Smoke Free Cities in SC

[wellen]

Mandates always come with unintended consequences, and this one would have many. Tax incentives to restaurants to opt to go smoke free/ higher taxes on tobacco products may be a better option.

As janrey said, Portofino's went smokefree, and they probably will find many repeat customers because of this. I said this months ago, capitalism will win this battle. You can't regulate 'stupid'.

Which is more effective?

"Stay off the grass"

"Stay on the sidewalk"

[Pillsbury]

Ban it in restaurants, even restaurants with bars (Applebees, Chilis, etc.) Let smoking continue in traditional bars, no problem there.

I agree, let tobacco farmers grow more corn & soy, which I believe are primary ingredients in E85, Ethanol & Bio-diesel.

One bit of irony though....if the Statehouse is considering a smoking ban in restaurants, why in God's name didn't they also raise the tax on cigs? Again, keep the tax just under what's charged in NC & GA, so people will still cross the border to buy "cheaper" cigs, and add more money to state coffers for healthcare.

Are cigarettes cheaper in SC than they are NC? I'm a smoker and it's always like 3.50 or 3.75 down this way no matter which side of the Savannah River I'm on. I've always associated NC with having cheaper cigarettes cause last time I was there it was like 2.90 for a pack of cigarettes. I felt like I was a freshman in college.

I say South Carolina should ban smoking in all public places like they did over here in Georgia. Georgia did leave a loophole for bars to still allow smoking (that way people could still have a Marlboro with their favorite alcoholic beverage) although my local area went ahead and banned them in all public places. I think Aiken County, SC has already banned them as well so it can be done......

[whitehourseview]

Isn't it just as simple to tell them to leave their cigarettes at home? If it was an annoyance like a crying baby, that's one thing. If its something that is inherently unhealthy, why should that activity be protected in a public place?

I also think that smoking in a car with a child inside is grounds for child abuse, but that's a whole different subject.

North Caroina has a 2% tobacco tax, South Carolina a 5% tax, state taxes of course, not including federal taxes on tobacco products. Both are among the lowest in the nation, largely because of the large tobacco farming and manufacturing concerns in both states.

I agree, let tobacco farmers grow more corn & soy, which I believe are primary ingredients in E85, Ethanol & Bio-diesel.

Who should "let" farmer grow things? The market or the government? Isn't government subsidies a large part of the problem in agriculture?

Isn't it just as simple to tell them to leave their cigarettes at home?

Who should tell them? The private businesses or the government?

[erm1981]

I am totally for banning cigarettes. I wish that they didnt even exist. I find it sad that people are so addicted to them, and most of them will even tell you to never start smoking. I think if they could get rid of this bad habit called smoking then they would be better as a whole.

[FLAplaya]

hello SC....Well I think that it's a GREAT idea to ban smoking in public places, especially in restaurants. When Florida passed the smoking ban bill in 2000 people at first thought it was going to destroy some businesses and cost more money for eateries to develop outdoor smoking sections.

Six years later, it was one of the best moves that this state (FL) has done. People can go out eat and not worry about smelling like smoke.

However, becuase the smoking ban is really for restaurants, you can still smoke in most bars, nightclubs, lounges and wherever else that does not sell 60% of their sales in food.

I think if SC was to pass the ban it would be a good thing. There is no doom and gloom about NOT smoking in public. You still have your house.

[kayman]

It would be a positive thing. Smoking more harmful to those who don't smoke than those who do.

[silverseale]

My wife and I both used to smoke; however, neither of us can stand to be around smoke these days. It's especially horrible when you're trying to savor the aroma and flavor of good food. I'd be all for such a bill passing!

(Raising hand) Another ex-smoker here in favor of the ban.

I think smaller government is best in a lot of situations, but this is a case where I think government intervention is warranted. No one has the "right" to force others to breathe in a cloud of known carcinogens against their will.

Just my opinion, of course.

[motonenterprises]

I hate stinky smelly cigarettes. This ban doesn't bother me at all. Went to Red Robin last week and noticed it was smoke free. Didn't seem to hurt business at all.

[NYTransplant]

Who should tell them? The private businesses or the government?

There are smokers who are courteous about where they light up. There are others who really don't care. If they can't figure it out for themselves, then I have no problem with the government telling them to leave them at home.

Some people couldn't figure out that drinking and driving wasn't safe, so the government had to tell them to stop too. Some people just don't get it.

