GTA to create 5 year plan

[upstate29650]

Story

WYFF is reporting that daily ridership on GTA is only 2500? That's it?

Umm....got news for you Pedro. That's not enough to continue to operate a viable bus operation. This plan smacks of a tax grab from neighboring communities. This Greer resident, if given a chance to vote on joining the GTA, will vote a resounding no!

If only 2500 people rise GTA, then do away with it, in it's current incarantion. Instead, make it an express service into downtown. If that doesn't work...kill it off.

[GSP Tiger]

Increasing expenses, decreasing profit, decreasing ridership and mismanagement years ago remains evident today.

GTA should reduce its routes to core areas with strong ridership, make fewer stops and set a price to make a profir, pay expenses and not rely on taxpayer funding.

[MAJIKMAN]

Well I would have to agree with you both. How can make money when your service is not reliable. Now don't get me wrong I do ride from time to time. But when you have to wait on something for an hour, you kind of wonder what else could I be doing. And even the last time I rode I had to wait an hour and a half, Because of bus on another route. That's the reason I had not riden a bus sense . Its just not practical. But then I hear on the news last nite that they are trying to shorten the time. I 'm thinkin' every 15 minutes or something like that. Then I heard 30. I just said [email protected]#$%^&. Excuse me y'all. I grew up part of my life in Baltimore and even in Charlotte, where they are getting better. And I think this system is a load of well you know. Now tell me is SC the only state that does not contribute into its local transit system. I know many do.

[JCT]

GTA should reduce its routes to core areas with strong ridership, make fewer stops and set a price to make a profir, pay expenses and not rely on taxpayer funding.

Not rely on taxpayer funding at all? If the system needs an overall (and it probably does), that is one thing, but name a major non-subsidized public transit system anywhere. Public transit (and not just bus service) will be vital to this area in order to compete with large metro areas going forward. I think it would be short sighted to give up on it now.

By the way, no transportation system is as heavily subsidized as our infrastructure for private automobiles. The minimal gas taxes that we pay do not even begin to cover the costs of roads and parking spaces for the growing number of personal automobiles. Like you guys, I very much care how my property and income taxes are spent. I just want to know that I am subsidizing a system that makes sense for the future of this region.

[upstate29650]

Public transit (and not just bus service) will be vital to this area in order to compete with large metro areas going forward.

Well, no one is using it now, hardly...yet, we're the economic powerhouse of SC.

[Spartan]

Now tell me is SC the only state that does not contribute into its local transit system. I know many do.

SC does pay for transit. You know that our largest cities are all working on rail transit plans right? Greenville is one of the more forward thinking areas in out state and theirs is the furthest along (at least as far as I can tell). The problem is that with the exception of Charleston and maybe Columbia, our cities are not large and dense enough to support a substantial transit network. You are used to Baltimore and Charlotte- but none of our cities are that big or dense. Charlotte's ridership tops 16,000- and both of those cites have or are constructing a light rail system. Hardly a fair comparison I'd say. Transit by its very nature does not make a proffit. The only system in the world that does make a proffit is in Hong Kong, where densities are so rediculously high that a car would be a laughabble option to get around. It has to be subsidized by taxpayers in some way in order for it to be effective.

Here in the Upstate you simply cannot funciton on a daily basis without a car- well, not efficiently. The GTA will probably take you to most palces that you need to go, even SPARTA and the ECT and CATbus will do that- but they are all horribly inconvenient. This is a major caveat of our auto-oriented society (meaning sprawl). That is what GTA is trying to fix. If they can make their system more reliable and more efficient, it is not unreasonable to think that their ridership will increase. Even the poor, who tend to ride it the most, are scattered around and cannot get to where they need to go very easily. Downtown Greenville is gradually become a place where a car is not necessary, but you would still need one around so that you could get elsewhere around the city.

GTA has been bragging about their plans to expand their service to Easley, Simpsonville, and Greer, so maybe that will up the ridership some as well? I doubt it will make a significant impact. But if our area can reduce sprawl and if gas prices continue to climb, we might see that ridership increase. Its also not unreasonable to think that by the time Greenville is at the size Charlotte is today that we will see some sort of larger regional transit network tying in with Spartanburg and maybe Anderson as well.

[g-man430]

^^Great comment, Spartan. I totally agree with you.

[upstate29650]

Their busses can roll over here to Greer all day long, as long as Greer taxpayers aren't asked (or expected) to have their taxes increased!

[GvilleSC]

I'm sure most colleges are this way, I have no idea, but I see Clemson University being the ideal city becuase of a couple of aspects...

