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Lenox Square/Phipps Plaza

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Who said they are closing. Sounds like here say to me :dontknow:With all do respect, The blogger that wrote those things about those stores has no way of knowing how much business Vince, Valentino, and Versace do. Those are not the types of stores that you can assess their performance visually. Too many people that can afford those stores call and place orders or have a personal shopper periodically place an order for them.

Well, I hope they aren't. Can't say I blame them if they wanted to move. The problem is that Phipps is slowly turning into kiddie land and some of the luxury stores probably aren't going to spend the money to open new stores at Lenox or Buckhead Atlanta. Hopefully, Lenox will renovate and Phipps will try their best to make sure the stores hold on and separate kiddie land from the luxury part of the mall. Hopefully, they will renovate that part and make it nicer. The blogger definitely has some experience and does know what he/she is talking about, however, I think that he/she definitely puts stores/restaurants on his/her closing list way too soon.

I am really excited for my Atlanta trip in a few weeks! Going to do some major shopping!

Edited by ct36

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Well, I hope they aren't. Can't say I blame them if they wanted to move. The problem is that Phipps is slowly turning into kiddie land and some of the luxury stores probably aren't going to spend the money to open new stores at Lenox or Buckhead Atlanta. Hopefully, Lenox will renovate and Phipps will try their best to make sure the stores hold on and separate kiddie land from the luxury part of the mall. Hopefully, they will renovate that part and make it nicer. The blogger definitely has some experience and does know what he/she is talking about, however, I think that he/she definitely puts stores/restaurants on his/her closing list way too soon.

I am really excited for my Atlanta trip in a few weeks! Going to do some major shopping!

Yeah we were supposed to get ALL saints according to that blogger and it hasnt open yet. Barneys was on Deathwatch a long time ago and it was supposed to close according to that blogger but its still open. I dont like that fact that legoland is in phipps but hey there is nothing we can do about that now.

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In Atlanta today and while I loved Lenox, I wasn't too impressed by Phipps at all. Nordstrom and Saks are nice, but Belk is indeed disgusting there, some of the stores were just not all that at all and to make matters worse, the Legoland setup looks horrendously tacky! The mall is ruined.

On the flip side, I didn't encounter any of the perceived snobbery that Lenox supposedly has.

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I really still don't see the problem with Belk. The people who work there are nice (much nicer than most of the people at Saks), and it may be hard to believe for some of you but it's really not much different from Von Maur and Macy's.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed Lenox again. Probably has something to do with the fact that I didn't see the food court! :sick:

The ugly, old brick at the plaza level and the food court and back part of the mall near Bloomingdale's needs to be renovated for the exterior. New tile and a new food court is needed as well. We all know you have the money Simon, so hopefully since they are actually spending some money for once this may happen. I hope to see a larger Apple, A&F, Hollister, maybe even J. Crew (which is very large already), and some new retailers such as Topshop, H&M (likely but not something I would really like that much), etc. Maybe move a store or 2 like Zara and put more luxury stores such as Chanel there, etc.

Saks Fifth Avenue was awesome. Level 2 was the only floor I went on, but is this the layout?

Basement/Level 1-Women's?

Level 2-Cosmetics & Fragrances, Accessories

Level 3-Men's?

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I do not know why Saks gets such a bad rap. I have been to Saks and everyone was very friendly and nice. I had to use the restroom once and they personally escorted me to their restroom in the mens suit department.

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Actually, the Belk I saw on Saturday was pretty unimpressive compared to Crabtree and South Park. Big banners screaming midrange brands and the store felt cluttered. They could have done better here.

H&M's big store is at Atlantic Station.\

Edited by dusty87

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The 5 people I talked to at Saks were very nice. The rest didn't really seemed to care/ignored me. I suppose I was being a bit too hard on them. It is a beautiful store. They had some fragrances I've never even seen before.

Belk at Phipps is really nice, especially since I'm used to the one in Asheville (which really is about the same). It is pretty underwhelming compared to SouthPark, but I never really expected it to be like SouthPark. I don't know why, but I never thought it would be as good as SouthPark. Guess I was right. Getting more upscale brands than they have is a challenge, I'm sure.

