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smeagolsfree

2nd Huge Retail Ctr. For Mt. Juliet

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In the Tennessean this morning. Another Huge retail center to grace Mt. Juliet. I just wonder how many more centers are on the drawing board for Middle TN. Its seems as if the attitude is, if we build it then they will come. Can we continue to sustain this much growth in M TN. I don't know but I'll bet you all have an opinion.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS01/601290364

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Off the top of my head..

Providence - Mt. Juliet

Paddocks Place (this one) Mt. Juliet

Sumner Point - Hendersonville

The Streets of Inidian Lake - Hendersonville

Glenbrook - Hendersonville (1/2 built)

Kennesaw Farms - Gallatin

HG Hills Lifestyle center - Green Hills

Murfreesboro Gateway

Lifestyle Center - North Nashville/Dickerson Rd.

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It's getting stupid really. The redundancy of stores in this market is unmatched. How many TJ Max's and Best Buys can one market absorb???

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It's getting stupid really. The redundancy of stores in this market is unmatched. How many TJ Max's and Best Buys can one market absorb???

really... :silly:

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It never seems to even slow down, does it?

As the article said... nearly 4 million sf in retail u/c or planned in the 8-county area. This doesn't even include Maury (there's gotta be a couple of 100K or a 200K sf shopping center there, right?). Does anybody know about Maury? Nor does it include Montgomery... nor does it include anything around Green Hills Mall. There have been rumors for a couple of years that the latest Green Hills Mall expansion is the tip of the iceburg. I read a southeastern retail report about 6 months ago, (yikes... I can't remember the owner of the mall), but they said that a major announcement for two new anchors would be coming as soon as the dust settles on the latest mall expansion. They didn't say who it would be (my own feeling based on thing I've heard is that it will be SFA and NM). They also have plans to put a hotel directly on top of the mall.

Additionally, Crate and Barrel has been reported to be snooping around the mall at GH. So that mall would need to expand another 300K sf at least to accommodate just the ones rumored.

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that the area will have nearly 5 million sf u/c in a year or so.

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This retail is getting disgusting. How many Walmarts do we have now? Are there not close to 50 Walgreens stores in Nashville now? They are building retail everywhere except downtown where we need it to satisfy the hotel trade.

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I love how people get upset with chain retailers. If people didn't shop those stores they would no longer be expanding. Don't hate the company giving the people what they want. If you have a problem with chain retailers don't look at them look at the people that shop them. Those retailers are just a product of the demand for cheap goods.

Remember, demand creates supply.

Providence - Mt. Juliet

Paddocks Place (this one) Mt. Juliet - "Will be done in phases, Lowes and Walmart have jumped on board"

Sumner Point - Hendersonville - "Doesn't look like it is going to happen"

The Streets of Inidian Lake - Hendersonville "Taking the sails out of Sumner Pointe - has the momentum right now"

Glenbrook - Hendersonville (1/2 built) - "Trying to do a phase II, current tenants neg are AC Moore, Indian Lake will take some of the demand off of Glenbrook"

Kennesaw Farms - Gallatin - "Stopped building, ran into storm water issues from my understanding"

HG Hills Lifestyle center - Green Hills - "July 2007 opening, will be the nicest thing Nashville has"

Murfreesboro Gateway - "Cousins is getting everything together"

Lifestyle Center - North Nashville/Dickerson Rd - "Walmart Anchored Center that will be done in a couple phases, Ross Dress for Less is interested, no Lifestyle center portion will exist."

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This retail is getting disgusting. How many Walmarts do we have now? Are there not close to 50 Walgreens stores in Nashville now? They are building retail everywhere except downtown where we need it to satisfy the hotel trade.

Not to worry. If the retail chains overbuild, market forces will take effect and these companies will lose money, close some of their stores and cease building new ones. If only this would happen to Wal-Mart. :whistling:

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what about the shopping center that was supposed to be happening right off of 65 and Briley, near Skyline Medical Center. I thought it was supposed to be a mall. Is that one of the projects listed above by wboarder44 ?

I always thought that the Gulch or downtown would be a great place for Crate & Barrel, but as long as we get one I don't really care where it is. Then we can work on getting an IKEA.

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what about the shopping center that was supposed to be happening right off of 65 and Briley, near Skyline Medical Center. I thought it was supposed to be a mall. Is that one of the projects listed above by wboarder44 ?

I always thought that the Gulch or downtown would be a great place for Crate & Barrel, but as long as we get one I don't really care where it is. Then we can work on getting an IKEA.

It's called Skyline Commons. As of now like I said above, just a Walmart SC and Ross has expressed interest. Zimas Development out of PA is doing that project. No mall will be developed on that property. Developers will be going after Lowes for a relo. Home Depot just landed at Gallatin Road and Briley so they aren't a canidate.

IKEA in my opinion will land in Cool Springs or maybe the Gulch. We are still a ways away from getting an IKEA as there is no word in the real estate industry and it would take two years to pull something like that off. They have been known to do centrally located "thinking outside of the box" locations. See Atlanta steel mill redevelopment.