*CAT buses ride around during peak hours (morning and afternoon) with full loads. I always enjoy reading the front when it says: "wait for next bus" or "full load". The CAT bus is free.

*Foot traffic becomes dense between classes on such heavily travelled paths such as the library bridge.

I know that college is different, but I always think of how great it would be if Greenville's buses rode around full and with more people standing at the stops. Also if downtown could get the foot traffic on more streets downtown. Let the sidewalks have a rush hour of their own when people come to/leave from work, going to their cars in a nearby garage, people walking to their downtown residence... Greenville is definitely headed toward the foot traffic, but the buses are much farther off.

[Spartan]

Their busses can roll over here to Greer all day long, as long as Greer taxpayers aren't asked (or expected) to have their taxes increased!

They do. The Geerians (?) that live on the Greenville side pay it in their county taxes.

I'm sure most colleges are this way, I have no idea, but I see Clemson University being the ideal city becuase of a couple of aspects...

*CAT buses ride around during peak hours (morning and afternoon) with full loads. I always enjoy reading the front when it says: "wait for next bus" or "full load". The CAT bus is free.

*Foot traffic becomes dense between classes on such heavily travelled paths such as the library bridge.

I know that college is different, but I always think of how great it would be if Greenville's buses rode around full and with more people standing at the stops. Also if downtown could get the foot traffic on more streets downtown. Let the sidewalks have a rush hour of their own when people come to/leave from work, going to their cars in a nearby garage, people walking to their downtown residence... Greenville is definitely headed toward the foot traffic, but the buses are much farther off.

I won't argue that, but to be fair I have never seen any bus here full unless it is going from center campus to the commuter lots that are serviced by the CATbus. Not near as many people ride it around town.

USC is no different though, except they use a university sponsored shuttle system rather than the CMTA to get from center campus to the commuter lots. I think that most colleges would be similar.

If Greenville didn't allow parking downtown but people sitll had to go there, they could pull of the same thing.

It is nice to see people walking around on College Ave. They need to expand that feel further down that street.

[upstate29650]

They do. The Geerians (?) that live on the Greenville side pay it in their county taxes.

Hold up there a second. If you're refering to those who live inside the Greer city limits, on the Greenville Co. side, then you may want to recheck that. I just pulled my property tax notice, and it makes no mention of any kind of transit tax. Now if you live in unincorporated G'ville Co & have a Greer mailing address (bleeding into Taylors), then you probably do pay it.

[Spartan]

Hmm... Perhaps I was mistaken. I don't think that funding comes from its own tax. I do know that funding comes from the county level as well as others. The City of Greenville is not footing the bill alone. I will double check this though.

[MAJIKMAN]

Hmm... Perhaps I was mistaken. I don't think that funding comes from its own tax. I do know that funding comes from the county level as well as others. The City of Greenville is not footing the bill alone. I will double check this though.

Hmm... Perhaps I was mistaken. I don't think that funding comes from its own tax. I do know that funding comes from the county level as well as others. The City of Greenville is not footing the bill alone. I will double check this though.

They don't. The money is appropriated every year by the county. Just like the city.

[Skyliner]

I really hope GTA's plan does work to increase ridership. There are so many people driving into the heart of the city everyday not to make decent use of a transit system.

On a side note: Mayor White told something I hadn't really thought about before, but made me all the more proud of Greenville. He said that there are no parking meters in downtown Greenville, something that most people take for granted. He also said that while adding transportation such as the trolleys will be a good thing, one of the best aspects of downtown Greenville is that people get out and walk around.

[upstate29650]

They don't. The money is appropriated every year by the county. Just like the city.

Ok, something here doesn't pass the smell test.

On my property tax bill, it breaks out the different catagories that my tax money goes towards. From schools, to GTC, to the Peace Center (that's a new one on me...why isn't it self-sustaining!!?? ). If I'm paying a transit tax, it should show up on my notice as such.

I know in Georgia, for example, if you live in a municipality that offers public transit, you pay for some of it on your property taxes. You see it on your tax notice. However, if you don't live within two miles of a bus stop, you don't pay for it in taxes.

[gs3]

I really hope GTA's plan does work to increase ridership. There are so many people driving into the heart of the city everyday not to make decent use of a transit system.

On a side note: Mayor White told something I hadn't really thought about before, but made me all the more proud of Greenville. He said that there are no parking meters in downtown Greenville, something that most people take for granted. He also said that while adding transportation such as the trolleys will be a good thing, one of the best aspects of downtown Greenville is that people get out and walk around.

OMG! Never realized. So true....no parking meters.....no fumbling for quarters like in other cities. That's a pretty major source of revenue in most cities CBD's. Another gift from the utopia we call Greenville.