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I really still don't see the problem with Belk. The people who work there are nice (much nicer than most of the people at Saks), and it may be hard to believe for some of you but it's really not much different from Von Maur and Macy's.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed Lenox again. Probably has something to do with the fact that I didn't see the food court! :sick:

The ugly, old brick at the plaza level and the food court and back part of the mall near Bloomingdale's needs to be renovated for the exterior. New tile and a new food court is needed as well. We all know you have the money Simon, so hopefully since they are actually spending some money for once this may happen. I hope to see a larger Apple, A&F, Hollister, maybe even J. Crew (which is very large already), and some new retailers such as Topshop, H&M (likely but not something I would really like that much), etc. Maybe move a store or 2 like Zara and put more luxury stores such as Chanel there, etc.

Saks Fifth Avenue was awesome. Level 2 was the only floor I went on, but is this the layout?

Basement/Level 1-Women's?

Level 2-Cosmetics & Fragrances, Accessories

Level 3-Men's?

You are posting this on every blog thats out there I see... Why dont you write simon and tell him your concerns geez. You and these renovation post

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You are posting this on every blog thats out there I see... Why dont you write simon and tell him your concerns geez. You and these renovation post

Do you have a problem with ct36's renovation ideas? Because if so, you can come out and say it... but I can't imagine why you'd have a problem with someone stating their ideas on here.

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Maybe he meant forum posts, because I have made a few about that. I don't see the problem with posting my ideas here either. I don't understand why he would have a problem anyway. Lenox is one of the nicest, most upscale malls in the country. A renovation would only solidify their presence even more in luxury shopping in the country. I have a feeling that they will soon, considering they are in the process of exterior renovations.

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Lenox Square making many upcoming exterior changes to shopping mall.

We are taking the first steps in our long term plan to redesign the front entrance of the shopping center. We will be creating more street level retail exposure, while enhancing the exterior look and customer experience of the center. We anticipate construction will start in spring of 2012, with retailer announcements occurring shortly after. Lenox Square’s long-standing tradition of evolving to attract the best retailers and to bring new experiences to its customers has kept it the shopping destination of the Southeast.

Read the rest of the story here: http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/12/05/lenox-square-mall-spending-633k-to-demolish-its-main-entrance/

Also Vans is opening a new shoe store at Lenox Square. Story here:

http://whatnowatlanta.com/2012/02/07/vans-shoes-opening-first-retail-store-at-lenox-square-mall/

Seems like Lenox Square has enough sneeker retail stores for sure. :silly:

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Saks Fifth Avenue was awesome. Level 2 was the only floor I went on, but is this the layout?

Basement/Level 1-Women's?

Level 2-Cosmetics & Fragrances, Accessories

Level 3-Men's?

No,no,no, ct, I know it is confusing, but remember Phipps Plaza is built on top of a three level parking garage. The first level of Saks on level 1 consist of signature and couture clothing for plus size ladies, children's fashion apparel and accessories, gifts, home accessories, and gift wrap services, along with a Saks Fifth Avenue hair salon.

Level 2 is really level one, as it is on the same level as mall level one. Level 2 consists of cosmetics, fragrances, haute couture fragrances, designer shoes, luxury jewelry, handbags and accessories, some women's trendy and sports apparel, along with the leased mini boutiques for Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior, Chanel, Prada, FENDI, Dolce&Gabbana, and Vera Wang.