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I love how people get upset with chain retailers. If people didn't shop those stores they would no longer be expanding. Don't hate the company giving the people what they want. If you have a problem with chain retailers don't look at them look at the people that shop them. Those retailers are just a product of the demand for cheap goods.

People shop there because they have zero other options. Why? Because anytime there is any retail demand whatsoever these same couple of stores jump in there and quickly suck it dry and destroy all the retail demand for miles and miles around. Not only does that prevent any mom n pop or organic home grown businesses for popping up now or anytime within the next decade or so...it creates extremely boring, ugly, and monotanous "communities" (if you can even call suburbs that anymore), and also does alot to promote sprawl not only in the way these behemoths are typically built, but when they suck up all the retail demand in a gigantic radius then everyone in that radius must not only drive, but drive far to get what they need. It's a disgusting cycle that seems to have no end...and it's sad because people seem to have no concern about it because they like some of the products.

Look, i'm not against the concept of chain stores, or against a company trying to achieve success, or even against the occasional shopping mall. I'm not advocating we go back to the days where everything was expensive, there was no cohesion in the retail world, and you had to go to a different store for literally everything. I just think there should be some limitations put into place to at least partially control the way some of these companies do business before all of our beautiful towns across America are nothing more than traffic clogged paved-over mega-mart clones of one another...where the only way to get around is by car, and the only way to distinguish one town from another is based upon what building material the Wal-Mart is made out of. This has already largely happened i'm afraid. People...especially suburbanites...are always complaining about so-called "city problems" and always claim how they desire the "small town" life and wonder where it went...THIS is where it went. Charming small towns and unique city neighborhoods are being replaced with the Super Wal-Marts and Home Depots they shop at all the time at alarming rates.

People as a whole are going to have to make a decision. Do you want culture, charm, character, heritage and a community you can be proud of? Or do you want the ability to be able to purchase 85 count packs of toilet paper for slightly cheaper than you could otherwise?

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BNA. What a great post! I agree with you and you made me laugh, too. All stores in every retail category are trending bigger and bigger year after year. Parking lots are getting bigger and bigger. The sheer size of these stores and going to contribute to everthing getting spread even further and further out. To me, it's a totally disgusting trend.

But, there is a way out of this predicament. Move into the city where these megastores can't find the land to build. Oh yes! The environment in the city will be far more interesting, exciting, varied, and entertaining!!

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BNA. What a great post! I agree with you and you made me laugh, too. All stores in every retail category are trending bigger and bigger year after year. Parking lots are getting bigger and bigger. The sheer size of these stores and going to contribute to everthing getting spread even further and further out. To me, it's a totally disgusting trend.

But, there is a way out of this predicament. Move into the city where these megastores can't find the land to build. Oh yes! The environment in the city will be far more interesting, exciting, varied, and entertaining!!

Haha, Thanks! :) I agree, it is a disgusting trend...but I think you're right...if people are able to forget about saving a few cents here and there with every purchase, and move back to real communities then the retail market will definitely follow the people and morph to fit that environment. Hopefully this will happen soon because it's really getting out of control. I mean, seriously, how sad is it that practically the only way someone anymore could tell the difference between a town in Florida, Maine, and Arizona of the same size apart is by the license plates on the cars and the weather outside? lol

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"People shop there because they have zero other options. Why? Because anytime there is any retail demand whatsoever these same couple of stores jump in there and quickly suck it dry and destroy all the retail demand for miles and miles around."

You are completly wrong. You think that mom and pop store doesn't go into an area because large retailers jump in there and quickly suck it dry? You think that a 2,000 sf electronic store won't already be open in a market before Circuit City is? Those large chain stores need a lot more people to shop them and do much more volume than a mom and pop. As a result, normally the mom and pop stores exist in a market first, the market grows and then the chain retailers follow. Once again don't hate the chain retailers for "sucking up all the demand". They are just giving the people what they want. Whether you like it or not, America is extremely price sensative on the goods they buy and until that changes retail will continue down a similiar path.

Once again supply doesn't create demand. People want cheap goods, chain retailers give them what they want. If people don't like chain retailers, drive out of your way to shop the mom and pop store. Rally your friends and family to boycott the chain retailers or make them change their format.

"People as a whole are going to have to make a decision. Do you want culture, charm, character, heritage and a community you can be proud of? Or do you want the ability to be able to purchase 85 count packs of toilet paper for slightly cheaper than you could otherwise?

America has made it's choice, and they want the cheap goods.

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"People shop there because they have zero other options. Why? Because anytime there is any retail demand whatsoever these same couple of stores jump in there and quickly suck it dry and destroy all the retail demand for miles and miles around."

You are completly wrong. You think that mom and pop store doesn't go into an area because large retailers jump in there and quickly suck it dry? You think that a 2,000 sf electronic store won't already be open in a market before Circuit City is? Those large chain stores need a lot more people to shop them and do much more volume than a mom and pop. As a result, normally the mom and pop stores exist in a market first, the market grows and then the chain retailers follow.

