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Lenox Square/Phipps Plaza


Temeteron

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I'm sure the ranking would probably be based on retail space square footage, or retail space square footage in the upscale market. There's no doubt that the ATL has some great shopping and is a big regional draw for the South (except for Central/South Florida.) But there is some competion coming on line quickly for Atlanta. Atlanta will eventually lose the Charlotte market and probably Raleigh/Durham. Nashville will probably start (or already has started) growing in upscale retail options. Unfortunately New Orleans is probably seeing a decline in upscale retail, but I believe tour-shoppers from NO will probably mainly head to Houston. When I lived in Dayton, Ohio, we travelled to Columbus for some of the "limited market" stores, like Pottery Barn or Williams Sonoma and Detroit, Atlanta or Chicago for the large upscale markets. Now Detroit and Chicago and Atlanta are losing tour-shoppers due to growing upscale retail in Columbus and Indianapolis. (And Cleveland, Pittsburgh to a smaller extent.)

I would also say that LA is a US fashion center as well as Miami. Miami has a fashion district and quite a few South American designer label shops. Upscale Latin fashion is huge in South Florida, just like the old episodes of Miami Vice, check out CSI Miami, there is always an insane number of people wearing pink shirts!

I think Atlanta will be even more popular with fashion when all the developments get buit out within the next 5 years. THere are going to be a lot more tourist coming here and lets not forget Buckhead avenues and the street car system which will also help with tourist. People will probably shop in their local areas (Charlotte or Nashville) sometimes and when they want to really shop they'll come to Atlanta, which will help Atlanta establish itself or validate itself as a Fashion destination

Oh and if Atlanta isn't in the top 10 in the US, can somebody tell me what 9 cities or areas are ahead

Edited by SAV
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New York (Madison, 5th, SoHo)

LA (Rodeo, Wilshire, Melrose, SCP, Fashion Island, Beverly Center)

Chicago (Michigan and Oak Street)

Boston (Newbury, Copley, Prudential)

Miami/Palm Beach - Bal Harbour, Worth, Boca

Las Vegas (Wynn, Forum Shops, La Palazzo)

San Francisco (Union Square)

DC (Chevy Chase, Georgetown, Tysons)

Hawaii (Ala Moana, Waikiki, Wailea)

Dallas (NorthPark, Highland Park, Galleria, Woodbend)

Houston (Galleria)

Long Island (Syosset and Manhasset)

Northern Jersey (Short Hills, Bridgewater, Paramus)

Palm Springs (Cabazon)

Woodbury Commons

Rivaling markets:

Orlando (Mall at Millenia)

Philadelphia (KOP, Walnut) <--- might actually be listed in the top group

Top growing luxury markets:

San Jose (Santana, Stanford)

San Diego (Westfield)

Phoenix (Biltmore/Fashion Square)

San Antonio (La Cantera)

Austin (Domain)

Top group are metros with stronger retail presence, following are small markets with also strong retail presence, bottom are markets that are exploding in the luxury market with a large number of new boutiques opening each year.

But Atlanta is a very strong market and is still growing, but a little slower now. I think if Midtown Mile can live up to what its hoping to do, then it will help create a new growth spurt in the Atlanta market. However, as pointed out by metrowester, Atlanta's retail also depends a lot more on the neighboring states (NC, TN, SC) than the other markets listed. It will be interesting to see how Atlanta's stores perform now that GH and SP have a number of their own luxury tenants.

Edited by Manolos
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Manolos, speaking of the Forum Shopes in Las Vegas, I took a look at their directory of stores and it seems like they have more luxury retail than Bal Harbour and close to South Coast Plaza, plus they have the Winn Hotel shops that include a huge Louis Vuitton, Jean Paul Gaultier, and Oscar de La Renta I just assumed Las Vegas would have been higher up the list, I was suprised to see where it was. Since they have such a large affluent tourist base I always assumed they would rank 3rd or 4th. This was suprising news to hear.

Edited by kennethdisraili
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Yes, I agree that Paris is the undisputed fashion capital of the world. I'm excited about the Ralph Lauren addition! I'm going to have to plan on coming down to Atlanta very soon if that is indeed true.

