming.  The production of a film doesn't require that they build a factory or develop an office in Louisiana with employees that will remain tied to that private investment.   The production talent and crew pick up and leave after the film is created.  They are usually not based in Louisiana and pay corporate taxes in New York or California.   The state essentially subsidized 30% of production in Louisiana - including pay for actors.   It was never able to parlay that into a permanent local film industry, so the value added to taxpayers outside of the industry (especially those not in New Orleans) is dubious.  

We also have examples where state and/or local governments actually take money out of their general fund to hand out to companies, non-profits, or local service providers in exchange for providing a service to taxpayers.   The value that these provide to taxpayers vary greatly and their importance to society is debatable.   These tend to be hotbeds of corruption and cronyism in a lot of places - although some actually do very good work more efficiently than state or local government can. Examples would include the Louisiana State Children's Museum, CATS, Council on Aging, some redevelopment authorities, and nearly all training hospitals.   

Another recent example of cut and dry corporate welfare was some of the recent state efforts to address the flood.   Connected entities set up companies that used state and federal tax dollars to gut flooded houses, move FEMA trailers, dredge rivers, and remove debris.   There will be a lot of these companies hauled in front of a judge in the near future.  A lot have been accused of overcharging and under performing.   The joke in Louisiana is that if you know the governor, you should start a construction company.   The mayor of Baton Rouge is being accused of providing lucrative "do nothing" contracts to her campaign contributors with the leftover windfall from federal BRAVE funds.   Aircraft and military contractors are often accused of taking advantage of corporate welfare because of repetitive, lucrative contracts to provide services or products to the federal government.  Many of those goods and services are considered classified and are only known in detail by the handful of congressmen that happen to be on the committee that approves those contracts.   Planned Parenthood is accused of taking taxpayer dollars and donating to political campaigns, which in return nets them more tax dollars.  

Then there is another aspect of this that I have issues with:  The dynamic between competition.   Companies like Volkswagen and Nissan get extensive tax credits to invest in Tennessee - but their domestic competitors that have been there for 35 years get nothing.   That's not entirely fair - especially since the older facilities that have been the source of employment for decades are in need of updates and repairs to remain competitive.  Why do some people focus on protecting funding for Planned Parenthood in particular and not for health care services in general?  Why can't other health care providers have a shot at those tax dollars?  

The right solution is corporate tax reform, and unfortunately that is politically impossible in Louisiana.   States with more favorable tax structures (Texas, Tennessee, etc.) get the investment, while states with a less favorable corporate tax structure (Louisiana) have to find other ways to be competitive.    I am hearing that corporate tax reform is going to be addressed on a federal level this year.   Louisiana needs to either reduce their corporate tax rates or provide unbeatable infrastructure in return for their high taxes.   Until then, politicians will pick winners and losers.   Sometimes they will pick wrong.  Sometimes they will make winners out of their friends.    

Edited August 10, 2017 by cajun

[Antrell Williams]

I'll have to reply when I have the time and the keyboard. Dammit Cajun.

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[cajun]

On 8/11/2017 at 4:50 PM, Antrell Williams said:

I'll have to reply when I have the time and the keyboard. Dammit Cajun.

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Sorry, dude.  Didn't mean to upset you.  

I am assuming most of us here are pro-development and pragmatic when it comes to things like this, at least when corruption isn't infecting everything. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by cajun

[fla_tiger]

It is unfortunate that Albemarle announced today they will be transferring another 200 office jobs from BR to NC, on top of those transfers announced last fall.

All for only $2M in incentives from NC over 12 years.

Didn't Louisiana provide them with $3.2M in Rapid Response Funds in 2010 when they relocated from Richmond promising to create 630 local jobs.

To better protect taxpayers against "money grabbers", if they do not currently, LED needs to include a contract requiring any company receiving public incentives to remain a set minimum 20 years., in addition to the other requirements.

Albemarle is nothing more than a prostitute....................Show me the money, I'll be there.

So sad.

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by fla_tiger

[richyb83]

On 8/14/2017 at 6:51 AM, cajun said:

Sorry, dude.  Didn't mean to upset you.  

I am assuming most of us here are pro-development and pragmatic when it comes to things like this, at least when corruption isn't infecting everything. 

I don't think you upset him...he was just frustrated he didn't have the time to reply to your quality post

 

 

32 minutes ago, fla_tiger said:

It is unfortunate that Albemarle announced today they will be transferring another 200 office jobs from BR to Tennessee, on top of those transfers announced last fall.

All for only $2M in incentives from Tennessee over 12 years.

Didn't Louisiana provide them with $3.2M in Rapid Response Funds in 2010 when they relocated from Richmond promising to create 630 local jobs.

To better protect taxpayers against "money grabbers", if they do not currently, LED needs to include a contract requiring any company receiving public incentives to remain a set minimum 20 years., in addition to the other requirements.

Albemarle is nothing more than a prostitute....................Show me the money, I'll be there.

So sad.

