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Lenox Square/Phipps Plaza


Temeteron

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sorry to burst all your bubbles, but its one thing to be optimistic and realistic, and then another to be wildly throwing out dreams. considering its an urban planning forum, we tend to go for the optimistic within the realm of realism. As much as every city would love to have its own Rodeo Drive, Michigan Avenue, Newbury Street, Worth Avenue, etc. in many places its just not likely. Even with Midtown Mile, there are talks of can Atlanta really support this much upscale retail? I'm not sure. Phipps and Lenox currently have all the luxury retail in Atlanta, and Atlanta really isnt a market where it can support multiple LVs or Guccis.

I do think Midtown Mile will get a headstart in the right direction, but without some of these staple luxury stores to thrust it forward, I doubt it will really turn out to be the Rodeo/Wilshire/Robertson dream. But to go from having no haute couture houses to Christian Lacroix, Emanual Ungaro, Givenchy, Lanvin....is pushing it. We might as well dream that Zac Posen, Nanette Lepore, Christian Louboutin all open in Atlanta.

Of those listed, I can see D&G, Just Cavalli, not Carolina but CH Carolina open up in Lenox/Phipps.

Oh well, one can dream! But i like your suggestions.

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As of today May 14, 2007 Lenox Square officials have confirmed that Diesel, an upscale Italian jeans fashion house will be locating in the new Neiman Marcus level 2 wing. So far we have Sony Style, PUMA, True Religion, Diesel, Miss Sixty/Energy, Chanel, and Yves Saint Laurant

Edited by kennethdisraili
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  • 3 weeks later...

So I called around and I guess it is definitely going to happen - there will be a Belk at Phipps Plaza. Thanks a lot, Simon. If the rumors that Barney's is looking to open on the Midtown Mile become true, then I will feel a little bit better. At least we didn't waste a prime space.

In other Parisian/Belk news, the Northlake Mall Parisian and the Mall @ Stonecrest Parisian are both closing. The North Point Mall Parisian is moving into the old L&T space and reopening as Belk. All other Parisians will be converted to Belk.

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So I called around and I guess it is definitely going to happen - there will be a Belk at Phipps Plaza. Thanks a lot, Simon. If the rumors that Barney's is looking to open on the Midtown Mile become true, then I will feel a little bit better. At least we didn't waste a prime space.

In other Parisian/Belk news, the Northlake Mall Parisian and the Mall @ Stonecrest Parisian are both closing. The North Point Mall Parisian is moving into the old L&T space and reopening as Belk. All other Parisians will be converted to Belk.

It would be a HUGE coup if Midtown got Barney's but at this point I think they're much more likely to choose the Buckhead village. These next few years are going to be really interesting to see how all of this shakes out will the Midtown mile and Buckhead village courting top retailers not currently in the market.

Speaking of which I had heard that H&M was going to Atlantic Station and then I heard they would go into Lenox. Since neither of those seems to have happened I would think they're pretty much a given for the Midtown Mile.

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So I called around and I guess it is definitely going to happen - there will be a Belk at Phipps Plaza. Thanks a lot, Simon. If the rumors that Barney's is looking to open on the Midtown Mile become true, then I will feel a little bit better. At least we didn't waste a prime space.

In other Parisian/Belk news, the Northlake Mall Parisian and the Mall @ Stonecrest Parisian are both closing. The North Point Mall Parisian is moving into the old L&T space and reopening as Belk. All other Parisians will be converted to Belk.

Makes me wonder why Belk bought the Parisian chain (unless to just destroy a potential competitor) as so many of the stores are closing- the ones in South Carolina and now ones in Atlanta, and I'd guess some in Alabama. So sad to have lost Parisian when Belk could have just built its own stores in some key markets.

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I was under the impression that Belk was rebranding all Parisians. Then yesterday I was in the nail salon and I overheard this lady saying that the Northlake store would not be rebranded. This is from the manager per what I overheard. Maybe she misunderstood what she was told. I would have thought that Belk would be a better fit for Northlake rather than Phipps. In fact the Parisian at Phipps never really caught on. I guess when you consider that Lenox/Phipps recieve over 20,000,000 visits a year, for some department stores the exposure outweighs the actual sales/square foot profit.

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Yeah I think Belk would have done okay at Northlake too, but I called and they are definitely just closing down the Parisian - no conversion to a Belk. Makes me wonder about the future of Northlake.

A quick walk through Lenox the other day revealed that the newly-renovated plaza space where Micks used to be is becoming what looks to be an enormous American Eagle store. It looks like Simon is trying to shift retailers around so that the prime one-location stores are all on that main corridor and clustered around the Neiman Marcus wing. Apple and Limited/Bath and Body Works/Express are all currently closed and undergoing major renovations. Sony Style has opened down next to Lacoste.

Miss Sixty/Energie is at a prime corner. The new upper level wing of NM looks great - although I see no mention of Chanel or YSL. I do hope that they do indeed open.