I spoke with one of my good friends that is majoring in fashion design, and says that Paris is best for Haute Couture, whereas Milan is best for ready to wear.....

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Calvin Klein will be opening dozens of stores within this next year, planning to open at least 100 in the next 5 years. Among the first 5 Calvin Klein White Label stores to open will be at Lenox Square.

Manolos, that's good news to hear, but I'm not familiar with his "White Label". Is it upscale like Ralph Lauren's "Purple Label" or more middle class oreinted?

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Ok, to sum up everything, Sony Style and Miss Sixty/Energie have opened at Lenox. True Religion and Diesel are under construction. And Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, and Zara will also be opening up boutiques at Lenox. Phipps used to have a Bottega Veneta, but it closed due to lack of sales, and also Dolce & Gabbana had a boutique but closed for the same reason citing that Atlanta wasn't large enough yet for them. But I think thier bridge line D&G might do well. Since the GAP closed at Phipps the entire left side on the second level past Sisley Paris is vacant all the way down to Parisian, soon to be a "Flagship" Belk, like the one at SP in Charlotte. It will be very interesting to see how the well heeled shoppers at Phipps will accept a more upscale Belk. Special thanks to Manolos for providing this incitful information. :thumbsup:

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OT: L.A. lacks influence within the industry. It's still considered an up and coming fashion city even by those in L.A. Despite their efforts, when the world thinks "fashion" they don't think "L.A."

Retail rankings are done by a number of different firms. The rankings are based on varying criteria. Available retail space tends to be the most common criteria. Seattle tends to be a top choice for that reason. Retail rankings are based not on what IS there, but on actual potential. You can research this yourself. Google helps.

Paris receives the honor of fashion center/capital because of tradition and Frabce's ability to certify couture.

Now I'll stop before a mod slaps my hand. :)

Thanks for the updates on Lenox. Maybe one day I'll go there again. :(

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OT: L.A. lacks influence within the industry. It's still considered an up and coming fashion city even by those in L.A. Despite their efforts, when the world thinks "fashion" they don't think "L.A."

Retail rankings are done by a number of different firms. The rankings are based on varying criteria. Available retail space tends to be the most common criteria. Seattle tends to be a top choice for that reason. Retail rankings are based not on what IS there, but on actual potential. You can research this yourself. Google helps.

Paris receives the honor of fashion center/capital because of tradition and Frabce's ability to certify couture.

Now I'll stop before a mod slaps my hand. :)

Thanks for the updates on Lenox. Maybe one day I'll go there again. :(

Um, not sure where you are from, but yes, many fashion forward people consider LA a HIGHLY influential city in fashion. Perhaps not haute couture, but definitely contemporary wear that is growing more and more popular around the country. Whether that be denim like True Religion, Citizens, Sevens, casual wear like Juicy Couture, Ella Moss, or more formal like Max Azria, Uriel Saenz, Bijan, Nanette Lepore, Charles David, St. John.

Moreover, LA is probably the most influential in regards to contemporary fashion in the US, contributing to the international popularity of UGGs, velour, John Deere, Von Dutch etc. Kitson and Fred Segal remain as two of the most famous clothing boutiques.

Dozens of international designers choose to open their first American boutiques in LA. What better exposure than celebrities and red carpet events?

Moreover, yes, many retail rankings are done by "square footage of current retail space." None of these rankings ever claim these cities are "fashion centers" of the US. Otherwise, Phoenix would be at the top of this list.

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I'm not sure where she is from either, but anyway there is a Juicy Couture, and Versace's bridge line Versace Jeans Couture in Phipps Plaza, and in Lenox we have Miss Sixty (open) and True Religion (under construction)

I was wondering are all of these about the same price point or are there differences being one is more upscale than the other or finally which one might be considered just middle income?

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I was wondering are all of these about the same price point or are there differences being one is more upscale than the other or finally which one might be considered just middle income?
Most of the lines mentioned are comparable, with Juicy Couture coming in a little less upscale than the others.
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Most of the lines mentioned are comparable, with Juicy Couture coming in a little less upscale than the others.

