Indian Lake Village to add 2.5 milliom ft in office space

[smeagolsfree]

Every time i open the the NBJ I end up seeing some things I like and others I don't. Well here is an example of something I don't like. Indian lake Village to develop 256 acres with retail, residential and get this, 2.5 million sq ft. in commercial space. As much as is in the 5 largest office buildings in downtown Nashville. I know there has to be growth in outlying communities but this is way too much for us that want to see a larger urban core. Frankly I avoid Sumner county with my last breath because of traffic and other reasons I don't want to go into.

Do we need this development there? For myself the answer is no! What do you guys think???

[AceMentor]

I've about had it with these corporations pumping all their hq's out to the outlying areas. Why don't they put them in the CBD? i mean, wouldn't there be more buissiness if it was where more people are?

[ATLBrain]

Hmmm... this is quite interesting. The first huge suburban project that I remember here was Perimeter Place Park (ca 1982). Sure we had them before that, but that's the first one I remember having a huge impact. Well, the thing about it was that it instantly became a hit with out-of-town companies looking for their presence in Atlanta (I think many of them were not in town before). So it made for a ready, relatively low-cost place to set up shop. I've long since then thought that every city needs a good inventory of suburban office parks.

Now, Ace, I think you have hit the nail on the head. As Nashville's CBD builds up with a greater population, then demand for office space downtown will rise (for similar reasons as the build-up in the burbs). A few of our colleagues on this board have stated that most cities' downtowns will not see much in the way of trophy office (only) towers. I agree with that reasonable prediction. Only a few cities have the critical mass of the types of company HQs that still go for the trophy (and since 9/11, I think they've reevaluated their own desires/needs for the huge towers.

Having said that, I think cities like Nashville (and even Atlanta in the downtown area) will continue to see mixed-use and condos (especially as the average family size continues to shrink). In a compact downtown like Nashville's, you'll still see some impressive towers. Luckily, you have some guys like TG who see the potential.

So I think you'll see DT becoming more of a community before you see the next big tower with some office, but mostly mixed use. How long that will be?... I don't know.

My two cents. Did I state the obvious?

The Sumner project will be put up over a period of time. I agree that all 2.5 Million at once would be a big problem for downtown.

Let's keep in mind that Sumner will have more than 200K residents by 2015.

[it's just dave]

I rather like the idea of downtown as a community of people working, living and playing. We'll always have office parks and as Brain said, the companies that are considering relocating to an area look for this type of thing. It's necessary for the regional economy. It just doesn't paint a clear picture of booming office structures downtown. We may just have to get used to that as cities reinvent themselves.

Sumner is booming and now it appears the trickle up to Robertson is taking hold. This story from the NBJ today illustrates that with Federated Dept. stores getting ready to build a 585,000 sq ft distribution center after having just dumped 1.6 million sq ft elsewhere. This center will employ 500 people, the closures affected 700 and it appears Middle Tennessee/So. Ky is going to put a lot of people back to work. This center will distribute the goods placed on Macys.com and bloomingdales.com for the most part. This is a good lick for a small county near here that needs the boost.

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

[SoundScan]

That 2.5 million sq ft. won't be here tomorrow, that much is certain. Maryland Farms in Brentwood began construction in 1975 and only just this last year(2005) was ground broken on the last available lot. That's 30 years from start to finish!!

[Hankster]

That 2.5 million sq ft. won't be here tomorrow, that much is certain. Maryland Farms in Brentwood began construction in 1975 and only just this last year(2005) was ground broken on the last available lot. That's 30 years from start to finish!!

This whole trend towards suburban office parks is just plain bad,and it doesn't matter how long they take to get built. Can you think of anything that contributes to suburban sprawl and bumper to bumper traffic than that? I can't. Now everyone has the excuse to live even further and further out. You'll have people choosing to live in Portland and commuting to Indian Lake Village who would otherwise live much closer in if the office complex were downtown. This whole trend just galls me to no end. I wish our city fathers would do something about it, but how are you going to convince the city of Hendersonville not to accept such a huge investment in their city? Just wait until the suburban office parks start locating on 840 (they'll probably be an announcement twice the size of the Indian Lake Village park annouced for 840 before you know it). There's no damn end to it.

