More Job Losses

[ctman987]

Across Connecticut jobs are being lost. In the past few weeks Winchester Repeating Arms announced its closing in New Haven, a New Haven Stop & Shop distribution facility is closing leaving close to 900 workers without jobs, Hitchcock Furniture announced it will be closing it retail stores, Elelctric Boat announced about 170 layoffs soon, LEGO announced layoffs, CIGNA announced layoffs and today Saint Paul Travelers announced about 100 IT jobs will be cut.

There are new businesses and growth of businesses but there is not a balance in the ones closing and the ones opening. On a good note Walgreens announced it will build a 175 million dollar distribution center in Windsor and ING is still staying in CT.

Does anybody have there own ideas about how Connecticut most importantly its cities can attract the well paying jobs it needs? This meaning any kind of job not just the insurance industry which Hartford is known for.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

Across Connecticut jobs are being lost. In the past few weeks Winchester Repeating Arms announced its closing in New Haven, a New Haven Stop & Shop distribution facility is closing leaving close to 900 workers without jobs, Hitchcock Furniture announced it will be closing it retail stores, Elelctric Boat announced about 170 layoffs soon, LEGO announced layoffs, CIGNA announced layoffs and today Saint Paul Travelers announced about 100 IT jobs will be cut.

There are new businesses and growth of businesses but there is not a balance in the ones closing and the ones opening. On a good note Walgreens announced it will build a 175 million dollar distribution center in Windsor and ING is still staying in CT.

Does anybody have there own ideas about how Connecticut most importantly its cities can attract the well paying jobs it needs? This meaning any kind of job not just the insurance industry which Hartford is known for.

Actually, it looks like Saint Paul Travelers will be ADDING jobs this year:

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-travjob...dlines-business

[Kelly]

There was an interesting forum yesterday at the LOB sponsored by the Commerce Committee, on revamping the state's economic development organizations, and your issue was one of several raised. I'm working on a good answer, but for now, I can only say that there is an obvious tension between keeping the cost of doing business low enough to attract and retain employers, tax rates, and the cost of things that go to quality of life we say we have and want to continue to provide (landscape, good schools, parks, libraries, decent roads, and the like).

I think we need to ratchet up our commitment to innovation in a very big way. Since about 40% of our workforce is expected to come from our urban cores by 2020, we may want to start by doing whatever it takes to get inner city kids to stay in school and excel there.

[this is one of my first posts - apologies if I have bungled the format]

Across Connecticut jobs are being lost. In the past few weeks Winchester Repeating Arms announced its closing in New Haven, a New Haven Stop & Shop distribution facility is closing leaving close to 900 workers without jobs, Hitchcock Furniture announced it will be closing it retail stores, Elelctric Boat announced about 170 layoffs soon, LEGO announced layoffs, CIGNA announced layoffs and today Saint Paul Travelers announced about 100 IT jobs will be cut.

There are new businesses and growth of businesses but there is not a balance in the ones closing and the ones opening. On a good note Walgreens announced it will build a 175 million dollar distribution center in Windsor and ING is still staying in CT.

Does anybody have there own ideas about how Connecticut most importantly its cities can attract the well paying jobs it needs? This meaning any kind of job not just the insurance industry which Hartford is known for.

[drc72]

CT is to expensive to do business in. Take a look at business costs in other states and compare it to CT. It's no wonder companies want to leave.

[JimSawhill]

CT is to expensive to do business in. Take a look at business costs in other states and compare it to CT. It's no wonder companies want to leave.

True, drc72. Florida is adding jobs !! MetLife is creating jobs in Tampa. Stop & Shop is closinfg the North Haven center. That is goinmg to be tough on the RAILROAD. I think Ford built a PARTS WAREHOUSE (or was going to) in Windsor Locks.

