Smoke Free Cities in SC

[Spartan]

I find it amusing that we, as a society, are willing to go out of our way to complain about crying kids in restaurants and how nobody diciplines their kids anymore- but we are generally willing to accept a foul-smelling poisonous gas in the same places. What is it about SOUND that is so different from SMELL?

I for one am for an equal opportunity sensory regulation system.

[BrasilnSC]

I say, ban smoking in all restaurants and turn the smoking areas into kid free areas. Am I wrong for that?

[RestedTraveler]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to question the wisdom of the city's smoking ban. Our beautiful downtown is now being constantly littered with cigarette butts, in spite of these ugly things being spread throughout downtown:

Crews are out almost every morning cleaning out planters and flower boxes and sweeping butts off of the sidewalks and streets. You can't walk anywhere downtown now without encountering someone standing (exactly 10 paces from the front door of some shop or restraunt) smoking. Yes, you can breathe easy inside places such as Wild Wing and Sticky Fingers, but you can't breathe easy out on the steet and the sight of these butts and the recepticles designed to receive them is sickening.

Am I the only one that has changed their mind on this thing now that we've seen the cause and effect relationship resulting from it?

[g-man430]

Nope, i'm starting to question the smoking ban too. I've noticed since this smoking ban went into effect less and less people are going downtown on the weekends. Hopefully it's just the cold and not the smoking ban.

[whitehourseview]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to question the wisdom of the city's smoking ban. Our beautiful downtown is now being constantly littered with cigarette butts, in spite of these ugly things being spread throughout downtown:

Crews are out almost every morning cleaning out planters and flower boxes and sweeping butts off of the sidewalks and streets. You can't walk anywhere downtown now without encountering someone standing (exactly 10 paces from the front door of some shop or restraunt) smoking. Yes, you can breathe easy inside places such as Wild Wing and Sticky Fingers, but you can't breathe easy out on the steet and the sight of these butts and the recepticles designed to receive them is sickening.

Am I the only one that has changed their mind on this thing now that we've seen the cause and effect relationship resulting from it?

I've smoked three cigars in my life, that's it, but was against this from the beginning for all sorts of reasons. It went against market forces and private property choices, I figured that it would lead to lots more outdoor smoking rather than in just bars & restaurants, and most of all the amount of money the city is spending on this thing in the name of the nanny state amazes me: legal fees, marketing campaigns, manpower to enforce and clean up this thing, etc.

It's just not a good move, and I'm not at all sympathetic to smoking.

[GvilleSC]

I've smoked three cigars in my life, that's it, but was against this from the beginning for all sorts of reasons. It went against market forces and private property choices, I figured that it would lead to lots more outdoor smoking rather than in just bars & restaurants, and most of all the amount of money the city is spending on this thing in the name of the nanny state amazes me: legal fees, marketing campaigns, manpower to enforce and clean up this thing, etc.

It's just not a good move, and I'm not at all sympathetic to smoking.

As a city resident, I'll take my health and let my taxes go towards paying that stuff. People in Greenville love their downtown. They can't live without it. They'll be back with or without smoking. It needs time to settle. Plus, with more national retailer coming downtown, they won't stay away, IMO.

[Greenville]

As a city resident, I'll take my health and let my taxes go towards paying that stuff. People in Greenville love their downtown. They can't live without it. They'll be back with or without smoking. It needs time to settle. Plus, with more national retailer coming downtown, they won't stay away, IMO.

I agree. I still support the ban 100%. Downtown Greenville is still the place to be, and over time many of the angry smokers who "vowed" to take their business elsewhere well return downtown. Many of the non-smokers who didn't venture into certain establishments downtown will get curious and see what they are about. It will be fine in a few months.

Besides, if that many people were going downtown just because they could smoke in a bar or restaurant, then our problem is MUCH bigger than we originally thought.

[g-man430]

I agree. I still support the ban 100%. Downtown Greenville is still the place to be, and over time many of the angry smokers who "vowed" to take their business elsewhere well return downtown. Many of the non-smokers who didn't venture into certain establishments downtown will get curious and see what they are about. It will be fine in a few months.

Besides, if that many people were going downtown just because they could smoke in a bar or restaurant, then our problem is MUCH bigger than we originally thought.

There is no proof that everything will be fine in a few months. Also, think about how much money the city is spending on this marketing campaign that could of gone to other things instead.

