Hampton Roads/ Richmond Metropolitan area?

[vdogg]

Richmond and Hampton Roads Look at forming stronger ties.

Hampton Roads and Richmond are getting closer and closer together as the 64 corridor expands. At some point in the future I think we

[wrldcoupe4]

Rus may have a heart attack if his beloved Norfolk is ever lumped together with Richmond

While I think it's premature to actually combine the MSA's at the moment (though a 3 million person MSA sounds pretty nice ), it's a good idea for the region's to work together with one another on multiple issues. In reality, both Richmond and HR would probably see greater prosperity by working together instead of competing with one another. I think we can still allow for local identity.

Some of Richmond's power elites are part of this discussion, which means our region is definitely open to this idea.

[Stunad]

They should keep them apart. HR and Richmond are too far apart to actually work together with any real success over things like combined services, etc. If I was in charge of the world I would lump Richmond with the Fredricksburg area. Fredricksburg is growing and has more in common with Richmond than it does with DC. HR can keep Williamsburg and Richmond can have Fredricksburg. Just a thought.

[wrldcoupe4]

I don't think Richmond has much in common with Fredericksburg anymore... If anything I see it having more in common with Williamsburg than Fredericksburg.

Petersburg is already lumped into the Richmond metro, though it isn't really marketed as part of the "Richmond Region" (Richmond, Henrico, Chesterfield, Hanover).

[Jerseyman4]

The two metro areas are not alike to me thus the two metros working together will not always be on the same page regarding domestic issues. Fredericksburg to me is an exburb of DC and is not in any relation to Richmond. Williamsburg could really be anything: a exburb of one and/or both metros or just an oasis of its own.

[lammius]

Richmond and HR are simply too far apart and have too much nothingness between them to be considered a solitary metropolitan unit. The existing "merged metros" such as Balt-Wash and DFW exist because they contain huge cities located within 20-30'ish miles of one another and have HUGE rings of suburbs where settlement and commuting between the two central areas overlap and distinct boundaries are indistinguishable.

There's lots of speculation about merging metros (look in SSC forums and you'll see that nearly every metro is rumored to be merging with another nearby metro), but I'm not convinced that there's a case in most occasions. Though one region's exurbs may encroach upon the exurbs of another, there's usually not enough of a large-scale exchange between the regions whereby they can be considered ONE consolidated region.

Fredericksburg is part of the Balt-Wash CMSA, where I believe it belongs.

Williamsburg is part of the VB-Norf-NN MSA, where I believe it belongs.

IF ANYTHING, within the next few decades, Richmond stands a better chance of becoming a Balt-Wash edge city than a merged metro with HR. Or at least DC may start snatching northern counties from the Richmond MSA.

[rusthebuss]

Richmond and Hampton Roads Look at forming stronger ties.

Talks are in the very early stages but there seems to be a serious push for this now. What do you guys think? Will this help or hurt both regions?

I know you guys are going to laugh but I feel that they see HR getting really big down the road and merging them would only make Richmond look better and get more federal money. I think they are looking at this to get more federal money plus the ports are growing exponentially and it would look good to have that under the Richmond metro.

[wrldcoupe4]

Rus wasn't this an idea that came from the Hampton Roads Partnership?

Richmond doesn't need Hampton Roads to make it look better economically... it already looks great in that respect.

So yes, I am laughing at you.

[wrldcoupe4]

Am I wrong?

[rusthebuss]

Am I wrong?

I will let it go but also HR doesn't need Richmond either.

[wrldcoupe4]

I'd agree with that...

but I think that the two regions should have better communication on various issues. Perhaps set up commissions on transportation...rail, I-64, 460, etc...

[PerduDansGand]

This can only be a good thing regardless of the politics internally. The truth is that the rest of the country for the most part knows nothing about Hampton Roads/Norfolk with many not even guessing Virginia Beach is in Virginia. More people know of Richmond essentially as it is the state's capital, so this larger MSA will do nothing but good in that is brings more exposure to both areas with the larger population. Even if it is a bit of a stretch realistically it cannot hurt, especially in regards to economic development, something both metros are hurting in compared to the rest of the country.

There is talk of San Antonio and Austin merging as well down the road as they are growing towards each other.

[burt]

Richmond and HR are simply too far apart and have too much nothingness between them to be considered a solitary metropolitan unit. The existing "merged metros" such as Balt-Wash and DFW exist because they contain huge cities located within 20-30'ish miles of one another and have HUGE rings of suburbs where settlement and commuting between the two central areas overlap and distinct boundaries are indistinguishable.

There's lots of speculation about merging metros (look in SSC forums and you'll see that nearly every metro is rumored to be merging with another nearby metro), but I'm not convinced that there's a case in most occasions. Though one region's exurbs may encroach upon the exurbs of another, there's usually not enough of a large-scale exchange between the regions whereby they can be considered ONE consolidated region.