[drc72]

True, drc72. Florida is adding jobs !! MetLife is creating jobs in Tampa. Stop & Shop is closinfg the North Haven center. That is goinmg to be tough on the RAILROAD. I think Ford built a PARTS WAREHOUSE (or was going to) in Windsor Locks.

The Dems in the state legislature seem to think that raising taxes won't have any effect on the business climate. Look how many companies have left in the past 10 years. And they still don't get it?

[JimSawhill]

The Dems in the state legislature seem to think that raising taxes won't have any effect on the business climate. Look how many companies have left in the past 10 years. And they still don't get it?

drc72:

Very true. Here in Florida the Democrats aren't trying to raise TAXES (of course they are the MINORITY PARTY here as opposed to Connecticut, which runs the state.) but even they (Florida's Dems) are fiscally conservative.

JimS

[drc72]

drc72:

Very true. Here in Florida the Democrats aren't trying to raise TAXES (of course they are the MINORITY PARTY here as opposed to Connecticut, which runs the state.) but even they (Florida's Dems) are fiscally conservative.

JimS

Democrats here are as liberal as you can get, and far from social conservative.

[JimSawhill]

Democrats here are as liberal as you can get, and far from social conservative.

drc:

So true!! I mean when the leading Democrat from the state (Joe Lieberman) is being CHALLENGED by someone to the LEFT of him, you know the Dems are out of touch! If the Dems wants to raise taxes...businesses would leave to better states.

Here a state legistator died yesterday (may 22nd), he was a state senator from Plant City, he was a Democrat - served until 1978, when he was told he had cancer. The Republicans in the 1970s wanted him to switch, but he said to the GOP -- you are too LIBERAL for me.

Anyway, the people of Connecticut got to wake up and see that states are gaining jobs. Tampa just got 500 MetLife jobs and Jabil Circuits (an electronic firm) is advertising they are HIRING. In my line of work, I was talking to 6 families who moved to Tampa -- 1 family from Norway, 1 from South Africa, 1 from Russia, 1 from Zaire and 2 from Sweden, and they all moved to start businesses ...and they know Florida will beless taxes.

Florida's unemployment is at 3.7 %.

JimS

[damus]

I don't agree with you on everything, Jim, but on this I do. In Lieberman's ads he touts how he's against ANWR drilling then goes on to say that he's for energy independence. It's sooooooooo stupid.

Having said that, I think the morons in charge aren't all that great. The Iraq war I still support ... Clinton had the same concerns about Sadaam when he was president and you cannot prove that Syria didn't take in Sadaam's weapons. My problem with these morons, other than their disregard to conservative/libertarian small government principles is their (lack of a) resonse to Katrina. Disgraceful. Why haven't Mayor Nagin, the Gov. of Lousiana, and the feds been punished over that?

[HartfordTycoon]

If the big business republicans would stop looking the other way as our middle class is destroyed and our economy is being shipped overseas maybe we could keep jobs from leaving the country. That would be a big help in this regard.

[drc72]

If the big business republicans would stop looking the other way as our middle class is destroyed and our economy is being shipped overseas maybe we could keep jobs from leaving the country. That would be a big help in this regard.

HartfordTycoon CT really needs to revamp the tax structure. This state has so much potential, it's unbelievable. We have an educated workforce, where a high technology state, and many great universities are located here. but yet we tax the hell out of everybody making it undesirable for companies to wanna be here. I bet if we had low taxes and Hartford had a competitive property tax structure which didn't penalize, we probably would of seen all those beautiful skyscrapers that where proposed in the eighties, and maybe more.

[Jerry2]

HartfordTycoon CT really needs to revamp the tax structure. This state has so much potential, it's unbelievable. We have an educated workforce, where a high technology state, and many great universities are located here. but yet we tax the hell out of everybody making it undesirable for companies to wanna be here. I bet if we had low taxes and Hartford had a competitive property tax structure which didn't penalize, we probably would of seen all those beautiful skyscrapers that where proposed in the eighties, and maybe more.