[GvilleSC]

There is no proof that everything will be fine in a few months. Also, think about how much money the city is spending on this marketing campaign that could of gone to other things instead.

No there is no proof that everything will be fine, but how else are we to know that this is more than mere coincidence? We can't know until we play the waiting game. The money could have been spent in other ways, yes, but it alone wasn't going to build the Riverplace garage any faster or get much else done. Not to mention that the BEST eating options are in the city, whether it's downtown, Augusta Street, Haywood Road, at the Point, or at Greenridge. These businesses won't hurt that bad. You can only go so long before you're longing for that Flat Rock, City Range, Mimi's, Red Robin, Soby's, Sticky Fingers, etc food.

One possibility, IF it does hurt resturant business downtown, then there's more room for retail on that "same stretch" that we love.

[RestedTraveler]

I'm not so concerned with business at restaurants and other stores downtown as much as I am with the fact that you can't walk down the sidewalk now without passing individual smokers or groups of smokers standing outside blowing smoke in your face. You can't walk ten feet along the sidewalks on Main Street in the CBD without seeing a cigarette butt laying somewhere, in spite of these eyesore "butt cans" that are everywhere throughout downtown.

Granted, you can walk right into Wild Wing and Sticky Fingers and places of the like without having to wait out a 10-15 minute (or longer) wait as was the case in the past. Wild Wing now has ample seating for everybody at nearly all times it seems.

Also, how does this ordinance impact Halfway to Habana's plans for their cigar and martini bar? Anyone know?

[Greenville]

I'm not so concerned with business at restaurants and other stores downtown as much as I am with the fact that you can't walk down the sidewalk now without passing individual smokers or groups of smokers standing outside blowing smoke in your face. You can't walk ten feet along the sidewalks on Main Street in the CBD without seeing a cigarette butt laying somewhere, in spite of these eyesore "butt cans" that are everywhere throughout downtown.

Granted, you can walk right into Wild Wing and Sticky Fingers and places of the like without having to wait out a 10-15 minute (or longer) wait as was the case in the past. Wild Wing now has ample seating for everybody at nearly all times it seems.

Also, how does this ordinance impact Halfway to Habana's plans for their cigar and martini bar? Anyone know?

I am confident that cigar bars like Halfway to Habana are still allowed to have smoking inside the building. It was written into the ordinance specifically.

[wellen]

Mandates always come with unintended consequences, and this one would have many.

Butts on the public space is certainly the most noticeable consequence. Also, when you regularaly see less people in any restaurant than you would normally see there a year ago, that generally means that less people are coming downtown. That means that national retailers are less likely to take a risk. So the argument that when restaurants move out, it will make room for retail is a non-starter.

**Edit: I quoted myself in order to get 'I told you so' points.

[Gviller]

I was talking to my friend who owns a bar downtown this week and he says the ban has made a big dent in his college crowed business. The Furman kids have just gone elsewhere.

He said it was a hit but not a crushing blow, however he knows several of the other bar owners are feeling it pretty bad and not just bar owners but restaurant owners as well.

Wild Wings is really the only bullet proof food place downtown and the manager said the only hit he has taken is the Sunday football crowed has thinned out a good bit.

The cafe by the bridge is a place that you would think would not feel this at all however I heard that for the months of Jan-March they had 27 parties planned.

They now have 7. Twenty parites cancelled the event and all of them because the smoking ban.

I was never for the ban in that I think it unconstitutional and unfair to those businesses in the city. I might have felt different if it was a county wide ban, but whatever my views I think the immediate effect on downtown has been even more drastic than I could have imagined. I dont think anyone will argue that there is much less foot traffic downtown and it all starts with foottraffic.

Perhaps it will look different when it warms up but I think Greenville has taken a step backwards in the last couple of months.

[digital_sandlapper]

I think all this is due to winter time, folks. Only 18% of people smoke, and so they don't make up more than 18% of restaurant and bar patrons, do they? In fact, I think restaurants and bars will get MORE business from non-smokers like myself who AVOIDED them because of too much smoke. Now that they are smoke-free, these stay-at-home patrons will be coming out again and discovering how nice it is to be where they can breathe again. If I lived in G'ville, I'd be much more inclined to patronize these establishments now than ever because of this.

The other week, I went out on a Saturday night with friends. It took me 3-4 days to get over my second-hand smoke induced cough. Smokers are public health menance Number One, and I find it hard to have ANY sympathy for them.