Fredericksburg is part of the Balt-Wash CMSA, where I believe it belongs.

Williamsburg is part of the VB-Norf-NN MSA, where I believe it belongs.

IF ANYTHING, within the next few decades, Richmond stands a better chance of becoming a Balt-Wash edge city than a merged metro with HR. Or at least DC may start snatching northern counties from the Richmond MSA.

If Richmond becomes an Edge City to the megalopolis north of us, wouldn't the natural progression be that HR would become an Edge City to the Edge City?

[vdogg]

HR would become an Edge City to the Edge City?

HR is a little to large to be considered an edge city of Richmond Burt. Perhaps I read you wrong and you mean to say that HR would be an edge city of the megalopolis (or more accurately, an edge metro )

[lammius]

If Richmond becomes an Edge City to the megalopolis north of us, wouldn't the natural progression be that HR would become an Edge City to the Edge City?

IMO, it's extremely unlikely that the first will happen, at least not for several or many decades. DC exurbia is rushing down I-95 toward Richmond but it will be a very long time (if ever) before Richmond is connected enough with DC to associate them that way. The second even less likely. HR and Richmond aren't growing that quickly toward one another, and I doubt any real connection (enough to designate them as one solitary MSA or CMSA) between them would develop until for a much longer period of time (again, if ever).

Example:

New York and Philadelphia suburbs slammed together in Middlesex and Mercer Counties, NJ. It's really impossible to tell where one city's influence ends and the other's begins. Large numbers of people living close to or even within Phila. commute to places close to or within New York, and vice versa. I officially live in the New York CMSA, but many people I know commute to Philadelphia. Many people in my classes at school here live in Philly. I think these two areas are much more intertwined than any two in VA, yet there's no rush to merge them, and I doubt any merge will occur (at least not for many decades).

In sum, my previous statement beginning with "IF ANYTHING" meant that DC & RIC would probably merge before RIC & HR, but even that is a huge stretch. Maybe (though hopefully not) we will have spread out so much that these mergers would happen by 2050.

But at the rate of declining densities at which new settlements are developed, the sprawl of the future may not create a density high enough to be considered metropolitan!

[vdogg]

Slightly off topic but related here is a link to a very interesting State population growth report. In analyzes the growth of all the states metros over the last 5 years. It contains some surprises too.

[vdogg]

And here's an interesting map. I'm astounded by how much land mass the Richmond MSA officially covers (more than HR). It appears, at least from this, that the metros are already colliding somewhat.

[vdogg]

Richmond is growing much faster than we are however (which kinda surprised me ).

[vdogg]

As usual, the suburbs lead the way.

Localities growing by more than 10,000, 2000-2005

Loudoun 82,700

Prince William 74,500

Fairfax 52,400

Chesterfield 26,600

Stafford 24,900

Spotsylvania 23,600

Henrico 21,000

Chesapeake 14,200

Suffolk 13,400

Virginia Beach 10,300

Richmond grew by 6.4% while HR grew by 3.7%

[vdogg]

And here is their "South Atlantic States" chart. Wonder how they decided which states those were?

Now that i've thoroughly numbed your senses with charts and graphs, I'm going to shut up now.

[rusthebuss]

You sure have been busy

[urbanvb]

I'm all about stats and graphs. Keep up the great work, Vdogg.

[Jerseyman4]

Example:

New York and Philadelphia suburbs slammed together in Middlesex and Mercer Counties, NJ. It's really impossible to tell where one city's influence ends and the other's begins. Large numbers of people living close to or even within Phila. commute to places close to or within New York, and vice versa. I officially live in the New York CMSA, but many people I know commute to Philadelphia. Many people in my classes at school here live in Philly. I think these two areas are much more intertwined than any two in VA, yet there's no rush to merge them, and I doubt any merge will occur (at least not for many decades).

Plainsboro, Middlesex County is equidistant (45 miles either way) to both cities. Its not even unusual for Philadelphia city residents to commute to NYC! A lot of gentrification is taking place by ex-NYC residents moving down to brotherly love to escape the astronomical high cost of living the city yet they do not want to miss out the fast pace, energy and nightlife Phila has to offer.

Wow, look at Danville, its seeing a decline! Thats sad because i think its a city that has a lot of potential to being something similar to Lynchburg. The city is only 30-40 minutes from Greensboro and provides four lane highway access to just about anywhere within reasonable driving distance for a day trip. I hope this city sees a brighter future with new gains.

[burt]

HR is a little to large to be considered an edge city of Richmond Burt. Perhaps I read you wrong and you mean to say that HR would be an edge city of the megalopolis (or more accurately, an edge metro )

I was pulling your chain, fellas . It's not likely in any of our lifetimes that Richmond or HR will become anybody's Edge City.

[JWCJ]

Its a good idea if the two metros did that and it could very well happen in our lifetimes. Richmond and Hampton Roads don't hate each other. My cousins that live down there think Richmond is part of the HR.