Level 3 anchors with the mall's level two. Level 3 consist of The Men's Store and as you approach the Saks entrance, men's sportswear and fragrances are on the right, (although some fragrances are still on Level 2) and men's couture clothing is on the left, in particular suites, along with men's accessories which for example are wallets, including small leather goods, large leather goods like men's messenger bags, belts, underwear by several high end designers , a mini Giorgio Armani Boutique, and a men's luxury designer shoe department. Then as you go further into level three you will find individual departments (in some design houses, but not all) for women's couture clothing from Chanel, Christian Dior, St. John, Stella McCartney, Akris, and others. Then there is an area that serves the other designer collections that are extremely nice, and placed impeccably, but just not as hot as some of the other designers. The ceiling in this area has chandeliers and thousands of hand placed Swarovski crystals. Hope that helps ct. :)

Edited by Kenneth Disraili-Jean

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Sounds like I should have went up there! I just saw level 2. I didn't see a mall entrance anywhere? Is it next to Louis Vuitton? That's where I expected it to be. I heard level 3 was really cramped, at it sounds like it! At least it has some of the mall space on that level.

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Yes ct, they were bursting at the seams and bought out the leases of several retailers on mall level two and moved the Men's Store from Sak's level 2 area and put all of it in the current configuration. Also the store had been enlarged by 1/3rd, but still could not handle the growth in business. Now Saks is bursting at the seams again and may explode this time. I do not know why they will not build a second Atlanta area location. Plenty of money in Dunwoody and even more in Alpharetta and all around North Fulton County.

As far as the entrances, from mall level one you will enter Saks Fifth Avenue through two sets of doors. Once inside you will be on Saks level 2. Wow and good guess ct. In fact as you enter into Saks from the mall entrance, Louis Vuitton is on the left and is fairly large for a leased mini boutique. Next to Louis Vuitton is Christian Dior, and then Chanel. Next to Chanel is the Peachtree entrance into Saks. After that you have more high end cosmetics until it winds around to the Giorgio Armani Cosmetics Boutique. After that you have the Lenox Road entrance into Saks. Then on the other side is designer footwear for ladies, then sportswear for ladies and then the back entrance into Saks. On the other side is luxury jewelry with accessories in the middle, a long hall with fragrances on both sides for men and women, including rare hard to find haute couture fragrances, then the escalators. On the right side of the main mall level one entrance, you will see the mini boutiques for Prada, then FENDI, Dolce&Gabbana, and Vera Wang.

Down on level 1 there is only one entrance which is at the back of Saks and takes you directly out to level P-1 of the parking decks. I assume you saw the entrance to Saks from mall level two. It is very beautiful, and I do love the Men's Store. Now next time maybe you will hang out with me and I will give you the tour of your life lol, and not all of it will be malls. :yahoo:

Edited by Kenneth Disraili-Jean

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It was very beautiful! You know the part in the middle near the entrance closest to Belk with the forms (mannequins)? The flooring around it was really nice but it was just ugly 90's there! Why haven't they put the nice flooring the rest of the store has? I bought something from the Clinique counter (which was kind of hard to find, BTW). I was being kind of dumb and went around towards Kiehl's and Laura Mercier and then walked around again and I was like WTH? Then I finally went to the other side and found it. Haha. So I did see where the Louis Vuitton and Chanel boutiques were. They gave me a sample of one of the Bond No. 9 (or something like that) fragrances and I put in my bag and it still smells really good, even today! Then I went by the accessories for a minute. My favorite side of the store is the newest one that I went out of (nearest to Belk).

I am pretty scared for Saks since they are closing a lot of stores. I can see them closing most of the stores if they continue to do bad. Of course the Atlanta and most of the Florida locations will survive, as well as the Flagship, Beverly Hills, and larger cities like Houston, Dallas, etc. I could see the Birmingham, Raleigh, Richmond, etc. stores closing if they continue to do this bad. I guess people don't really like Saks that much anymore. It does seem to appeal to a little older crowd than NM does. I greatly prefer the look of almost all NM store compared to Saks, also. Just like NM at SouthPark looks better than Saks in Raleigh, NM looks much better in Orlando than Saks, etc.

Edited by ct36

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Hi ct:

I do know that all of the Saks Fifth Avenue "resort stores" have been closed or turned into the OFF 5TH outlet stores, like in Charleston, and many in Florida and California. Also some of the larger stores in large major cities are aging and it is showing. The Peachtree entrance into Saks has not changed much since the specialty retailer opened at Phipps in 1968.

They need to spend money on renovations of their large stores; exterior as well as interior.