I forgot at Lenox to mention Diesel (under construction) and to mention the jeans under the Gianni Versace label and of course the bridge line Versace Jeans Couture has already been discussed.

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New York (Madison, 5th, SoHo)

LA (Rodeo, Wilshire, Melrose, SCP, Fashion Island, Beverly Center)

Chicago (Michigan and Oak Street)

Boston (Newbury, Copley, Prudential)

Miami/Palm Beach - Bal Harbour, Worth, Boca

Las Vegas (Wynn, Forum Shops, La Palazzo)

San Francisco (Union Square)

DC (Chevy Chase, Georgetown, Tysons)

Hawaii (Ala Moana, Waikiki, Wailea)

Dallas (NorthPark, Highland Park, Galleria, Woodbend)

Houston (Galleria)

Long Island (Syosset and Manhasset)

Northern Jersey (Short Hills, Bridgewater, Paramus)

Palm Springs (Cabazon)

Woodbury Commons

Rivaling markets:

Orlando (Mall at Millenia)

Philadelphia (KOP, Walnut) <--- might actually be listed in the top group

Top growing luxury markets:

San Jose (Santana, Stanford)

San Diego (Westfield)

Phoenix (Biltmore/Fashion Square)

San Antonio (La Cantera)

Austin (Domain)

Top group are metros with stronger retail presence, following are small markets with also strong retail presence, bottom are markets that are exploding in the luxury market with a large number of new boutiques opening each year.

But Atlanta is a very strong market and is still growing, but a little slower now. I think if Midtown Mile can live up to what its hoping to do, then it will help create a new growth spurt in the Atlanta market. However, as pointed out by metrowester, Atlanta's retail also depends a lot more on the neighboring states (NC, TN, SC) than the other markets listed. It will be interesting to see how Atlanta's stores perform now that GH and SP have a number of their own luxury tenants.

Thanks for the great and interesting information Manolos! Happy to see you put Orlando(Mall at Millenia) It's got a great retail mix and architechurally beautiful. Everyone should check it out sometime. I look foward to my next trip to ATL to check out the new Lenox. I'm very disapointed about the Belk at Phipps. although I've never seen this much talked about Charlotte SP flagship Belk. It is very hard to imagine Belk being very fashion foward. Is it something on the line of a Dillard's? (Which wouldn't be too bad, considering what I've seen of Belk)

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Thanks for the great and interesting information Manolos! Happy to see you put Orlando(Mall at Millenia) It's got a great retail mix and architechurally beautiful. Everyone should check it out sometime. I look foward to my next trip to ATL to check out the new Lenox. I'm very disapointed about the Belk at Phipps. although I've never seen this much talked about Charlotte SP flagship Belk. It is very hard to imagine Belk being very fashion foward. Is it something on the line of a Dillard's? (Which wouldn't be too bad, considering what I've seen of Belk)

The Belk executives flew all the Parisian management and associates of the Phipps Plaza store to Charlotte to see the SP Belk store, and they were amazed at the difference, saying they saw Escada, Fendi, and a few other luxury designers, which to me meant they were running the SP Belk like an upscale specialty store verses a department store, but like I said in another post, will the well heeled clientel of Phipps Plaza accept this concept even if it is upscale because the Belk name is associated with it?

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Zara and Calvin Klein's white label boutique have been previously mentioned, but thanks for the update on the other two.

Zara is a cool store, we have one here in Orlando. Yeah, I just can't see Belk catching on, but maybe if it is like a seperate specialty store it will, but it still has the name attached. I don't think most people in Orlando have even noticed that the Belk stores have opened here. It sounds like Simon is focusing on Lenox, aren't they both Simon malls? Maybe Simon is planning on selling Phipps....? Is the vacancy rate at Phipps very noticable? I know that these days it takes more than a department store to put the spark back in a mall, (unless it of course it was Bloomies or Barney's or something...Harrods would be unique)...down here they've had to either add a lifestyle feature to the existing mall with restaurants and theaters or tear the whole mall down and build a lifestyle center. Is Phipps to that point yet? Sorry about all the questions but I am very curious, I love retail.......