All those skyscrapers that weren't built were the result of a real estae market that crashed. (very similar to 1 that this whole region will be going thru very soon) Taxes had nothing to do with it. The economies are stronger in places like NC and GA now because the cost of living is less expensive. When demand exceeds supply, the cost of living and prices soar. These areas have plenty of supply and the cost of living has remained low. When people keep demand for places like GA and NC and the rates rise to 8,9,10%, you will see the prices skyrocket and the demand for those areas slowly diminish. Developers are not going to go through with a project if they don't think they can fulfill it. CT is not the worst place to do business. It doesn;t have the highest taxes in the nation. The money that's allocated to the state is not properly distributed or distributed among hundreds of tiny communities that strain the fiscal budget. ( same all over NE) Hence, taxes could be lower than they already are. The one asset that the NE hasn't built upon is a solid transportation strategy. Those assets should be better built upon and used to attract more people to the area rather than building new roads and highways for places like Utopia. More people=more $$=less taxes. Whether Stamford gained a few people or whatever, the population growth is stagnant and that's what will stabilize taxes.

[drc72]

All those skyscrapers that weren't built were the result of a real estae market that crashed. (very similar to 1 that this whole region will be going thru very soon) Taxes had nothing to do with it. The economies are stronger in places like NC and GA now because the cost of living is less expensive. When demand exceeds supply, the cost of living and prices soar. These areas have plenty of supply and the cost of living has remained low. When people keep demand for places like GA and NC and the rates rise to 8,9,10%, you will see the prices skyrocket and the demand for those areas slowly diminish. Developers are not going to go through with a project if they don't think they can fulfill it. CT is not the worst place to do business. It doesn;t have the highest taxes in the nation. The money that's allocated to the state is not properly distributed or distributed among hundreds of tiny communities that strain the fiscal budget. ( same all over NE) Hence, taxes could be lower than they already are. The one asset that the NE hasn't built upon is a solid transportation strategy. Those assets should be better built upon and used to attract more people to the area rather than building new roads and highways for places like Utopia. More people=more $$=less taxes. Whether Stamford gained a few people or whatever, the population growth is stagnant and that's what will stabilize taxes.

I hope your right man.

[HartfordTycoon]

I hope your right man.

I think he is right on about a lot in that post. The taxes are not nearly as big an issue as the big business republicans would have you beleive. They are simply greedy and want to maximize profit at everyone's expense (meaning me and you). That's why they keep the white collar jobs in the states and send all the blue collar ones overseas. Even though I am an insurance professional, I don't consider myself anywhere near the level of some white collar big shot. I'm an quantifyable commodity at my job, and they are trying to figure out to get computers to underwrite for us anyway. I think the high cost of living is definately more to blame for our poor business climate in the Northeast. Like I've said before, American companies that value Americans and don't outsource should get the tax breaks. Not the ones sending our economy overseas, they should be taxed at a higher rate and if they want to move their headquarters out of the country let them, the trade laws should then give "real" American companies a definitive advantage over these traiterous companies. Don't Reward Bad Corporate Behavior. It's what's killing America.

[damus]

Don't Reward Bad Corporate Behavior. It's what's killing America.

I think the government has been encouraging outsourcing after taking down all those "trade barriers" over the past 15 years. Clinton and Bush are pretty much on the same page with that one. I'm no economist, but The Economist magazine does show that median income has risen as a direct result of free trade/outsourcing. It enriches both countries involved.

[HartfordTycoon]

I think the government has been encouraging outsourcing after taking down all those "trade barriers" over the past 15 years. Clinton and Bush are pretty much on the same page with that one. I'm no economist, but The Economist magazine does show that median income has risen as a direct result of free trade/outsourcing. It enriches both countries involved.