[Greenville]

I am all for the smoking ban. While people have the right to do as they please in their homes and cars, they do not have the right to contaminate the air of those around them. Like it or not, smoking and non-smoking sections within the same building is silly and results in polluting the air in the entire establishment.

If this passes, perhaps they can work on getting rid of the archaic law stating that people can't purchase alcohol on Sunday. At least the city is one of two or three (I think) progressive cities in the entire state to allow restaurants to serve alcohol on Sundays. But that is a topic for another thread...

[whitehourseview]

There are smokers who are courteous about where they light up. There are others who really don't care. If they can't figure it out for themselves, then I have no problem with the government telling them to leave them at home.

Some people couldn't figure out that drinking and driving wasn't safe, so the government had to tell them to stop too. Some people just don't get it.

Thing is, the roads are maintained and secured by the state. Restaurants are private buinsesses. Doesn't really seem like its the government's role to block smoking in private businesses.

If that's the road we want to go down, what's next? Alcohol prohibition in restaurants? That's a much bigger danger to public health. Regulation of food portions/fat content? That would don wonders for the health insurance burden, I'd think.

Again, I don't smoke cigarettes, never have, bad habit. But I don't go into restaurants where I'll be around a lot of smoke. I prefer voting with my business, not hiding behind the nanny state.

[interestedexpat]

I'd love to see the ban passed. I am sympathetic to the idea of allowing it in bars and private clubs although I find that a little off putting too. Here's why...

Smoking has no socially redemptive value. The results of smoking eventuate in unnecessary medical costs which in one way or another all of us (smokers and non-smokers) help pay for. So unfortunately what a person does. even in their own home, affects us all.

This is different from say a junk food ban because most foods in moderation can be part of a healthy lifestyle. Smoking doesn't have that redemptive aspect.

But like I said, let's start with allowing it only in bars and private clubs and see what happens. Perhaps the other thing that could be done (to offset the medical cost aspect without criminalizing smoking altogether) would be to raise the tax on cigs to an outrageous level. This might also deter the criminal trade that would likely arise if they were illegal.

[NYTransplant]

Thing is, the roads are maintained and secured by the state. Restaurants are private buinsesses. Doesn't really seem like its the government's role to block smoking in private businesses.

If that's the road we want to go down, what's next? Alcohol prohibition in restaurants? That's a much bigger danger to public health. Regulation of food portions/fat content? That would don wonders for the health insurance burden, I'd think.

Again, I don't smoke cigarettes, never have, bad habit. But I don't go into restaurants where I'll be around a lot of smoke. I prefer voting with my business, not hiding behind the nanny state.

What about those that have to work under those conditions? OSHA has a say about exposure levels to dangerous conditions. Should employers be able to skirt the OSHA laws to get more profit?

[wellen]

What about those that have to work under those conditions? OSHA has a say about exposure levels to dangerous conditions. Should employers be able to skirt the OSHA laws to get more profit?

This assumes that those workers have no choice in where they work.

Also, OSHA lists tobacco smoke contents as a carcinogen, but has come to the conclusion that the amount of tobacco smoke needed to surpass the permissable exposure limit would not be possible in the typical working environment. (see here) And please don't think this was because of the Bush administration's stance on tobacco, because OSHA held the same stance throughout the 90's.

[NYTransplant]

This assumes that those workers have no choice in where they work.

Also, OSHA lists tobacco smoke contents as a carcinogen, but has come to the conclusion that the amount of tobacco smoke needed to surpass the permissable exposure limit would not be possible in the typical working environment. (see here) And please don't think this was because of the Bush administration's stance on tobacco, because OSHA held the same stance throughout the 90's.

Yeah, I would have to assume that currently PEL's are not exceeded, otherwise nobody would be able to work at a bar. I'm just saying that those laws are there to protect workers, and employers can't decide whether or not to abide by them without paying penalties. That is regardless whether an employee has a choice in where they work.

[GamecockEngineer]

Columbia joins Sullivans Island as the 2nd SC City to ban smoking in public places. One more vote to iron out details is comming, but this is great news for Columbia.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/...ws/15789399.htm

[Spartan]

I moved this thread to the state level, and combined Columbia and Greenville's respective threads into this new one.

With Sullivan's Island already banning smoking in public places, Columbia moving forward with its ban, and Greenville strongly considering it, I think it might be interesting to discuss this statewide and track this issue as other cities joing this growing national trend.