I also find it pathetic that these smokers are polluting the street with their butts and are loitering like fiends outside with their damn cigarettes. Let's ban smoking from all of the CBD as well! I know, it's a dream, but why not? Perhaps this gauntlet of fumes is what is keeping non-smokers from entering these businesses?

A huge tax increase on cigarette packs in this state is long overdue, of course, but it will happen eventually I am praying.

[knightrider162]

Well Charleston

[Spartan]

I think all this is due to winter time, folks. Only 18% of people smoke, and so they don't make up more than 18% of restaurant and bar patrons, do they? In fact, I think restaurants and bars will get MORE business from non-smokers like myself who AVOIDED them because of too much smoke. Now that they are smoke-free, these stay-at-home patrons will be coming out again and discovering how nice it is to be where they can breathe again. If I lived in G'ville, I'd be much more inclined to patronize these establishments now than ever because of this.

The other week, I went out on a Saturday night with friends. It took me 3-4 days to get over my second-hand smoke induced cough. Smokers are public health menance Number One, and I find it hard to have ANY sympathy for them.

I also find it pathetic that these smokers are polluting the street with their butts and are loitering like fiends outside with their damn cigarettes. Let's ban smoking from all of the CBD as well! I know, it's a dream, but why not? Perhaps this gauntlet of fumes is what is keeping non-smokers from entering these businesses?

A huge tax increase on cigarette packs in this state is long overdue, of course, but it will happen eventually I am praying.

Exactly!

[wellen]

I truly think that it is in my free right not to be subjected to

[Gviller]

Good point about the 18% of the population Wellen. That number is wrong as it stands alone because it does not take into account the hundreds of thousands of closet smokers who will never say or admitt that they smoke the occaisonal social cig.

and I would guess that the number of people who attend bars more than four times a month who smoke is going to be in 60% catagory. That would be an interesting statistic to see.

I agree, smoking is not good for the public. However, it is legal and if everyone is so upsett about it then take it in front of congress and make it Illegal, Put it on the agenda.

[knightrider162]

Good point about the 18% of the population Wellen. That number is wrong as it stands alone because it does not take into account the hundreds of thousands of closet smokers who will never say or admitt that they smoke the occaisonal social cig.

and I would guess that the number of people who attend bars more than four times a month who smoke is going to be in 60% catagory. That would be an interesting statistic to see.

I agree, smoking is not good for the public. However, it is legal and if everyone is so upsett about it then take it in front of congress and make it Illegal, Put it on the agenda.

Economic problems come into play if you make smoking illegal so the best option is to restrict it to private homes and businesses that are not in the public domain (ie clubs that can deny entrance).. thats just my personal opinion though

A huge tax increase on cigarette packs in this state is long overdue, of course, but it will happen eventually I am praying.

And that might be the thing to negate the burden that smokers put on our health system.

[wellen]

Economic problems come into play if you make smoking illegal so the best option is to restrict it to private homes and businesses that are not in the public domain (ie clubs that can deny entrance).. thats just my personal opinion though

Again, I agree. That is a solution that would allow choice for all. However, these laws are being written to include private clubs. The only place they exclude is a tobacco shop, as long as that tobacco shop does not serve food or alcohol.

People are not going to stop smoking. They are also not going to stop socializing. They will just move their money to where they can do both. Which isn't that far down the road.

[GvilleSC]

This is where the county needs to step up to the plate as well as the other municipalities and ban smoking as well. Too bad Hell will have to freeze over first.

[g-man430]

^^^You have a better chance of the world exploding than that happening.

[GvilleSC]

I know several people who went downtown last night to several of the bars. They said that it was PACKED in The Corner Pocket and at Dixie's. Maybe the smoking ban isn't keeping that many away...?

[trippdaddy]

I know several people who went downtown last night to several of the bars. They said that it was PACKED in The Corner Pocket and at Dixie's. Maybe the smoking ban isn't keeping that many away...?

Dixie's has an outside patio area where people can smoke while still having his/her drink available. Not sure if this gets around the law or not but I believe that draws a lot of people there. City Tavern has the same scenario.

[gregtrob]

As we all know it has passed. They tried to enforce it - sadly a judge has overturned it http://www.wyff4.com/news/11193428/detail....gs&psp=news Wasn't sure whether this warranted a new thread or what the appropriate old thread was.