I also am no economist but from what I've read the gap between rich and poor is widening at an alarming rate. Americans with limited education now have fewer options to earn a living than ever before. These are recipes for disaster and massive civil unrest down the line. We need to address this. Anyway, just my views from this side of the isle. You right leaning guys see things differently. Trickle down. Reward the rich and they will make everything OK, right?

[jcrc]

I think he is right on about a lot in that post. The taxes are not nearly as big an issue as the big business republicans would have you beleive. They are simply greedy and want to maximize profit at everyone's expense (meaning me and you). That's why they keep the white collar jobs in the states and send all the blue collar ones overseas. Even though I am an insurance professional, I don't consider myself anywhere near the level of some white collar big shot. I'm an quantifyable commodity at my job, and they are trying to figure out to get computers to underwrite for us anyway. I think the high cost of living is definately more to blame for our poor business climate in the Northeast. Like I've said before, American companies that value Americans and don't outsource should get the tax breaks. Not the ones sending our economy overseas, they should be taxed at a higher rate and if they want to move their headquarters out of the country let them, the trade laws should then give "real" American companies a definitive advantage over these traiterous companies. Don't Reward Bad Corporate Behavior. It's what's killing America.

I also am no economist but from what I've read the gap between rich and poor is widening at an alarming rate. Americans with limited education now have fewer options to earn a living than ever before. These are recipes for disaster and massive civil unrest down the line. We need to address this. Anyway, just my views from this side of the isle. You right leaning guys see things differently. Trickle down. Reward the rich and they will make everything OK, right?

What you are advocating is protectionism, and it won't work. It is bad for the US and bad for the rest of the world. It has been proven time and again protectionism was what caused the Great Depression of 1930's. In a free market/capitalism economy, companies are always searching for the most efficient way to allocate their resources. Profit maximization is the goal. America's manufacturing jobs first went from NE to South, then to overseas. In fact, in global economy those jobs that Americans cannot compete effectively because of regulations and high wages has been and will continue to shift to countries that have competitive advantages over the US. Americans with limited education can work in jobs that cannot move to overseas, or they can get a education so that they can compete. US gives its citizens the freedom to pursue happiness, it never guaranteed happiness. Unless a company is selling sensitive information/technologies/products that are against the law, and to the detriment of national defense, there is no such thing as traitorous company. Nike, for example have all of there sneakers made overseas, and sell them all over the world, and bring wealth to this country and to their shareholders, are they a traitor? ING is leaving Hartford to its suburb, are they are traitor to Hartford? Or is it Hartford is no longer an attractive place for them? On a more personal level, in your shop, how many devices are made in America. Are you running a traitorous company? We are in a global economy, companies have every right to buy from and produce from the cheapest source. When I go shopping I try to buy things that have the best quality at the lowest price. If they are foreign made, then so be it. I don't expect businesses to do anything but the same.

Regarding the rich is getting richer, and the poor is getting poor. That is a myth. The percentage of Americans that are classified as rich, middle class, and poor has remained relatively stable since WWII. The distribution of wealth in real term is much more even today than the days of Robber Barons. Bill Gate's wealth for example is nothing compare to the likes of Rockefeller, and JP Morgan. And there is no tax break for the rich either. I heard former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, someone who is as liberal as they get, on a NPR show awhile ago. He noted since income tax was instituted, as the years progressed, the rich is paying a larger and larger share of tax revenues, while the middle class is contributing less and less, and the poor never contributed but and get what they can from welfare. If you look at the Federal expenditures, the biggest tax break goes to the middle class. But they are not tax break, they are "entitlement". This country owes a lot to the successful businesses, and the rich who have made the US the richest nation is history. It's just not fair to bash them.