 

BR to Tennessee?? Thought it was  Charlotte NC?? Was thinking about posting this...been in the works a while...South Chase Tower going to be nearly 1/2 empty??   Don't like hearing this either; a blow to the state as well ....BR's (& other mid-sized cities)companies get big enough..then get cannibalized by larger cities...yep..prostituting sounds about right

https://www.businessreport.com/business/albemarles-exit-blow-louisiana

Edited August 15, 2017 by richyb83

[fla_tiger]

Thanks richyb83, corrected to read NC.  Got carried away there...................it was another one, Amedysis that grabbed the loot for Nashville.

[dan326]

Looks like we might get a TopGolf

https://www.businessreport.com/article/topgolf-asks-baton-rouge-rezone-site-potential-location

Tee time: Topgolf seeks rezoning for possible Baton Rouge location

Topgolf, a Dallas company that operates entertainment-focused driving ranges, is asking the East Baton Rouge Planning Commission to rezone the former Tinseltown site off Siegen Lane for a possible new location.

The facility would be a 55,000-square-foot, three-story building on a large plot of land at Siegen Lane Marketplace.The site was formerly occupied by Tinseltown until the movie theater closed and was demolished two years ago. The rezoning request is to allow Topgolf to sell alcohol, according to documents filed with the Planning Commission.

[cajun]

3 hours ago, dan326 said:

Looks like we might get a TopGolf

https://www.businessreport.com/article/topgolf-asks-baton-rouge-rezone-site-potential-location

Tee time: Topgolf seeks rezoning for possible Baton Rouge location

Topgolf, a Dallas company that operates entertainment-focused driving ranges, is asking the East Baton Rouge Planning Commission to rezone the former Tinseltown site off Siegen Lane for a possible new location.

The facility would be a 55,000-square-foot, three-story building on a large plot of land at Siegen Lane Marketplace.The site was formerly occupied by Tinseltown until the movie theater closed and was demolished two years ago. The rezoning request is to allow Topgolf to sell alcohol, according to documents filed with the Planning Commission.

They'll certainly have no shortage of business in that location.   Excellent choice.  

 

New Orleans is gonna be pissed.  

Edited September 1, 2017 by cajun

[richyb83]

It was only a matter of time...perfect location for Top Golf!  Tinseltown needed something special to replace it!   Glad they didn't build it in Gonzales

[Antrell Williams]

Went to the brand new one in Charlotte a few weeks ago, it was fun but I can definitely see them going out of business after some years and the fad wearing off. This would have been great when Tiger Woods was getting popular.

 

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[dan326]

^Lol, reminds me of the frozen yogurt thing.

I would like to see a really nice, heavily themed miniature golf course. I saw one in Florida once that was made up like a tropical island with a little waterfall.

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by dan326

[Mr. Burnham]

Really interesting article on NOLA. I agree with it...I'm already making plans to leave this state. It's just...too gone.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2017/09/lets_face_facts_louisiana_is_s.html#incart_2box

[dan326]

^ Yh, things are pretty sad. I don't keep up with politics but I don't think that's all entirely the issue. There so many ways to break this down but here's my take. I was just thinking about how this state became populated as opposed to say Texas or California. Probably mostly slaves, people looking to escape government surveillance and people just followings jobs.  Not saying these are bad people but just that you can only do so much with the human resources you have.  It's not politically correct but like someone said, if you don't acknowledge the real real issue then you can't fix it. I don't claim to know the real real issues but they probably lie beyond the boundary of political correctness.

 

edit: typos

Edited September 10, 2017 by dan326

[Mr. Burnham]

1 hour ago, dan326 said:

^ Yh, things are pretty sad. I don't keep up with politics but I don't think that's all entirely the issue. There so many ways to beat this down but here's my take. I was just thinking about how this state became populated as opposed to say Texas or California. Probably mostly slaves, people looking to escape government surveillance and people just followings jobs.  Not saying these are bad people but just that you can only do so much with the human resources you have.  It's not politically correct but like someone said, if you don't acknowledge the real real issue then you can't fix it. I don't claim to know the real real issues but they probably lie beyond the boundary of political correctness.

Eventually, all victims of oppression become active players in their own oppression. 

[Antrell Williams]

Yep. I'm moving to Denver come 2018.

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[dan326]

1 hour ago, Antrell Williams said:

Yep. I'm moving to Denver come 2018.

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Nice. You got a job out there?

[Antrell Williams]

No, not yet. But staying here is not an option. 

[richyb83]

Sorry to hear that Antrell...but understood.  Is there not enough opportunities here in BR?? Gotten  too stale?

Never been to Denver; but  seems like a cool place....What brings you there?? the Mountains; big city; Miles & Miles of  Walking  trails...the one along Cherry Creek looks impressive!   have a friend that moved to the SE Metro (Parker)....

Maybe you can start up a Denver thread her on UP??

Edited September 16, 2017 by richyb83

[Antrell Williams]

Definitely not enough opportunities for wanting to start a career in a field I'm interested in. I have 5 friends living there now so the overall economy and environment plus the support system already in place are too good to pass up. Maybe I will!

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[dan326]

^Uh huh, I understand that. It's definitely difficult getting a job here, I chalk my own job up to divine intervention, lol.