I think the merchandise is great, but not the look of it in Saks. Not that many new Saks stores have opened in recent years, where Neiman Marcus has had many stores to open and is expanding aggressively throughout the nation. Atlanta could easily support 2 Saks stores and give the Phipps location a little breathing room. They might could do one more expansion from the back entrance to the Monarch Court mall entrance, but then that will be it. As I stated, I would rather have the Phipps store and maybe one added onto Perimeter or North Point, or maybe a new lifestyle center in North Fulton County.

I still think that the Neiman Marcus at Lenox Square is beautiful with the modern style and the granite exterior. I have always loved NM and love how the fragrances are sitting out and all you have to do is pick it up, pay for it and go. Also the Chanel mini boutique is larger and carries more items than the Saks Chanel boutique. That is one reason Atlanta does not have a Chanel freestanding boutique. The company is afraid that if they build the freestanding Chanel, it will hurt thier leased mini boutiques and Chanel will loose exposure. I would prefer having the freestanding boutique and everything under one roof, but I do not run Chanel, so perhaps the executives will change thier minds on thier theory about the Chanel mini boutiques. I am not sure if Bloomingdale's has one or not, since I hardly ever shop there. It is very nice, but I just like NM and Saks better.

As far as the flooring, idk. And yes, the newer part is the nicest along with the Men's Store up on mall level two or Sak's third floor lol.

I saw the blog where Rebecca Taylor, Lilly Pulitzer, Sur la Table, Omega, and Hublot all have new boutiques currently under construction at Phipps. That is a good sign. I wish Simon had never bought Phipps Plaza or even Lenox Square. It would have been better to have had them owned and managed by Taubman or Forbes.

But yeah ct, Saks may begin closing stores in smaller markets and only leave stores open in the nation's largest cities, who knows.

Oh and btw, I use Clinique skincare products for men and had the same problem when it used to be tucked away in a corner near the Peachtree Street entrance before Saks renovated to the current look they have now. I personally think that Saks feels that Clinique is beneath them and should not even be in a Saks store lol.

Well we can always switch to Christian Dior skincare products, as they now have a men's line!! :P

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Which Florida stores have closed? I can't think of any off the top of my head. I do know that the current Saks stores in Florida are doing very well. It doesn't surprise me, especially with all of the older people retiring there from New York where they grew up with Saks. That does seem to be a bit of a problem, though that Neiman Marcus has a greater presence in even the New York area (of all places) than Saks does. I haven't been to Neiman Marcus at Lenox, but I plan to go there next time (probably next year or even a year after, sadly). I wonder what will happen with Saks though. The thing that is odd is that the center walkways to the entrance near the Monarch court to the escalators are really wide and open. The rest of the store on level 2 is so packed!

To be honest, I generally hate all old department store/mall exteriors. Neiman Marcus at Lenox is an exception. It is definitely a beautiful store inside and out! The same is with the Bloomingdale's at Perimeter. I didn't see it in person until February, and gosh did that make a difference! I definitely like that with the fragrances, you know, all open and free and not closed in cases. That's one of the reasons why I like Sephora so much. (Yay for them opening this summer in Greenville! haha) Many department stores are actually starting to do the open sell/assisted sell with cosmetics and fragrances. That is actually what I prefer because they still have free gifts and I can ask questions and they know more about the products (not that the people at Sephora aren't nice too). Except you feel really bad if you don't buy anything, haha.

I too would prefer a Chanel boutique, and hopefully Atlanta can get one soon. Eventually, it will get to the point that people will want a larger selection of Chanel products than NM and Saks offer. Even though I would rather have Chanel at Lenox, it would make most sense to open it at Buckhead Atlanta for best distribution. Just like many luxury retailers like to open a mini-boutique at Saks in Phipps and open a full line boutique at Lenox, etc. Both Lenox and Phipps are in no way superior to Mall at Millenia in any way, except for the stores it has. I greatly prefer Forbes over Taubman and Simon. Best of all? No kiosks! I don't really think Taubman is quite as good as even Simon. Whether one agrees or not, one must admit that Taubman does not manage or own any of the nation's premier shopping destinations. Simon does, though. If Forbes owned Lenox then it would be beautiful. A new entrance like they are doing now and a new food court like they will likely do within the next few years will be old news for Forbes!