[HartfordTycoon]

What you are advocating is protectionism, and it won't work. It is bad for the US and bad for the rest of the world. It has been proven time and again protectionism was what caused the Great Depression of 1930's. In a free market/capitalism economy, companies are always searching for the most efficient way to allocate their resources. Profit maximization is the goal. America's manufacturing jobs first went from NE to South, then to overseas. In fact, in global economy those jobs that Americans cannot compete effectively because of regulations and high wages has been and will continue to shift to countries that have competitive advantages over the US. Americans with limited education can work in jobs that cannot move to overseas, or they can get a education so that they can compete. US gives its citizens the freedom to pursue happiness, it never guaranteed happiness. Unless a company is selling sensitive information/technologies/products that are against the law, and to the detriment of national defense, there is no such thing as traitorous company. Nike, for example have all of there sneakers made overseas, and sell them all over the world, and bring wealth to this country and to their shareholders, are they a traitor? ING is leaving Hartford to its suburb, are they are traitor to Hartford? Or is it Hartford is no longer an attractive place for them? On a more personal level, in your shop, how many devices are made in America. Are you running a traitorous company? We are in a global economy, companies have every right to buy from and produce from the cheapest source. When I go shopping I try to buy things that have the best quality at the lowest price. If they are foreign made, then so be it. I don't expect businesses to do anything but the same.

Regarding the rich is getting richer, and the poor is getting poor. That is a myth. The percentage of Americans that are classified as rich, middle class, and poor has remained relatively stable since WWII. The distribution of wealth in real term is much more even today than the days of Robber Barons. Bill Gate's wealth for example is nothing compare to the likes of Rockefeller, and JP Morgan. And there is no tax break for the rich either. I heard former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, someone who is as liberal as they get, on a NPR show awhile ago. He noted since income tax was instituted, as the years progressed, the rich is paying a larger and larger share of tax revenues, while the middle class is contributing less and less, and the poor never contributed but and get what they can from welfare. If you look at the Federal expenditures, the biggest tax break goes to the middle class. But they are not tax break, they are "entitlement". This country owes a lot to the successful businesses, and the rich who have made the US the richest nation is history. It's just not fair to bash them.

You make some valid points but I will never see it that way. I do believe in a free market, but when Travelers fires it's entire American IT forces, then brings in some guys from India to work as "independant contractors" with no benefits, I consider that to be wrong. I understand why they have to make that decision, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Even if we did not harshly penalize companies for outsourcing there should surely be some relief for companies who make it more of a priority to keep more jobs in America with Americans. That's really all I'm saying.

As for the widening of the income gap being a myth, I really doubt that. I don't have time to research it now, but will. And if the only way to compete in American Society is to get an Education shouldn't there be a way to do it without getting in over your head in debt? My student loans are a tremendous burden on me and truthfully considering my debt, I am behind most people who did not go the college in terms of net worth with no real gaurantee that I will ever catch up. If the average American can no longer afford to live the American lifestyle, our economy will go into recession and could eventually another depression. I think that's where we are headed right now. How long can we sustain a trade deficit? How long can Americans continue to finance their lifestyle on credit without the assets to back it up? I don't have those answers, I hope someone does.

I by no means want to destroy big business, however I am very troubled by what I see going on in the economy. There is a culture of deception and curruption in corporate America. If anyone says there is not, you haven't worked in it. This is what we need to address. We need some good ol' ethics back in this country.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I noticed on the bizjournals.com site that the Raleigh-Durham metro alone has grown by 43,000 new jobs in just two years. What are they doing that Hartford, Connecticut, or New England can do?!?

[HartfordTycoon]

I noticed on the bizjournals.com site that the Raleigh-Durham metro alone has grown by 43,000 new jobs in just two years. What are they doing that Hartford, Connecticut, or New England can do?!?

Cost of living. We can't create affordable and attractive housing stock the way that the south can. In the northeast we (I know you know this being in Philly) actually have more overpriced but substandard housing. Some of the apartments that go for market rate in CT would have to be section 8 in areas like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Raleigh-Duhram. There was actually an article in the Courant this weeks about how the average person in CT making the median per capita income, cannot afford a mortage in the community they already live in (I make way more than the median income in Hartford, but can't currently afford anything I would want). That's a huge problem for attracting new residents to fill new jobs. We have tons of insurance jobs that we can't even fill. You know when you think about it, it's crazy. I know for a fact that plenty of people in Atlanta are on section 8 and have apartments that are nicer than many professionals in the Northeast.