[rocket9561]

Hendersonville cannot support itself without such developments. We have an over abundance of Residential Areas with little commercial space to provide a backbone of sales tax revenue for those residents. Unless you want Sumner County to become a wasteland on par or worse than Rutherford County within the next 25-50 years these developments must take place to keep up the quality of life. We can't just go urban. We have to survive. With these type of developments, Sumner County continues to gain on Williamson County as a premiere place to live and to expand businesses in the Nashville MSA. This could spill over into the relatively underdeveloped Northern parts of Davidson County as we saw with the Brentwood border in Williamson County. It's not totally a bad thing.

[rocket9561]

Every time i open the the NBJ I end up seeing some things I like and others I don't. Well here is an example of something I don't like. Indian lake Village to develop 256 acres with retail, residential and get this, 2.5 million sq ft. in commercial space. As much as is in the 5 largest office buildings in downtown Nashville. I know there has to be growth in outlying communities but this is way too much for us that want to see a larger urban core. Frankly I avoid Sumner county with my last breath because of traffic and other reasons I don't want to go into.

Do we need this development there? For myself the answer is no! What do you guys think???

I tend to think that we will actually have the best deal on Traffic once the I-65 project is completed and it is actually nearing that. Vietnam Veterans blvd will, after next year, provide a complete bypass of Gallatin Rd. from Rivergate to the Northern boundary of Gallatin. A bridge to Hermitage has been proposed and that would also ease congestion. Hendersonville already enjoys a commuter service to Nashville with MTA and has been one of the most vocal proponents of the Commuter Rail. We will have the next leg if approved...in fact, Indian Lake Village is designed around the station.

[ATLBrain]

I tend to think that we will actually have the best deal on Traffic once the I-65 project is completed and it is actually nearing that. Vietnam Veterans blvd will, after next year, provide a complete bypass of Gallatin Rd. from Rivergate to the Northern boundary of Gallatin.

For a while anyway.

I immediatly think of GA 400 when I read about what's happening in Sumner County. I vaguely remember when the first leg of Viet Vets was u/c in the early 90s. By comparison: In the early '80s, the initial 4 lanes of GA 400 gave people a smooth shot to Northern Fulton Co (ie Roswell, Alpharetta, etc.). Of course, these days it's a parking lot all the way to Forsyth at peak hours. I'm resigned to the notion that the congestion is inevitable whereever you have rapid growth. Maybe I've been in ATL too long

With announcements like this, Sumner Point and the extension of the 4 lanes to I-65 in Portland, I think Sumner's growth will explode in the next 5 years. While I haven't been there in years, I remember that it is a beautiful area with very nice homes. I especially like the lake frontage. However, I think Hendersonville's lack of utilization of its lakeside is a shame.

A bridge to Hermitage has been proposed and that would also ease congestion. Hendersonville already enjoys a commuter service to Nashville with MTA and has been one of the most vocal proponents of the Commuter Rail. We will have the next leg if approved...in fact, Indian Lake Village is designed around the station.

Hmmm, the bridge sounds like a great idea... I vaguely remember some talk years ago about one over the Cumberland somewhere near Old Hickory Dam. It sounds promising as long as it would plug-in to either Briley or I-40. What's the plan? When would it be completed? Would it go to into Hendersonville?

The train would help. We didn't have the train to north Fulton until recently. It came after the cars did. So maybe the dog can stay ahead of the tail (at least for a while) in Sumner.

[rocket9561]

For a while anyway.