The mall that always evolves - those of you that only go to Lenox a few times a year will see something different everytime you go!

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Yeah I think Belk would have done okay at Northlake too, but I called and they are definitely just closing down the Parisian - no conversion to a Belk. Makes me wonder about the future of Northlake.

A quick walk through Lenox the other day revealed that the newly-renovated plaza space where Micks used to be is becoming what looks to be an enormous American Eagle store. It looks like Simon is trying to shift retailers around so that the prime one-location stores are all on that main corridor and clustered around the Neiman Marcus wing. Apple and Limited/Bath and Body Works/Express are all currently closed and undergoing major renovations. Sony Style has opened down next to Lacoste.

Miss Sixty/Energie is at a prime corner. The new upper level wing of NM looks great - although I see no mention of Chanel or YSL. I do hope that they do indeed open.

The mall that always evolves - those of you that only go to Lenox a few times a year will see something different everytime you go!

The Chanel and YSL info. came from the manager of Giorgio Armani that stated he learned about it in a staff meeting with Simon Properties. Just fyi.

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Makes me wonder why Belk bought the Parisian chain (unless to just destroy a potential competitor) as so many of the stores are closing- the ones in South Carolina and now ones in Atlanta, and I'd guess some in Alabama. So sad to have lost Parisian when Belk could have just built its own stores in some key markets.
Belk bought Parisian for a chance at some great locations, but had to buy the whole chain to get the stores they wanted. It's a pretty common practice. Macy's just did the same thing. Edited by StevenRocks
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The Chanel and YSL info. came from the manager of Giorgio Armani that stated he learned about it in a staff meeting with Simon Properties. Just fyi.

The last time I visited Atlanta was in August 2005; that included a visit to Lenox Square. My opinion at that time was that the plaza area needed to be renovated. I did not know until I read this message that it was undergoing a renovation. Are they matching it up with the rest of the mall?

The plaza area looked like it had not been renovated since that expansion area opened in 1980, with the exception of the bottom level where the food court is located.

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Yes, Jeb1974 they are matching up the entire mall to look like the main mall area. You are right, the former Plaza Court area has not been renovated since it opened nor has the expansion wing that leads to the J.W. Marriott hotel, which is also being matched up. According to Simon Properties, all of these areas will recieve new lighting, skylights, handrails, flooring, and paint to match the main mall. Then Neiman Marcus took the Neiman Marcus court to add thier 52,000 sq. ft. expansion on all three levels, and then Simon added a second level on the Neiman Marcus wing. I hope that explains all of it for you.

Edited by kennethdisraili
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I was under the impression that Belk was rebranding all Parisians. Then yesterday I was in the nail salon and I overheard this lady saying that the Northlake store would not be rebranded. This is from the manager per what I overheard. Maybe she misunderstood what she was told. I would have thought that Belk would be a better fit for Northlake rather than Phipps. In fact the Parisian at Phipps never really caught on. I guess when you consider that Lenox/Phipps recieve over 20,000,000 visits a year, for some department stores the exposure outweighs the actual sales/square foot profit.

I also wondered why Belk bought out Parisian and unfortunately I don't believe it's for an upscale, just name recognition, at least here in the Orlando market. JCPenney is doing the same thing. They are building stand alone stores similar to Kohl's and all three stores are going in to those big outdoor "malls" that are being built, I really don't call these 1.5 million square feet centers "lifestyle centers" since they are being built by the big mall developers such as Simon. Many of them started out anchored by a Super Target and then after their success, these other three retailers have stepped in. Anyways, JCPenney's strategy is dash in, dash out at these stores during the week and the traditional large mall stores are for fun weekend family shopping with more merchandise available. Belk seems to be doing the same, people will come "in to the city" on the weekend and say "hey, let's see what this Big Belk has got." It's kind of strange as we develop the exburbs (which Orlando has got a lot of, it's the number one city for the worst urban sprawl) the former suburbs and downtown have become the city and their malls are being incorporated in to the true urban lifestyle centers, with the loft/condo living, upscale eateries and entertainment venues. A lot like your Buckhead, the old northern suburbs are a part of our city (mainly because Orlando has such a small city limits that to actually live in Orlando you have to live Downtown). There is Winter Park first which already has it's "Rodeo Drive" atmosphere, Park Avenue which used to be the center of high fashion here until the Mall at Millenia was built and then there is the Winter Park Village which used to be a mall and the neighborhood between the two is developing in to a true urban living center. Then next up the street is Maitland, which is building a beautiful new downtown with lots of condos and retail surrounding a popular park and lake for concerts and festivals, which Winter Park has also. Then next up the road is Uptown Altamonte which used to be a big suburban mall back in the day, they have attached the Uptown development to the mall with a huge street level center with high rise condos and and above the street condos and apartments and upscale eateries and theaters surrounding an already popular lake and park that has lots of festivals and concerts. It sounds like the ATL is doing the same thing basically and while we all are getting our big upscale retailers, Sony Style (already in Orlando), Gucci (here too) Ferragamo(here), etc, don't you think we should be developing our "own" designer stores? We've got a start here with swimwear (Everything But Water stores) and in Winter Park "Jacobson's" department store has returned and is now owned locally and Park Avenue is turning back to it's own local high end stores with a few national retailers in the mix. I would hope Atlanta is doing the same with it's new Buckhead and midtown developments. That is what would truly make us in to major fashion centers, like Miami has become over the past 20 years. Along with the nationals and international designers, we need our "own" designer shops that people from other major fashion centers would frequent when they come to town!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Theres a difference between fashion center and shopping center. Fashion would entail fashion houses, designer studios, runway shows, etc. Major shopping destination would be what you are referring to, yet considering that Atlanta has yet to be really in the top 10 markets in the US alone. Im not refuting that it is evolving. But I would guess to be a major market in the US alone, you would break top 10. It will be awhile before Atlanta does even that.

