New Annexation

[woco1]

I'm really not intending to be argumentative and hope I don't come across that way.

But define "successful." Is that measured by population growth, per capita income, some economic development measure, total municipal budget, or a "vibrant downtown"? By the same measures, is Greenville "successful," or just better than Spartanburg? Some might say that Spartanburg is successful now. Others might secretly wish they lived in Greenville, just farther east. What's the ultimate goal?

Show me a single streen in Hillbrook inside the city that has streetlights and sidewalks. Look at Hillbrook Drive itself, which is inside the city limits and has been for years. No sidewalks and streetlights there. I just don't see the value add for the increased taxes you pay for city "services." If the city needs additional revenue, they have other options - fees, increased taxes for businesses and residents, fees for the non-profits inside the city, reduced services, etc. Truly this annexation is the "easiest" option politically, even though the majority of those it affects oppose it. I guess Cariveau figures a couple hundred additional city voters isn't enough to cause her to lose the next election.

Now, do I think the county is a pancea? Certainly not. The other poster complained about open burning, which I do not participate in, even though it's my "right" as a county resident. I chose to live in Hillbrook 12 years ago for a number of reasons, but among them was the established neighborhood feel, the value, and the fact it was outside the city. I've taken a gamble that my neighbors won't tear their house down and move in a trailer, or start a junk yard in their back yard. And I still feel pretty safe about my decision. If I lose, pity on me. But I have guarded encouragement that the county is at least starting to give lip service to some of these issues - land use, burning, etc - and while I remain pessimistic of the chances for real change, at least there is some movement now.

Start the flame wars, but I'm a firm believer in city-county consolidation. That would solve a lot of the city's problems. It's worked for plenty of cities - one as close as Augusta, GA. There are already examples of those sorts of partnerships in Spartanburg- Spartanburg 911, EMS, the Library system. And what better time to explore this idea than during one of the worst economic climates in more than 60 years. Schools, fire departments, public works, administration, economic development - could all be streamlined and made more efficient if consolidated sensibly. Instead, our elected and appointed officials look out for their own self-interests and their own turf, and despite these charettes and brainstorm sessions and "vision" meetings, they refuse to consider consolidation.

Show me another similar-sized county with no fewer than 12 municipalities, 40 fire districts, 7 school districts, all essentially working against and competing with each other on most issues. And you wonder why Spartanburg isn't "successful?"

[Spartan]

Good debate is always welcome on this site. All of you are very good about respecting people's opinions while stating your own, and as long as y'all continue this won't devolve into a 'flame war' This topic, probably more than any other, always gets people heated from one side or the other.

I have more to say later.

[Jael]

Show me a single streen in Hillbrook inside the city that has streetlights and sidewalks. Look at Hillbrook Drive itself, which is inside the city limits and has been for years. No sidewalks and streetlights there.

[Spartan]

Unfortunately in Spartanburg, sidewalks are not viewed are a necessity. I'm not sure that I've ever actually seen a sidewalk get built there (as opposed to rebuilt) in an existing neighborhood Maybe in Hampton Heights. Since Hillbrook is so haphazardly annexed, it doesn't make sense to build sidewalk on since there is perhaps one street that is entirely annexed there. If that's something the neighborhood wants, then they should get organized and figure out how to get it.

Woco1- Using any of your criteria for success, you can argue that Spartanburg is not.

In general, I am in favor of consolidating government into one city-county system. The Special Purpose districts that exist dilute democracy. I have an upcoming post about why they are not good for South Carolina. my basic point is that instead of just having a city and county council to answer to, you have multiple other elected positions that I would bet some serious cash nobody knows who runs it or what they do... yet they still vote for them. Anyway, thats a separate topic.

[Sparkleman]

There are actually sidewalks on Webber Road as well as street lamps. Where they are really needed is along Winfield Drive which can be a real mess when folks are out walking. It would also be nice to have them on Hillbrook Drive.

[Spartan]

I would call someone and start tactfully complaining. If you get organized and make your case, something might happen.

The Herald-Journal has a short Op-Ed piece about annexation. They hit the nail on the head as to why these annexations are necessary and how the laws in this state are broken. One thing they don't mention (which may not be necessary to mention) is that the money we get from the state is based on population. If Spartanburg's numbers don't keep up with the proportion of other large cities in South Carolina, then it will get even less money than it already receives.

HJ Editorial

[spartanburgh]

Some of the streets in Hillbrook were annexed from the County many years ago and I wonder if property right of ways would be needed before any sidewalks could be constructed. In the old neighborhoods in the City the property pins are located just behind the sidewalks. This might be one reason it would be difficult to do sidewalks in some annexed areas. If you live in Hillbrook you might already know the answer to this question. If there is enough room for the sidewalks the City should have them installed.

[Spartan]

That is exactly why sidewalks should be required in all neighborhoods when they are built. If there isn't enough room in the ROW then easements can be purchased to build them.

[woco1]

The Herald-Journal has a short Op-Ed piece about annexation. They hit the nail on the head as to why these annexations are necessary and how the laws in this state are broken. One thing they don't mention (which may not be necessary to mention) is that the money we get from the state is based on population. If Spartanburg's numbers don't keep up with the proportion of other large cities in South Carolina, then it will get even less money than it already receives.

HJ Editorial

[vicupstate]

^^

Do you visit or participate in city parks, museums, art centers, festivals, recreation teams/programs? If your car is stolen or vandalized in the city limits, it will be handled by a city policeman. Same thing for fire/rescue etc.

