GRFord Int'l Airport Expansion

[metrogrkid]

Check out the article about Ford's new expansion project:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...0640.xml&coll=6

NICE. I'd like to get feedback on what UP-GR members think about integrating the SE fixed guideway transit project's SouthEast Endpoint into this ramp structure. In my capacity as a member of the GT2 Steering Committee for the fixed guideway piece, I am trying to garner support now from the public for ITP to work with the County and Aeronautics Boards to be forward-thinking enough to plan for such a common-sensical linkage of transit modes. TALK TO ME (and somebody try to get the SWEET Gresham Smith and Partners rendering of this project ) . . . .

-Metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

Here's at least the rendering:

I think it would be difficult to include in the plans a staging/receiving area for a mass transit system that hasn't been designed yet. There are so many variables that may come up. Do you provide area for turnaround, or a "loop" (since it's the end of the line), or would a future system go back in reverse? So many unknowns.

[NorthCoast]

Here's at least the rendering:

I think it would be difficult to include in the plans a staging/receiving area for a mass transit system that hasn't been designed yet. There are so many variables that may come up. Do you provide area for turnaround, or a "loop" (since it's the end of the line), or would a future system go back in reverse? So many unknowns.

The metro in Washington runs out past Reagan International into the suburbs of Virginia and just dead ends and then runs in reverse. This approach could make sense b/c it would more than likely take up less space.

[GaryP]

I'd rather the transit line connect to the ticket/check in area if that would be possible. We want people to just skip the car step don't we?

If we get the transit line, I'll probably never park at the airport again. I wonder if the airport guys have even considered that.

[GRDadof3]

That's my point though. How do you design the ramp around a system that doesn't exist yet, or hasnt' been decided yet? I hate being the negative one

[metrogrkid]

That's my point though. How do you design the ramp around a system that doesn't exist yet, or hasnt' been decided yet? I hate being the negative one

THINK "LEGO SET". The ramp can be designed - if it is deemed as important - with a module or footprint set aside where a future rail terminus would "plug in" to the ramp and skywalk/escalator lobbies over to the main terminal. Cities that are more used to rapidly changing urban needs have always constructed things in this fashion (i.e. - the use is not here now, but since it will be needed in the future, we will leave a space for it to plug in later).

We sort of do this now downtown by way of using surface parking lots until a better use for the real estate is identified. Good input people. More - MORE - M O R E !!!!!!! I need to be able to show my GT2 peers that my UP-GR compatriots are visionaries and true integrative thinkers. Roll on wit' ya' bad selves!!

-Metrogrkid

[GRDadof3]

THINK "LEGO SET". The ramp can be designed - if it is deemed as important - with a module or footprint set aside where a future rail terminus would "plug in" to the ramp and skywalk/escalator lobbies over to the main terminal. Cities that are more used to rapidly changing urban needs have always constructed things in this fashion (i.e. - the use is not here now, but since it will be needed in the future, we will leave a space for it to plug in later).

We sort of do this now downtown by way of using surface parking lots until a better use for the real estate is identified. Good input people. More - MORE - M O R E !!!!!!! I need to be able to show my GT2 peers that my UP-GR compatriots are visionaries and true integrative thinkers. Roll on wit' ya' bad selves!!

-Metrogrkid

I know, but obviously a receiving end of a light rail link is much different than a BRT link. BRT's have to turn around, so they would have to leave a "dead space" ROW around the entire ramp loop (the current loop around the parking area). Whereas with a light rail "street car", they only need to leave a dead space end-point, because most streetcars/LRT can then go in reverse. Maybe the GT2 is further along then I'm thinking.

I love the idea of planning for the future though.

Here's another:

[GRCentro]

I'd rather the transit line connect to the ticket/check in area if that would be possible. We want people to just skip the car step don't we?

If we get the transit line, I'll probably never park at the airport again. I wonder if the airport guys have even considered that.

It's hard to see on the rendering posted here, but it looks like there will be a skywalk connecting the ramp and the airport. A line could probably be placed just a couple minute's walk from the ticket counter.

[torgo]

The ramp can be designed - if it is deemed as important - with a module or footprint set aside where a future rail terminus would "plug in" to the ramp and skywalk/escalator lobbies over to the main terminal.

Now THERE'S an interesting thought: planning! I would love to see that heading out to the airport...that would be sweet.

[Rizzo]

I'd take a ride on "The Rapid Rail" just to goto the airport! Take a stroll down to the viewing area and watch the planes land and take off!

[twoshort]

I'd take a ride on "The Rapid Rail" just to goto the airport! Take a stroll down to the viewing area and watch the planes land and take off!

do airports still have 'viewing areas?'

[Rizzo]

Yah GRR has one, its one hellofa rush watching 37s, sand pipers, and learjets take off. Grab some BK, eat, watch planes. cool.

[metrogrkid]

I know, but obviously a receiving end of a light rail link is much different than a BRT link. BRT's have to turn around, so they would have to leave a "dead space" ROW around the entire ramp loop (the current loop around the parking area). Whereas with a light rail "street car", they only need to leave a dead space end-point, because most streetcars/LRT can then go in reverse. Maybe the GT2 is further along then I'm thinking.

Dad:

You're correct, WE ARE FURTHER ALONG. The SE Corridor that will terminate at Ford will be the corridor that utilizes the trolley system (" . . . . Greeeen Acres is the place to be . . . . " rrrrrrrrr) that will be designed to be able to graduate up to light-rail (with my fervent wish being for it to go the final step to heavy-rail like MARTA in Atlanta, the DC Metrorail or Skytrain in Vancouver). The South Corridor that will go down Division and jog over to Buchanan will be the corridor for the Bus Rapid Transit/BRT system (likewise being designed to upgrade eventually to light-rail).

The South Corridor I'm recommending to terminate at a mixed-use transit hub that would be built in the middle of the new US-131/Paul Henry X-Way interchange (complete with a ramp for several thousand cars to park, hotels, shopping, a major food court, traveler-related services such as Western Union, American Express, US Postal Service, UPS, etc. <, similar to the Oasis X-way platforms on Chicago's tollways>, and with access to the BRT into downtown). I'll be bringing this one up at our next meeting coming up.

-Metrogrkid

[GaryP]

This might seem obvious, but I'd just like to point out that if we had a trolley that went both directions on its track, we could have only 1 trolley on the entire system. There would have to be some type of Y piece of track that allowed the trolleys to move in both directions into and out of the garage on the same track for only a short distance.

Metrokid, what are the capacity and velocity differences between the three types of systems? And when does the plan call for the upgrade to LRT?

[BigPlayJ]

This from the Grand Rapids Business Journal:

"Koslosky said the size of the parking ramp is a little difficult to comprehend. As a means of comparison, he pointed out that the combined total space of all the city of Grand Rapids parking ramps downtown is roughly 3,700 spaces, or 1,100 fewer than the new ramp alone will have. In terms of square footage, the planned ramp will total 1.2 million square feet of space, compared to, say, DeVos Place, which boasts 1.1 million square feet."

That's a big ramp!

[MJLO]

As the ignorant one of the group, let me ask this question, how does that ramp stack up say compared to the Ramp at O'hare, or that blue monstrosity at Detroit Metro. I realize that Metro for instance literally handles sixteen times as much Passenger traffic as Ford. I'm excited about this ramp, it gives the airport room for more capacity, and on the asthetic side, it will make our airport look less like it has goats grazing on the runways.

[GRDadof3]

Detroit Metro's new one holds about 11,000 cars, so quite a bit bigger.