Atlanta made no. 9 in 2006/2005. The city is consistently in the top 20 and breaks the top 10 every few years or so. The cities that round out the top 10 are generally places lie Miami, Houston, etc. That data is specifically for retail markets. For "fashion center" it's NYC and NYC only. Despite claims from other cities to be "fashion centers" innovation and influence in fashion is more important than what kind of shops are there. Paris is the fashion capital of the world. There are many upscale boutiques that do not have a store in Paris.

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Atlanta made no. 9 in 2006/2005. The city is consistently in the top 20 and breaks the top 10 every few years or so. The cities that round out the top 10 are generally places lie Miami, Houston, etc. That data is specifically for retail markets. For "fashion center" it's NYC and NYC only. Despite claims from other cities to be "fashion centers" innovation and influence in fashion is more important than what kind of shops are there. Paris is the fashion capital of the world. There are many upscale boutiques that do not have a store in Paris.

Charlotte, you make a very good point and I'm glad Atlanta is in a retail revival. Now concerning Lenox Square all of the second level that is the new addition to the Neiman Marcus wing is being reserved for upscale luxury retailers, or at least Simon Properties are trying to lure them in. I think we will have to wait and see what happens in that regard.

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^ In that regard ,it was confirmned by a staffer that the new Ralph Laren boutique in the NM wing would be "three times as large(as the current location ) and would be on two levels"

OMG!!!!!!!, That is awesome news to hear, and a two level boutique, very incredible. And of course Ralph Lauren I'm sure will have a larger selection of his signature "Purple Label" line. Have you heard of any other retailers going in the new wing?

Edited by kennethdisraili
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i had always wondered why Lenox's Ralph Lauren was so small. Its time that it expanded. Though wondering how big the Ralph Lauren could possibly be, only 35,000 additional square footage added.

Atlanta made no. 9 in 2006/2005. The city is consistently in the top 20 and breaks the top 10 every few years or so. The cities that round out the top 10 are generally places lie Miami, Houston, etc. That data is specifically for retail markets. For "fashion center" it's NYC and NYC only. Despite claims from other cities to be "fashion centers" innovation and influence in fashion is more important than what kind of shops are there. Paris is the fashion capital of the world. There are many upscale boutiques that do not have a store in Paris.

Not sure what ranking would put Atlanta in the top 10, but yes, its definitely in the top 20, never disputed that. And no, LA is also a fashion center in the US.

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i had always wondered why Lenox's Ralph Lauren was so small. Its time that it expanded. Though wondering how big the Ralph Lauren could possibly be, only 35,000 additional square footage added.

Not sure what ranking would put Atlanta in the top 10, but yes, its definitely in the top 20, never disputed that. And no, LA is also a fashion center in the US.

I'm sure the ranking would probably be based on retail space square footage, or retail space square footage in the upscale market. There's no doubt that the ATL has some great shopping and is a big regional draw for the South (except for Central/South Florida.) But there is some competion coming on line quickly for Atlanta. Atlanta will eventually lose the Charlotte market and probably Raleigh/Durham. Nashville will probably start (or already has started) growing in upscale retail options. Unfortunately New Orleans is probably seeing a decline in upscale retail, but I believe tour-shoppers from NO will probably mainly head to Houston. When I lived in Dayton, Ohio, we travelled to Columbus for some of the "limited market" stores, like Pottery Barn or Williams Sonoma and Detroit, Atlanta or Chicago for the large upscale markets. Now Detroit and Chicago and Atlanta are losing tour-shoppers due to growing upscale retail in Columbus and Indianapolis. (And Cleveland, Pittsburgh to a smaller extent.)

I would also say that LA is a US fashion center as well as Miami. Miami has a fashion district and quite a few South American designer label shops. Upscale Latin fashion is huge in South Florida, just like the old episodes of Miami Vice, check out CSI Miami, there is always an insane number of people wearing pink shirts!

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