New Urban Village Near Scaleybark Light Rail Station

[dubone]

I'm glad. I really want Pappas's team to win, as it includes affordable housing (talk about transit oriented development) as well as density, strong retail, and designs and a siteplan that I loved, in comparison to mild apathy with the BofA Furman team.

Considering that the public money the Pappas is requesting is fairly standard (simple street updates for an area that will exponentially increase in population) and public funds for affordable housing (which the public almost always cover).

The article implies that Pappas+ already own the extra land they would include beyond the city land. It would be very interesting if BofA/Furman wins the competition, and then Pappas and Crosland build their own developments on the land they already control around the station. If that were possible, and they could truly make it work, that might be the best, as we wouldn't have too much same-ness.

[monsoon]

I don't understand this myself. I would have thought the developers would be falling all over themselves to get the rights to develop this particular piece of property.

[Charlotte_native]

I don't understand this myself. I would have thought the developers would be falling all over themselves to get the rights to develop this particular piece of property.

[queensguy06]

Hey dubone, what is the BofA/Furman proposal looking like, and how does it differ from Pappas's proposal?

[dubone]

I wish they were online, but I don't see them. Scaleybark Partners, which combines Charlotte Housing Partners, Cherokee, Pappas, and a few others is denser, taller, and more gridded. It is definitely in the same vein as their Met-Midtown project, with 6-8 story buildings, significant street retail frontage, gridded streets, more units and density, and a retail-lined park leading between the LRT station and the large park and ride deck.

The Bank of America/Furman project was pretty much just townhouses and buildings of 3-4 stories. The renderings were much like residential First Ward. There is nothing particularly wrong with this, but in my view was simply far inferior to the other. The renderings had much of the standard Furman look, which, again, is fine and good, but didn't seem to be a place-making design.

By selecting the Scaleybark Partners (Pappas+ ), I believe we get more of a place that can define the entire area.

[dubone]

Here is the general idea of the siteplan that Pappas++ has for the area. They would encompass more land, pretty much all the land on the west side of South that doesn't front Tryon. Note that this is just from memory, so there could be some minor variations in street and building locations in the actual plan, but I wanted to express the general idea. The scale of the buildings was in the 6-8 story level, so think of the scale of Gateway Village.

[monsoon]

What confuses me about that drawing is how are they going to put a LRT platform "between" the two lanes on South Blvd? With the tracks there there hardly seems to be enough room for two platforms. Is there a more detailed design? Other than that, if that is the plan for the area then I am for it. Unfortunately I have been less than impressed with Pappas' designs so hopefully this will representative of what will be built there. On the corner of Freeland and South there is a strip mall there and the parking lot is where you show retail. Would that strip mall be torn down?

[dubone]

The LRT station platforms are starting to be built now, so maybe Mobuchu or another can take a photo of that. There isn't a lot of room, though. I may have the exact location of the station wrong, it might be a little north of where I showed it, but it is definitely in that vicinity, and also definitely in the median of South.

I really do hope that the city would post the proposals. They will discuss them on the 22nd, so maybe they'll be shown then.

[nowensone]

If the placement of the station is accurate, I wonder why the parking garage is not planned to be adjacent to the station (abutting South blvd), with the park on the remainder of that lot and therefore facing the residential on the other side of Dewitt? I know this is partially my park-and-ride mentality, but seems like a waste to have the park abut the station on one side, a parking garage on the other, and retail on the other two sides when it could abut two sides of retail and another of residential, and place the parking garage right next to the station for better transit access.

[uptownliving]

What confuses me about that drawing is how are they going to put a LRT platform "between" the two lanes on South Blvd? With the tracks there there hardly seems to be enough room for two platforms. Is there a more detailed design?

[uptownliving]

If the placement of the station is accurate, I wonder why the parking garage is not planned to be adjacent to the station (abutting South blvd), with the park on the remainder of that lot and therefore facing the residential on the other side of Dewitt?

[Charlotte_native]

I didn't realize any of these plans had a hotel in them, I think that is great for the area.