The state collects a long list of taxes on things like gas, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. that are collected statewide but distributed to cities and counties based on there cumulative populations. If Sburg captures (within it's limits) only 50% of the residents that depend on it's services, it gets cheated, versus a city that captures 75 or 80% of the residents that depend on it's services. The pie is neither smaller nor larger (nor your taxes higher or lower), but Spartanburg's slice is smaller relative to it's peer cities, where the city's limits more closely reflect it's true urbanized population.

[drexel]

This is a letter I sent to the H-J almost a year ago:

Market City's Assets.

The city should be more aggressive marketing itself to prospective residents. Newcomers and areas prime for annexation should be made aware of the differences between the city and unincorporated Spartanburg County. This is not a knock on the county, but when I moved here five years ago I incorrectly assumed that Spartanburg County had zoning and other services that existed in my old county. The state's strict annexation laws and mandated local tax restrictions make it nearly impossible for South Carolina cities to grow their tax base; therefore marketing seems to make sense. Beyond the obvious convenience of living close to resturants, shops, parks, entertainment, and special events, here is my top ten reasons for why I think living in the city is well worth the extra tax burden.

1. Years of meaningful zoning. No concerns of a car lot or warehouse being built next door.

2. Street lights provide added security for my neighborhood.

3. Large connecting neighborhoods with mature trees like Woodland Heights, Duncan Park, and Converse Heights.

4. Numerous sidewalks allow me to walk safely from my house to church, school, and the park.

5. Sign height regulations. Roads are more attractive, and don't see commercial signs from my backyard.

6. Garbage and yard waste pickup. Can open windows and not worry about smoke from my neighbor's burning leaves.

7. Curb-side recycle program. More likely to recycle, and do not have to drive to a county recycle center.

8. Mostly bicycle friendly. Can ride a bike for miles without traveling down a busy thoroughfare.

9. Full time paid fire protection for every household.

10. Mayor Bill Barnett is a proactive and visionary leader.

Of course the city has room for improvement, but the aforemention assets give me added confidence that my property value will continue to increase.

[Spartan]

Good points all.

I agree that the city needs to market itself better. Greenville has a specific part of its website dedicated to why it's advantageous to annex into the city. Here's a link.

[woco1]

^^

Do you visit or participate in city parks, museums, art centers, festivals, recreation teams/programs? If your car is stolen or vandalized in the city limits, it will be handled by a city policeman. Same thing for fire/rescue etc.

[Spartan]

Don't base your argument on drexel's opinions. You have not cited any evidence that you won't receive any of these services/benefits, nor that the services won't be an improvement.

[drexel]

It is my understanding that the Hillbrook area that is outside the city limits is covered by the Glendale Fire Department. Do they have a full time profesional staff of fire fighters? (I honestly don't know) I do know that some of the county uses volunteer fire fighters.

[Spartan]

No, the City is the only place in the county with full time paid firefighters. Glendale has volunteer staff, and to their credit they do a good job (I've had some dealings with them).

[woco1]

No, the City is the only place in the county with full time paid firefighters. Glendale has volunteer staff, and to their credit they do a good job (I've had some dealings with them).

[Spartan]

That actually makes sense, since the fire districts each have their own millage rate. That should be enough to cover some staff costs as well as equipment.

[Spartan]

It looks like each neighborhood is getting its own annexation meeting. Shannon Forest had its meeting yesterday. No new info to report, but its good to see city officials using the urban area argument.

I think its interesting that one of the residents said she was afraid that her neighbors would move out if they were annexed. Seems a little extreme to me.

HJ Article

[spartanburgh]

It seems as 983 new properties will be added to the City of Spartanburg by Nov. 1st. Surely this will take Spartanburg over the 40,000 mark in population by 2010. I would like to see a map for the West side showing the new properties like they provided for the Hillbrook area. It will be interesting to see where all these parcels are located and how that could indicate future areas that might be annexed.

[roads-scholar]

I'd love to see Spartanburg's 2010 population be at least equal to the 1960 census figure of 44,352 residents. 40,000, however, will be acceptable.

The good news is that the city's population is finally creeping up. At one time I was concerned that the downward trend would continue.

I used to feel that annexation was the ONLY answer. Now I believe that smart urban planning, good governance, and quality of life in addition to growing the city boundaries are important to the city's long-term and fiscal well being. Spartanburg has acres and acres of open land for infill. Case in point, the area west of Hampton Heights off Daniel Morgan Avenue. This property is grossly underutilized. Another post mentioned the Girl Scout Camp off Camelot Drive.

[Spartan]

We should be well over 40,000 again for the 2010 Census.

If you do the math, the average household size in Spartanburg is 2.33, so assuming 1 house per parcel and 983 parcels, that gives you 2290 new residents alone. If you account for new housing, old housing that is being renovated, and other miscellaneous annexations over the past 10 years too then that number goes up even more. I'm guessing the population will be close to 42,000 after the 2010 Census.

[spartanburgh]

The demographics of these areas should really help Spartanburg too. The average income, education levels etc. should tweek up and help make Spartanburg more attractive for investors. I wonder if Spartanburg will ever top the 50,000 population mark that would get the City to the next level. Spartanburg Sanitary Sewer took over the City Sewer service so annexations like these 983 may not be possible anymore and could be Spartanburg's last shot at significant annexation in the future unless laws are changed.

[Spartan]

That's a good question. The SSSD is still technically in existance, as is the old City Water Works. They just co-exist with the Water System. New annexation agreements are still required if they use the city's portion of the service (as opposed to the Water System).

[Ezekiel]

This is probably wishful thinking, but I'd like to see the old mill communities adjacent to the city brought into the city limits: Una, Saxon, Arcadia, Beaumont, Whitney, and Drayton. It's humbling to realize that Rock Hill has surpassed Spartanburg and now has close to 65,000 people.