[breed]

At the risk of taking this further off-topic...

Isn't the lack of meters in Greenville strange? The garage lots are largely empty but are pay facilities... but the close spots are free. Personally, I'd prefer the other way around. A huge revenue source is being missed out on. And I think getting people to a walk a little more in downtown would be a plus. Maybe this is one of the reasons why our downtown is so Main Street-focused.

[GvilleSC]

Didn't Greenville take the meters out to help its revitalization? Or were their not any and they just kept them gone to attract people? How much revenue is really being missed out on? The MAIN time people are downtown is nights and weekends. (The city is cashing in on the daytime crowd-- business folk park in the garages). and on nights and weekends parking is free anyway. So... is the opportunity really being lost? I think that the advantage of free parking has paid off and is attracting businesses as well as their customers to make downtown Greenville a better, more vibrant place.

[charlie swords]

i would rather not see any parking meters ....they just look bad, in London they had a decent system where every so many spots was a little box that you put your money in and it spits out a little sticker for you to put on the inside of your window, and there wasn't a tacky looking meter every ten feet.

[breed]

Didn't Greenville take the meters out to help its revitalization? Or were their not any and they just kept them gone to attract people? How much revenue is really being missed out on? The MAIN time people are downtown is nights and weekends. (The city is cashing in on the daytime crowd-- business folk park in the garages). and on nights and weekends parking is free anyway. So... is the opportunity really being lost? I think that the advantage of free parking has paid off and is attracting businesses as well as their customers to make downtown Greenville a better, more vibrant place.

I guess my issue is more with the fact that we have parking garages that lie empty... simply because parking is free elsewhere. I know I get a little irritated when I'm have to pay for parking downtown simply because I'm not the fastest to find a free spot. When my colleagues and I go out to lunch, we've often avoided going downtown because we don't want to have to pay for parking in a garage (or drive around aimlessly hoping for a free spot.) Granted, it's not much, but it is a deterrent.

[Skyliner]

Didn't Greenville take the meters out to help its revitalization? Or were their not any and they just kept them gone to attract people? How much revenue is really being missed out on? ... I think that the advantage of free parking has paid off and is attracting businesses as well as their customers to make downtown Greenville a better, more vibrant place.

There were indeed parking meters all over downtown. Yes, one of the reasons for removing them was to attract more pedestrian traffic, thus improving business at all the shops and restaurants moving into the CBD. Is the City missing out on a large revenue by not charging for the parking? Probably somewhat, but they look at it as an investment and an extra appeal which brings more people into the city in the end.

[Spartan]

I guess my issue is more with the fact that we have parking garages that lie empty... simply because parking is free elsewhere. I know I get a little irritated when I'm have to pay for parking downtown simply because I'm not the fastest to find a free spot. When my colleagues and I go out to lunch, we've often avoided going downtown because we don't want to have to pay for parking in a garage (or drive around aimlessly hoping for a free spot.) Granted, it's not much, but it is a deterrent.

I find that the garages are fairly well used. The Richardson St garage is usually half full when I use it. (Usually the weekend). The garages that you have to pay for are not too expensive either- I know that the Spring St and Poinsett Garages require you to pay all of the time. Still, that is not a major concern.

[GvilleSC]

I guess my issue is more with the fact that we have parking garages that lie empty... simply because parking is free elsewhere. I know I get a little irritated when I'm have to pay for parking downtown simply because I'm not the fastest to find a free spot. When my colleagues and I go out to lunch, we've often avoided going downtown because we don't want to have to pay for parking in a garage (or drive around aimlessly hoping for a free spot.) Granted, it's not much, but it is a deterrent.

What are you saying? Would you still come downtown if there were no free spots? Or would you come more because everyone has to pay?

[breed]

What are you saying? Would you still come downtown if there were no free spots? Or would you come more because everyone has to pay?

I guess I wasn't clear. I think it would be better if the garages weren't pay and the up-front spots were.

I find that the garages are fairly well used. The Richardson St garage is usually half full when I use it.

Recently, there was a ULI group that came to Greenville and looked at issues with our downtown. One of the glaring ones was the inefficiency of parking downtown. We have alot of downtown real estate dedicated to parking... most of it is unused most of the time.

I think there may have been a parking study done associated with the ULI group, but I'll have to double check.

[Greenville]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that parking lots downtown in the CBD are a monumental waste of space. I suppose it will take years to gradually build things where parking lots currently are, but I hope that comes sooner rather than later. The first place I think of is the massive lot next to the Palmetto Bank downtown. That is a prime area, and most of it is wasted.

Fortunately, there are not many parking lots in the West End (not prominently located, anyway). Hopefully it will stay that way.