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Zara is a cool store, we have one here in Orlando. Yeah, I just can't see Belk catching on, but maybe if it is like a seperate specialty store it will, but it still has the name attached. I don't think most people in Orlando have even noticed that the Belk stores have opened here. It sounds like Simon is focusing on Lenox, aren't they both Simon malls? Maybe Simon is planning on selling Phipps....? Is the vacancy rate at Phipps very noticable? I know that these days it takes more than a department store to put the spark back in a mall, (unless it of course it was Bloomies or Barney's or something...Harrods would be unique)...down here they've had to either add a lifestyle feature to the existing mall with restaurants and theaters or tear the whole mall down and build a lifestyle center. Is Phipps to that point yet? Sorry about all the questions but I am very curious, I love retail.......

You are always welcomed here metrowester! Phipps Plaza is in fact owned by Simon and is one of it's Flagship properties, the way the Bal Harbour Shops are to Miami. The A list is too long to go into but just visit:phippsplaza.com and you will see how well the mall is doing. They spent $125 million on a redue of the mall including all the marbel flooring imported from Italy. We as Atlantan's were hoping that Saks would take the Parisian space and Barney's New York would take the Saks spot, since Barney's said they were very interested in having an Atlanta presence, but I believe they want a stand alone location on Peachtree verses being in a mall, even upscale at that. So we will see how the Belk senerio plays out. Phipps is around 95% leased by the way.

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Zara is a cool store, we have one here in Orlando. Yeah, I just can't see Belk catching on, but maybe if it is like a seperate specialty store it will, but it still has the name attached. I don't think most people in Orlando have even noticed that the Belk stores have opened here. It sounds like Simon is focusing on Lenox, aren't they both Simon malls? Maybe Simon is planning on selling Phipps....? Is the vacancy rate at Phipps very noticable? I know that these days it takes more than a department store to put the spark back in a mall, (unless it of course it was Bloomies or Barney's or something...Harrods would be unique)...down here they've had to either add a lifestyle feature to the existing mall with restaurants and theaters or tear the whole mall down and build a lifestyle center. Is Phipps to that point yet? Sorry about all the questions but I am very curious, I love retail.......

Phipps is one of Simon's most profitable malls, there is no way they will be selling. There isn't a very noticeable vacancy rate, but Phipps has degraded a bit over the past few years. It has lost a number of its power luxury houses, such as Dior, Prada, Dolce & Gabbana, Jil Sander, Bottega and replacing them rather poorly. The poor profitability of these stores have created a hesitancy.

And there isn't really a chance of Bloomies, as there is one at Lenox Square. Similarly, Barneys, just being sold, is actually not looking for more US expansion, but looking at international markets. They already have 4 flagships set to open in the US.

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Phipps is one of Simon's most profitable malls, there is no way they will be selling. There isn't a very noticeable vacancy rate, but Phipps has degraded a bit over the past few years. It has lost a number of its power luxury houses, such as Dior, Prada, Dolce & Gabbana, Jil Sander, Bottega and replacing them rather poorly. The poor profitability of these stores have created a hesitancy.

And there isn't really a chance of Bloomies, as there is one at Lenox Square. Similarly, Barneys, just being sold, is actually not looking for more US expansion, but looking at international markets. They already have 4 flagships set to open in the US.

Manolos, you are correct on the losses with one exception. Jeffery Kazinski who is from Atlanta owns the famous Jeffery New York Boutique, so he also owned Jil Sander here in Atlanta, which did very well. He then decided to scoop up Jeffery Atlanta, starting at the entrance to Saks, and scooped up his Jil Sander Boutique and all the way down to his Bob Ellis Boutique and made the entire area Jeffery Atlanta, while still carying the Jil Sander label, and adding Prada, YSL, Dior and others. It's like a mini specialty retailer out on the mall, it covers a large amount of mall space. Phipps is pretty locked in, with only three spaces on level two of the Parisian wing vacant. So with Belk I don't know who would want to fill that space. GAP tried and failed horribly. And also as of note after these losses took place, Simon replaced Phipp's Director of Marketing and sent her to none other than Southpark. I don't have alot of info on their new Marketing Director however.

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