I immediatly think of GA 400 when I read about what's happening in Sumner County. I vaguely remember when the first leg of Viet Vets was u/c in the early 90s. By comparison: In the early '80s, the initial 4 lanes of GA 400 gave people a smooth shot to Northern Fulton Co (ie Roswell, Alpharetta, etc.). Of course, these days it's a parking lot all the way to Forsyth at peak hours. I'm resigned to the notion that the congestion is inevitable whereever you have rapid growth. Maybe I've been in ATL too long

With announcements like this, Sumner Point and the extension of the 4 lanes to I-65 in Portland, I think Sumner's growth will explode in the next 5 years. While I haven't been there in years, I remember that it is a beautiful area with very nice homes. I especially like the lake frontage. However, I think Hendersonville's lack of utilization of its lakeside is a shame.

Hmmm, the bridge sounds like a great idea... I vaguely remember some talk years ago about one over the Cumberland somewhere near Old Hickory Dam. It sounds promising as long as it would plug-in to either Briley or I-40. What's the plan? When would it be completed? Would it go to into Hendersonville?

The train would help. We didn't have the train to north Fulton until recently. It came after the cars did. So maybe the dog can stay ahead of the tail (at least for a while) in Sumner.

The city has realized the lakefront is its greatest asset and is working to integrate it more into the city. A bridge has been built from the Drakes Creek Park/Kid's Kingdom to an island in the middle of the lake with fountains on bothside. A new Monument to Hendersonville's veterans has also been constructed here. The Hendersonville Town Center Plan will incorporate the area of land from the Intersection of Old Shackle Island Rd to Saunders Ferry Rd which includes Lake Front property on both sides of Gallatin Rd.

On the peninsulas the lake is almost exclusively used for upscale residential development. I don't see the city changing this other than the possible addition of new parks. People are paying Millions of dollars for Hendersonville and Gallatin lakeside homes. Fairvue and Savannah are amazing.

[ATLBrain]

Cool. Any details on that bridge? From where, to where?

[rocket9561]

The Bridge has been talked about since the 80s but recently has had a lot of interest from Governments in Davidson, Sumner, and Wilson counties. It would probably take many years to complete as the only road I can think of using for it in Hendersonville would be Walton Ferry which would need serious upgrades. My guess is that it would then connect to Lebanon Rd and I-40 providing a much needed alternate route to the Airport and its offices.

[bzorch]

Looking at the plan from the post last December, there was a discussion that the Streets of Indian Lake would be the centerpiece to this development.

http://www.continental-realestate.com/reta...how=site&pID=56

I can not see how they will bulld a wonderful community around their "moat of parking". Does anyone know of a link to the entire site plan for Indian Lake Village? Where is the connection to the mass transit in the plan?

As for it being built out anytime soon, I think there is a lot of competition up there. So it may take a while. Is there that much disposable income up there? It all comes back to economics.

I can imagine the diference it would make, if this investment was made in downtown Hendersonville. Especially capitalizing on the Lake. An opportunity missed.

[rocket9561]

Looking at the plan from the post last December, there was a discussion that the Streets of Indian Lake would be the centerpiece to this development.

http://www.continental-realestate.com/reta...how=site&pID=56

I can not see how they will bulld a wonderful community around their "moat of parking". Does anyone know of a link to the entire site plan for Indian Lake Village? Where is the connection to the mass transit in the plan?

As for it being built out anytime soon, I think there is a lot of competition up there. So it may take a while. Is there that much disposable income up there? It all comes back to economics.

I can imagine the diference it would make, if this investment was made in downtown Hendersonville. Especially capitalizing on the Lake. An opportunity missed.

There is no downtown Hendersonville. One must remember, Hendersonville is a direct product of Nashville. It only became a city in 1970. But, the town center project seeks to create a downtown Hendersonville. It's a totally separate project.

There is a lot of disposable income in the Hendersonville area. The Pinnacle development is being advertised as Upscale Shopping on billboards around the Nashville area. Tenants of Indian Lake haven't been released yet but I would bet on them being similar to what you would find in Cool Springs. As for transportation, everything I've heard has one Line of Hendersonville's commuter rail stations being in the middle of the development just like Providence in Mt. Juliet...However this could have changed with the massive setbacks the Music City Star has seen and the developer's wish to push forward with this development.