While I love Clinique and it's nice, I do kind of understand what Saks is thinking. They sell it at Peebles of all places! I use the 3-step and Acne Solutions line, and I also like Kiehl's skincare products. Too bad my nearest Kiehl's anywhere near me is Belk in Greenville :( At least I can order from Nordstrom with free shipping). For shaving products, I use The Art of Shaving, Clinique, and Kiehl's. (but mostly AOS). As far as I know, it is not sold at NM or Saks. I know they have a boutique at Lenox and it is sold at their boutique at Lenox and Bloomingdale's and Nordstrom.

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It has been a long time since the so called "resort stores" were closed in Florida, so I do not really know which ones, but I do remember it happening. Ahhhh, Mall at Millenia; what a showplace. It is as majical as the Majic Kingdom at Walt Disney World.

Then they have the Orlando Premium Outlets, and not one, but two of them. The one nearest to Walt Disney World is the one that really has the luxury outlets like: Giorgio Armani, A/X Armani Exchange, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Etro, and more. Wish I could go down there lol.

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It has been a long time since the so called "resort stores" were closed in Florida, so I do not really know which ones, but I do remember it happening. Ahhhh, Mall at Millenia; what a showplace. It is as majical as the Majic Kingdom at Walt Disney World.

Then they have the Orlando Premium Outlets, and not one, but two of them. The one nearest to Walt Disney World is the one that really has the luxury outlets like: Giorgio Armani, A/X Armani Exchange, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Etro, and more. Wish I could go down there lol.

The Mall at Millenia is amazing! Every Forbes Co. mall is indeed a showplace, with Millenia being the absolute best. It is very, very magical. Their A&F store is huge (16,000 square feet) and beautiful, and double the size of the Asheville store, as well at Perimeter. The Banana Republic and J. Crew stores are smaller, but have you seen the new BR store at Millenia? It's amazing! I know that VS used to be the third largest at Lenox, but after Henri Bendel, the Aventura, Millenia, and even Haywood are larger (I think). There are probably more that are larger. But since VS obviously isn't doing too well at Lenox, I think it would be a good time to open Gilly Hicks there. I am surprised that A&F hasn't opened a Gilly Hicks at Millenia yet. There were 2 spaces, but 1 is now Brooks Brothers and the other is probably too large.

I really enjoyed the Premium Outlets. I'm not exactly sure why, but I did like the International Drive ones better. Well, I probably do know why. Some of the people in the outlets like Burberry and such were pretty snobby. Almost to the point where I would think people at the regular boutiques at Millenia were nicer. What is it with those people? Like sometimes you can go to Ulta and the people are snobby but aren't at Sephora? I guess when normal people feel some upscale-ness they get snobby with it or something, haha. The International Drive outlets did feel larger, though. Plus I really liked the NM/SFA stores there. I do know that they are expanding the Vineland Ave. Outlets across the street where the Dixie Stampede was. I wonder what stores will go there.

Have you been to Florida Mall? If you haven't you really aren't missing much! It's kind of like a huge Perimeter, just more middle-market and less attractive.

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Hi ct,

I forget to mention that Simon now owns all the Premium Outlets, just what we need right?? :shok:

Wow, the Florida Mall is one level and looks like an Octopus when you look at the mall directory (a Simon mall) he, he!! :lol:

They have enough department stores for sure with Macy's, Nordstrom, Dillard's, Saks Fifth Avenue, and then on the other end jcp, and sears. I do like the idea of putting H&M, Zara, and XXI Forever in there own large spaces outside of the mall, and if that is not enough, The Florida Mall Hotel & Convention Center in the middle of the place. I think Saks should have jumped ship and gone to Millenia, obviously to be in an environment that is designed for specialty upscale, luxury department stores and retail boutiques.