[jcrc]

You make some valid points but I will never see it that way. I do believe in a free market, but when Travelers fires it's entire American IT forces, then brings in some guys from India to work as "independant contractors" with no benefits, I consider that to be wrong. I understand why they have to make that decision, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Even if we did not harshly penalize companies for outsourcing there should surely be some relief for companies who make it more of a priority to keep more jobs in America with Americans. That's really all I'm saying.

As for the widening of the income gap being a myth, I really doubt that. I don't have time to research it now, but will. And if the only way to compete in American Society is to get an Education shouldn't there be a way to do it without getting in over your head in debt? My student loans are a tremendous burden on me and truthfully considering my debt, I am behind most people who did not go the college in terms of net worth with no real gaurantee that I will ever catch up. If the average American can no longer afford to live the American lifestyle, our economy will go into recession and could eventually another depression. I think that's where we are headed right now. How long can we sustain a trade deficit? How long can Americans continue to finance their lifestyle on credit without the assets to back it up? I don't have those answers, I hope someone does.

I by no means want to destroy big business, however I am very troubled by what I see going on in the economy. There is a culture of deception and curruption in corporate America. If anyone says there is not, you haven't worked in it. This is what we need to address. We need some good ol' ethics back in this country.

The culture of deception and curruption is everywhere. In corporate America, it is call advertising. In politic, it is call campaign promises. It's been like this forever.

In the good old day for IT professionals, they changed jobs every 3 years and get a pay hike of $10K. I didn't hear anyone gripe about those greedy employees who put money above all else. It is employment by will, and now the circle is completed, they have priced themselves out of market, and if those Indians are willing work for less with no benifits, then why shouldn't the corporate America hire them? If you are shopping for an ipod. One place charge 250, another place charge 200 for the same thing, where would you buy your ipod from? It is as simple as that. If you think we should subsidze kinder gentler corperation, just look at France where there is a no lay off law. How is their economy doing? And what is their unemployment rate compare to ours?

I went through college while working for a large company, my brother waited on table in order to paid for his under grad. He borrowed money for med school, and has since paid it off. You can get your education without pile on debts. And there are high paying jobs out there if you have the skill set. If you just graduated from pharmcy school, you can expect minimum offer in 6 figures. If you can barely speak or write, there is McDonald's. The choice is made by individuals, not by society.

[HartfordTycoon]

The culture of deception and curruption is everywhere. In corporate America, it is call advertising. In politic, it is call campaign promises. It's been like this forever.

In the good old day for IT professionals, they changed jobs every 3 years and get a pay hike of $10K. I didn't hear anyone gripe about those greedy employees who put money above all else. It is employment by will, and now the circle is completed, they have priced themselves out of market, and if those Indians are willing work for less with no benifits, then why shouldn't the corporate America hire them? If you are shopping for an ipod. One place charge 250, another place charge 200 for the same thing, where would you buy your ipod from? It is as simple as that. If you think we should subsidze kinder gentler corperation, just look at France where there is a no lay off law. How is their economy doing? And what is their unemployment rate compare to ours?

I went through college while working for a large company, my brother waited on table in order to paid for his under grad. He borrowed money for med school, and has since paid it off. You can get your education without pile on debts. And there are high paying jobs out there if you have the skill set. If you just graduated from pharmcy school, you can expect minimum offer in 6 figures. If you can barely speak or write, there is McDonald's. The choice is made by individuals, not by society.

Fair enough. To sum it up though I just think we need to restore some balance. My real point is that I don't support any more tax cuts for major corporations. You wanna be an American you pay the price just like me and you.