[waccamatt]

This is awesome news; I might actually start going out to clubs again.

[Spartan]

Columbia's bar owners are going to lobby to have themselves exempt from this law.

article

[janrey]

Mandates always come with unintended consequences, and this one would have many. Tax incentives to restaurants to opt to go smoke free/ higher taxes on tobacco products may be a better option.

Originally I am from Massachusetts (but been here 15 years) and so far from what I hear from relatives there has been no downside to their banning smoking. I've heard this also in NYCity. In both cases, when it was being discussed business claimed that they'd lose money...not so. No money lost. Anyone who says SC would lose a substantial amount of tobacco tax money need only look at what this state actually charges for taxes on cigs to realize this is without merit.

Which is more effective?

"Stay off the grass"

"Stay on the sidewalk"

Aligators on the grass

[Walker Evans]

Columbus established a smoking ban two years ago, and as a non-smoker I really enjoy going out to bars & clubs and not coming home reeking of smoke.

With that said, I voted AGAINST the ban because this isn't about whether or not I like smoke... it's about whether or not business owners should be allowed to run their businesses as they see fit. I think a bar owner should have the choice of whether or not they can allow smoking (which last I checked was a legal activity) in their establishments. If people don't like smoking they can vote with their dollars and simply not patronize smoking establishments. If it's bad for employees they can simply work somewhere else. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head telling them that they have to go to smoky bars.

...

www.ColumbusUnderground.com

[janrey]

Columbus established a smoking ban two years ago, and as a non-smoker I really enjoy going out to bars & clubs and not coming home reeking of smoke.

With that said, I voted AGAINST the ban because this isn't about whether or not I like smoke... it's about whether or not business owners should be allowed to run their businesses as they see fit. I think a bar owner should have the choice of whether or not they can allow smoking (which last I checked was a legal activity) in their establishments. If people don't like smoking they can vote with their dollars and simply not patronize smoking establishments. If it's bad for employees they can simply work somewhere else. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head telling them that they have to go to smoky bars.

...

www.ColumbusUnderground.com

Unfortunately working somewhere else that has a no smoking policy isn't always an option. Yes, we as customers can vote with our dollars but unless a majority of establishment owners see fit to go no smoking, workers won't have much of a choice. I'm all in favor of letting private clubs (those to which you need to be a member to enter) continue to allow smoking but is a restaurant really private if they don't and can't deny entry by the public? Certainly they are privately owned but they must adhere to public policy.

[Gviller]

I smoke about a pack a week and only in bars and to be honest, I dont care if they ban it or not.

However If they dont have the nuts to pass a law making smoking and tobacco illegal then these little half measures just make me mad.

How you can tell a business owner to not allow something that is legal in his or her business I dont understand.

[Spartan]

Well, narcotics aren't legal. Brothels aren't legal. etc.

Its just an extension of that logic.

Boy every radio show i listened too this morning was pissed off about the possibility of this, however, i get the impression that most people are in favor of it.

[Gviller]

From a logic standpoint I understand banning smoke from any place that derives most of its revenue from food.

I dont understand why they intend on making bar owners comply with this law. Not only comply with it, but they turn them into the cops which is even a bigger problem.

From a freedom standpoint I dont see how the city or anyone else should be able to tell a business owner how to run his or her business as long as they are allowing people to use legal substances.

Many restaurants downtown will not be hurt by this, but most of the bars and bar owners will feel a big hit and some will not make it. Places like City Tavern, Sharky's, Conolly's and other such places will take this on the chin.

Many that support this ban will say fine, A town as high class as Greenville does not need places like this, we need more Rick Erwins and Soby's and other fine dining establishments.

I say remember the places that bring the younger people downtown and the places that brought Greenville to the dance. Places like Conolly's and the Corner Pocket who bring people other than families and the ageing half backs just up from florida.

Please dont get me wrong, me and my family love spending time downtown and I love strolling my two year old around and that is part of what makes Greenville great, but another thing that makes Greenville great is the diverse group of ages and cultures you find downtown.

You start taking away liberties and resticted freedoms and laying down the law and the first people to leave will be that younger group of interesting and creative people that make a place come alive.

I guess it depends on what group of people that you hang out with and I make it a point to spend time with several different groups of people and if I am just worried that if we start banning things that our downtown will loose some of those people and we will be worse off for it.