How am I completely wrong? You basically just helped to prove my point! And you tell me whether or not mom n pop stores can survive when the bix boxes move in. Go to any small town in America and ask them what the new Wal-Mart Supercenter has done to their town.

Once again don't hate the chain retailers for "sucking up all the demand". They are just giving the people what they want. Whether you like it or not, America is extremely price sensative on the goods they buy and until that changes retail will continue down a similiar path.
I don't think people do want nothing BUT massive warehouse chain stores to choose from...but thats all they get, so what are they going to do? Just because they shop at a particular place doesn't mean they prefer it over an option they don't have. Again, i'm not advocating we only allow shops that are under 10,000 square feet and independent to open. I have no problem with chain stores. I simply think that restrictions should be put into place in some areas as far as how big stores can be and/or how many branches of one company can be in a certain area and things like that to kind of level out the playing field at least a little bit.

Once again supply doesn't create demand. People want cheap goods, chain retailers give them what they want. If people don't like chain retailers, drive out of your way to shop the mom and pop store. Rally your friends and family to boycott the chain retailers or make them change their format.

I think supply does create demand. Has anyone really been "demanding" any of these developments, and even if they are, does it necessarily mean that there aren't other options they would prefer if they were aware that they could have them? Furthermore, of course if given a choice between a cheaper product and a more expensive product of the same quality, most are going to choose the cheaper product. But would they choose cheaper products sold by the giant mega-corporation if they were all fully and completely aware of the effects those mega-corporations have on the lifestyle and the areas and things about their communities that they claim to love? I'm guessing that most wouldn't.

In my opinion you're greatly underestimating the psychological effect in all of this. What makes you think that people don't push for something different simply because they have been conditioned to think that they can't have that? I mean honestly, if given a choice between having a super wal-mart with 200 acres of surface parking and a charming and plesant tree-lined street lined with store fronts in their neighborhood do you honestly think anyone is going to choose the Wal-Mart? I highly doubt it! But people don'tsay anything, because nothing is built that way anymore! 'It'd be nice, but thats not the way things are supposed to be'. You've seen the way the so-called 'small town life' is idealized nowadays and portrayed as some sort of Utopia. You can't deny that. I'm talking about urban planning as much as i'm talking economics. Sure people will likely choose the cheaper-prices at Wal-Mart over the stuff at bob's electronics in the mini-mall right beside it...but what if there was actually a difference between the two aside from size?

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"I think supply does create demand."

Wow, I can't even argue a response like that. That is basic economic theory. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

"Has anyone really been "demanding" any of these developments"

Yes. If they weren't, the chain retailers would no longer be profitable, thus no longer expand.

"But would they choose cheaper products sold by the giant mega-corporation if they were all fully and completely aware of the effects those mega-corporations have on the lifestyle and the areas and things about their communities that they claim to love? I'm guessing that most wouldn't."

The problem with this idea, is that Americans want the cheaper goods and think one single person like themselves cannot make a difference in "taking down the evil giant" known as chain stores. As a result they will do what is selfish and in their own single best interest not "what is best for the overall community".

" I mean honestly, if given a choice between having a super wal-mart with 200 acres of surface parking and a charming and plesant tree-lined street lined with store fronts in their neighborhood do you honestly think anyone is going to choose the Wal-Mart? I highly doubt it!"

Do you think that Walmart has existed forever? There was a time that there was a single Walmart in Bentonville Arkansas. Before this time shopping was done on a plesant tree-lined street lined with store fronts. People no longer wanted to shop at these venues and chose to start shopping at Walmart because the majority of America is price sensative and wants the cheapest price for the good.

"Sure people will likely choose the cheaper-prices at Wal-Mart over the stuff at bob's electronics in the mini-mall right beside it...but what if there was actually a difference between the two aside from size?"

There will always be a difference. Price, no mom and pop can compete in price with somebody that does sooooo much more volume in sales. As a result, they can have a lot lower margins than others.

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I think it would be nice to get rid of Walmart as much as the next guy (or at least limit them)... but I don't see it happening. Partly because of the price argument that seems to be well discussed already. But the other side is just that the world is a different place now than it was when mom n pop stores ruled it. People don't have time anymore (or at least won't make the time) to go to 10 different stores to get what they need. This is how America is nowadays... shopping at chain retailers where you can buy all your goods in one trip is the norm. As much as I'd love for everybody to ditch Walmart and go back to shopping small unique stores, I just don't see it happening.

I'm sure living in a more urban, downtown environment will be different... but I still don't see the people that do so taking the time to shop at 10 different places. Although, i've always lived in a suburb environment, so I guess I could be biased. I did have a friend who lived in a DT area once though... and he would, about once a week, take his car and drive to just outside DT... shop at Walmart & Kroger... and bring all his stuff back in one trip. Maybe the majority would be different though, who knows.

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The north side of town has zero of these options. Clarksville or Pleasant view could easily sustain another one of these major shopping centers.

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