I'm an Underwriter and one coverage I write is D&O(directors and officers liability). I review financial statements every day and maybe it just amazes me how much money is being thrown around freely while people in America starve and don't have healthcare. I'm a liberal so stuff like that bothers me ( I know you conservatives are thick skinned). I know that we can hold our corporations to a higher standard than we currently do without the bottom falling out. I also know that America is dismal in many social service areas that European countries and Canada succeed in. What do they have that we don't? Why can they have better access to health care when our economy dwarfs theirs? I just have to wonder. I'm not an expert, these are just my opinions.

[drc72]

What you are advocating is protectionism, and it won't work. It is bad for the US and bad for the rest of the world. It has been proven time and again protectionism was what caused the Great Depression of 1930's. In a free market/capitalism economy, companies are always searching for the most efficient way to allocate their resources. Profit maximization is the goal. America's manufacturing jobs first went from NE to South, then to overseas. In fact, in global economy those jobs that Americans cannot compete effectively because of regulations and high wages has been and will continue to shift to countries that have competitive advantages over the US. Americans with limited education can work in jobs that cannot move to overseas, or they can get a education so that they can compete. US gives its citizens the freedom to pursue happiness, it never guaranteed happiness. Unless a company is selling sensitive information/technologies/products that are against the law, and to the detriment of national defense, there is no such thing as traitorous company. Nike, for example have all of there sneakers made overseas, and sell them all over the world, and bring wealth to this country and to their shareholders, are they a traitor? ING is leaving Hartford to its suburb, are they are traitor to Hartford? Or is it Hartford is no longer an attractive place for them? On a more personal level, in your shop, how many devices are made in America. Are you running a traitorous company? We are in a global economy, companies have every right to buy from and produce from the cheapest source. When I go shopping I try to buy things that have the best quality at the lowest price. If they are foreign made, then so be it. I don't expect businesses to do anything but the same.

Regarding the rich is getting richer, and the poor is getting poor. That is a myth. The percentage of Americans that are classified as rich, middle class, and poor has remained relatively stable since WWII. The distribution of wealth in real term is much more even today than the days of Robber Barons. Bill Gate's wealth for example is nothing compare to the likes of Rockefeller, and JP Morgan. And there is no tax break for the rich either. I heard former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich, someone who is as liberal as they get, on a NPR show awhile ago. He noted since income tax was instituted, as the years progressed, the rich is paying a larger and larger share of tax revenues, while the middle class is contributing less and less, and the poor never contributed but and get what they can from welfare. If you look at the Federal expenditures, the biggest tax break goes to the middle class. But they are not tax break, they are "entitlement". This country owes a lot to the successful businesses, and the rich who have made the US the richest nation is history. It's just not fair to bash them.

You make a lot of great points.

[drc72]

Fair enough. To sum it up though I just think we need to restore some balance. My real point is that I don't support any more tax cuts for major corporations. You wanna be an American you pay the price just like me and you.

I'm an Underwriter and one coverage I write is D&O(directors and officers liability). I review financial statements every day and maybe it just amazes me how much money is being thrown around freely while people in America starve and don't have healthcare. I'm a liberal so stuff like that bothers me ( I know you conservatives are thick skinned). I know that we can hold our corporations to a higher standard than we currently do without the bottom falling out. I also know that America is dismal in many social service areas that European countries and Canada succeed in. What do they have that we don't? Why can they have better access to health care when our economy dwarfs theirs? I just have to wonder. I'm not an expert, these are just my opinions.

The reason our economy is better is because we don't have the amount of social services that Europe has. Europeon countries tax a lot more than we do to support these programs, even with the amount of high taxes we have. Do you really want to accelerate social programs here at the expense of our economy? I sure as hell don't. I'm not saying that the poor shouldn't be helped, they should be helped. It's the lazy people collecting welfare, when their fully capable of looking for a job that bothers me. We should help the poor access all the wonderful opportunities that this country offers.