Oh yeah, the Orlando Prime Outlets on Vineland. They sure have enough for every socio-economic background and wallet lol.

The Mall at Millenia is getting an Emporio Armani Boutique and I believe it is on level one near Macy's. So I guess that leaves one space lol, if we are right.

The Florida Mall is 2 million sq. feet, 300,000 larger than the Mall of Georgia.

I am not sure about Victoria's Secret at Perimeter, but at 9,717 it certainly is not the largest. XXI Forever holds the title at 15,701 sq. feet, then Urban Outfitters at 12,000 sq. feet, and Love Culture at 11,469 sq. feet. Abercrombie & Fitch is 8,153 sq. feet, with other stores larger also.

I know Lenox Square and Phipps Plaza have a lot of history with Atlanta, but maybe it is time to let go and start fresh and new. I would love for a new mall to go up in Buckhead that would take care of all of Lenox and Phipps. Once built, every retailer (that is invited) could join the new mall along with the specialty, luxury department stores. The space that Lenox/Phipps occupies would be prime real estate for new office, hotel, and condo towers, but where to build it in Buckhead is another question for sure. :dunno:

And finally, you will be glad to hear that Simon has renovated the back (Plaza Court) with the food court on level one of Plaza Court. It looks great. I has the same handrailing as the NM upper level expansion wing. And the whitish/grey marble flooring is beautiful. California Pizza Kitchen also renovated in the center of the court. Gone are the old steel rails with the ivey hanging down, and the brick floors, with all of the rails, drywall, ceiling, and support beams painted in that tacky beige/tan color. Now it is all snow white and beautiful. Go LENOX, GO!!!! :good:

Edited by Kenneth Disraili-Jean

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The problem with Florida Mall is that it's just in a not-so-nice area and it doesn't look that good. The Pottery Barn and Williams-Sonoma stores closed. At least they are getting Microsoft and a larger Apple. I kind of hate Microsoft, however, having it is better than some crappy store moving in. I am wondering if jcp will start renovating their stores soon to keep up with their new image they are trying to create. I recently went to the store at the Asheville Mall and their modern marketing looked so out of place with that 1990's store. The main reason is because I really, really want a Sephora in there! JCP stores with Sephora have to be open enough to have a Sephora. The JCP there is really closed off with tons of walls and such so there's no reason other than that why every other JCP store has one!

I remember hearing somewhere that Nordstrom has gotten more efficient with their stockroom spacing in the past few years and it definitely shows! Both Nordstrom stores at Florida Mall and Mall of Georgia are in the 170K square feet range. SouthPark's Nordstrom is 2 years older than Florida and 4 years older than Mall of Georgia and it is 144,000 square feet. I really feel like both stores feel about the same size. I can hardly tell much difference from the stores.

I am still kind of wondering about Saks because I do think they might do better at a more upscale mall (Millenia), however, I think one of their weaknesses is having stores in the same malls as Neiman Marcus. Unless it is a larger market than usually more people go to Neiman's. While Orlando doesn't exactly fit the larger market description, Millenia has one of the highest sales per square foot at over $1000. (Lenox and SouthPark are both around $700). So, I do think Saks would do okay there. I am just not certain if they would spend all the money to move there, especially given their condition.

There is one vacant space on level 1 between Brookstone and Talbots, so it may go there. I am wondering what restaurant will open in the former McCormick and Schmick's space. The only likely restaurant I could think right off my head would be Grand Lux Cafe (that would open there). I don't think they could open there considering it would either hurt Cheesecake Factory sales or would not get enough since TCF is next door. Ocean Prime, maybe? Can't exactly think of anything else.

I am fine with Lenox, especially if they did even more renovations (BTW please take some pics for me when you're there again! haha). The mall itself looks great just new tile in the main 2 levels and a few exterior renovations here and there and it will be looking great! I guess they heard me complaining every other day about the food court, haha.

:)

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Mall of Georgia-1,829,000

Florida Mall-1,777,000

Surprisingly, Mall of Georgia is actually the larger of the 2.

Edited by ct36

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