Link to the Pinnacle at Sumner Point News Story(Indian Lake's sister development on the other side of town)

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stor...20/daily14.html

[bzorch]

There is a downtown Hendersonville (Walton Ferry/Main Street (Gallatin Rd) is its historic center). I know it is not much, but the City has chosen to ignore it. Why build your town center on the periphery? Especially, for a City whose motto is

[rocket9561]

There is a downtown Hendersonville (Walton Ferry/Main Street (Gallatin Rd) is its historic center). I know it is not much, but the City has chosen to ignore it. Why build your town center on the periphery? Especially, for a City whose motto is

[bzorch]

Unfortunately, projects like Indian Lake are going to make the town center a tough sell and moving the City Hall just makes it harder. Then you add in all of the other existing and new developments on the periphery it just gets even harder.

If anyone is not familar with the Town Center Plan, it can be found at this address:

http://www.hvilletn.org/planning.aspx

See the Town Center Presentation in the list of links.

[cdub]

I tend to think that we will actually have the best deal on Traffic once the I-65 project is completed and it is actually nearing that. Vietnam Veterans blvd will, after next year, provide a complete bypass of Gallatin Rd. from Rivergate to the Northern boundary of Gallatin.

I'm really curious as to whether or not the I65 completion will actually provide any relief for the congestion. This project has taken so long to complete that we better hope all traffic projections are accurate. I've heard the analogy that expanding interstates is equivalent to "loosening the belt on a fat man." I doubt the projections took into account the explosion of growth this area has seen. We are continually widening roads and there continues to be more and more traffic. When will we, more importantly the Highway Administration and TDOT, realize we're fighting an uphill battle. There need to be investments in other areas. Imagine what the millions in renovating I65 and Briley would have done for a rail system.

Back on topic, its a shame Hendersonville seems to be turning its back on its best asset. More and more, I feel people are wanting more of a community feel, belonging to something. Small communities especially need that place that everyone can congregate other then the parking lot the local grocery/ Walmart. I love how the aerial photo on the development's site use icons of Walmart and Home Depot as town landmarks. Big box retail has been the demise of downtowns big or small. They take away the very character that make places unique.

[rocket9561]

I'm really curious as to whether or not the I65 completion will actually provide any relief for the congestion. This project has taken so long to complete that we better hope all traffic projections are accurate. I've heard the analogy that expanding interstates is equivalent to "loosening the belt on a fat man." I doubt the projections took into account the explosion of growth this area has seen. We are continually widening roads and there continues to be more and more traffic. When will we, more importantly the Highway Administration and TDOT, realize we're fighting an uphill battle. There need to be investments in other areas. Imagine what the millions in renovating I65 and Briley would have done for a rail system.

Back on topic, its a shame Hendersonville seems to be turning its back on its best asset. More and more, I feel people are wanting more of a community feel, belonging to something. Small communities especially need that place that everyone can congregate other then the parking lot the local grocery/ Walmart. I love how the aerial photo on the development's site use icons of Walmart and Home Depot as town landmarks. Big box retail has been the demise of downtowns big or small. They take away the very character that make places unique.

I don't think people are getting the right picture. Hendersonville is NOT turning its back on the lake. Building something the size of Indian Lake Village would be IMPOSSIBLE on the lake. The entire lakeside areas of Hendersonville are covered by homes or parks. We have a huge park system for a city our size. The Town Center Project will utilize the lake as much as it can but most areas are just taken.

Walmart and Home Depot are used because they were the first projects in the Indian Lake area....NOT because they are landmarks.

We aren't a small city. We went from a few Hundred residents in 1970 to what will be a city of 50,000 by 2010. People haven't been here very long and there really hasn't been character to lose. What the city is doing now is actually much better than what happened in most of the rest of this area's history. The Town Center Project could finally give Hendersonville a downtown community center...this is something we never really had. We are also seeing live/work communities on the rise like Sumner Point, Indian Lake, Savannah, etc. We're creating better communites that integrate homes, offices, small shops, etc in tight neighborhoods. We aren't like Franklin, Gallatin, Springfield, or Murfreesboro...We've never had it before. How could we really lose it?