[nowensone]

This layout forces the commuters to walk by the street level retail on their way back to their car in the parking deck....maybe just maybe, something will catch their eyes, and they might stop in and buy something.

They could have pushed the parking deck to the front of the property along South...but in my opinion that would have been an ugly "front door" to the project...since most people will be viewing it from South Blvd.

[dubone]

I didn't realize any of these plans had a hotel in them, I think that is great for the area.

[Charlotte_native]

Yes, and also a grocer. But the hotel is only in Pappas/Scaleybark Partners proposal. They said they had someone lined up if things go through.

[monsoon]

I have concerns about people being asked to stand in the middle of South Blvd on a concrete platform to wait on a train. It's not going to be a very nice place to stand most of the time.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Run like a chicken across the road.

I do not plan to use this station if I have to dodge cars and buses on South Blvd.

This is the biggest mess I have seen on this LRT project. The city says it opens up the west side of the rails by having South Blvd. going down the middle.

[Mobuchu]

I took some pics on the way home to clear up any confusion on the layout of this area. Until walking around the site today I had not realized how HUGE this property is. Its long from freeland to Clanton and fairly deep too.

1-19-07

1. I tried to get as much in as possible. The property runs all the way to Clanton which you can barely see the intersection on South Blvd. Notice the LRT station is accross from the north side of the strip mall. It runs from Whitton st. to about 100ft from Freeland Ave. (there was a fire of some kind toward S. Tryon, just so you all know thats not pollution...)

2. This is from the south side of the station. Clanton is way up where cars are crossing South blvd.

3. Southbound side of station.

4. Northbound side of station.

5. Close look at the platform (so far).

6. Dewitt st. Did not know they finished this either, Clanton is in the far back.

7. And for fun, the Queen Park sign, which I believe will be moved to another location?

[Mobuchu]

Run like a chicken across the road.

I do not plan to use this station if I have to dodge cars and buses on South Blvd.

This is the biggest mess I have seen on this LRT project. The city says it opens up the west side of the rails by having South Blvd. going down the middle.

[MZT]

It's only 2 lanes of traffic to walk over, with no side parking. Traffic will be moving steadily without blind spots. So I really don't think it will be that bad for pedestrians. And running the tracks down the middle makes getting to the platforms equally easy (or difficult, depending on how you see it) while everywhere else on South Blvd, the land on the east side of the street will feel much more separated.

By the way, I've walked around the Woodlawn and Tyvola intersections recently, and I do feel like the islands that were added make them feel more friendly to pedestrians.

[revitalize]

Check out the renderings on the CATS website, looks like they'll add street trees, railings, and overhead shelters at the station to make it feel safer being so close to the traffic lanes. Looks welcoming to me........

[moving uptown]

the pappas rendering was kinda cool - the best part was how the park and ride folks had to walk by the retail and through the part to get to the station. that is exactly what the folks on this board promote.

however, will there really be a substantial number of people driving to this station to park and ride? just curious

[monsoon]

Check out the renderings on the CATS website, looks like they'll add street trees, railings, and overhead shelters at the station to make it feel safer being so close to the traffic lanes. Looks welcoming to me........

[A2]

That rendering is pretty old and like we have seen before on this forum, technicolor renderings and what actually gets built are often light years apart. I got a good look at those concrete pads today and I have to say this is probably one of the worst designs for a transit station that I have ever seen. it's obvious what they are trying to do, but they screwed up the implementation as it doesn't take into account the shear volume of traffic on South Blvd, and there is simply not enough space there. Those pads are not that wide and they are right up on S. Blvd and the train tracks. Furthermore there is no easy access to the other side in case you want to go in the opposite direction. I am wondering if this is another screwup related to the same screw ups were there were structural problems in the 485 parking deck. It's like the person who laid it out had no idea what they were doing and nobody in authority said, "you can't do that"?

[MZT]

I think the pads are narrower than that, for the Los Angeles Blue line in parts of Long Beach or for the San Francisco MUNI. We're just not used to seeing it here.

It's not any worse than waiting for the bus is already.