NAS Oceana

[mistermetaj]

FAA tells ocean front developers to stay out of the way

First of all, why the hell would they put a picture of Town Center with this article??? Think before acting VA Pilot!

Second of all, the navy needs to move the radar or put it on stilts at 1000ft(hyperbole obviously)...The navy can afford it...federal stimulus money anyone? They are seriously screwing the oceanfront every step of the way trying to block these major developments.

[vdogg]

FAA tells ocean front developers to stay out of the way

First of all, why the hell would they put a picture of Town Center with this article??? Think before acting VA Pilot!

Second of all, the navy needs to move the radar or put it on stilts at 1000ft(hyperbole obviously)...The navy can afford it...federal stimulus money anyone? They are seriously screwing the oceanfront every step of the way trying to block these major developments.

[vdogg]

On the flip side, it's rare to see the city fight the feds so vigorously on something like this. They usually just role over and play dead. As much as I liked Meyera (I voted for her last election) I really don't think she would've taken it to the mat like this. One of these rare instances where I am happy with the cities response.

[ronsmytheiii]

I am so sick of this base I don't know what to do. Virginia Beach needs to get some cajones and make a very important and tough decision about the future. This is no longer a sustainable relationship and obviously these folks don't care one hoot about the negative impact they are having on our city. Time to part ways.

[varider]

This really is a bad situation.. I didn't even know there was that many 20 story buildings proposed.. The navy doesn't have enough money to just relocate a whole base.. I'm sure this problem will be resolved.. We've run out of room down there because of the height restriction.. They probably have over 100 10-story buildings that are constantly filled with tourists.. Build HIGHER!!

This excerpt says it all:

The 10-story limit could also curb plans to redevelop the resort's skyline with taller, denser buildings to make the most of the small amount of developable land left at the Oceanfront. It also would make it difficult to build wind farms off the coast, said Councilman John Uhrin.

[mistermetaj]

Why is it just assumed that if Va Beach eliminated Oceana they will not be able to replace the "over a BILLION" dollars oceana creates in a few years. Ask Jacksonville how that has worked out for them...I think that's the same city that said NO to the BRAC when they tried to move Oceana back there.

Without Oceana, there is no huge employer, we would all be either fast food employees, man the hotels at the beach, or push papers in an office park.

[vdogg]

Without the large NAvy tax base there would not be money to redevelop the beachfront anyhow, and the demographics would completely implode on the young professional class. Hey I agree that this sucks, but dont throw out the baby with the bathwater!

[mistermetaj]

This statement is patently false. I have a very stable job, am not employed by the Navy, and if they left I am 100% certain my job will still be there. I have no intention of working fast food. My position in life is a result of my education, not the fact that the Navy is based in Va. Beach. I remember how the whole world was supposed to implode when Ford left this area. One year later and it's "Ford who?". We will adapt and recover, we always do. Base proponents have used these sky is falling predictions for years in an effort to stimy any opposition to anything the Navy does. We're supposed to simply accept everything they shove down our throats, and our elected officials are supposed to simply kowtow to any demand they make. It is a ridiculous scenario. The FAA radar is based at Oceana. Since it was already federal property they based it there rather than having to go through the process of acquiring land. This is admirable, but all things being equal had the base not been there the radar wouldn't be there either. To be fair though, since it is not Oceana itself fighting this development then I will expand my criticism to the federal government as a whole. Whether it is the Navy, GSA, or FAA, they have treated this area as a doormat. It is as though they believe we are here to serve them and not the other way around. We are in the middle of an economic crisis yet by some miracle there are 4 private developments ready to go. These private and job creating developments are effectively being blocked by the federal government, the same federal government which claims it is trying to save or create jobs. It simply makes no sense to me why they have to take such a hard line on everything where development is concerned in both this city and Norfolk. They are not trying to compromise, they are simply being arrogant and pigheaded.

[vdogg]

All of this aside, it is still just a recommendation from the FAA. The city council and Sessoms has the final decision on what will happen. Va Beach, not the federal government own the land on the oceanfront.

[ronsmytheiii]

This idea of "look at Jacksonville!" is naive, just because it worked in one place does not mean it would work in another. Look at the differences between Waterside and Boston's inner harbor! Plus Jacksonville had a larger economy and population than Virginia Beach does. I realize that the Navy does not pay taxes, but the sailor's do as well as the vendors that supply the base. If oceana were to leave businesses across the city who depend on the base would fold as well, there are quite a few! Not only that, there would be a huge surplus of housing as well as a lack of Federal money to schools that comes from military families.

Really we can be good neighbors, I want the existing planed buildings to come to fruition and a gradual turning over of Oceana to a new master jet base, I support height! Just be cautious and do things step by step, redevelop the beach frst into a more urban setting and put your extremely tall buildings in Town Center so I can enjoy them

PS I did not want to sound like I am attacking, I am definetely a new urbanist after taking Dr Joesph Scarpaci's Urban geography class, however this does not mean that Oceana has to be an obstace instead of a companion, just move the radar!

[varider]

What if the city used taxes from the new developments to get 12 million to relocate the radar? I really would like these three 20 story buildings to be built and I realize the effect the military has on virginia beach.. And yes, Jacksonville has 150,000 people more than we do (not to mention its the largest in land area and twice as large as virginia beach), but their metro is still smaller and I don't think their economy is stronger than hampton roads', just saying.. I think the Beach could still survive without Oceana.. I really don't know what the Beach should do.. As long as they continue to build skyscrapers in pembroke i'm fine

[HarryVB]

The whole theory about if Oceana leaves Virginia Beach. We will put ourself into a Economic downturn is a crock. Virginia Beach has always been a Major Resort City way before Oceana, Dam Neck were here in the 1800s. So they city needs to step up and say We are not dealing with anymore of your nosense. FAA and the military need to back off. We didnt have bases here in Virginia Beach back in the 1800s. But the city still grew and its still growing. we have major international companies headquartered here pumping billions into Va Beach.. And we need Oceana because? They are the largest employer and we need to protect their interests.. ITs all Bull. To make the city look like their beotch at the end. The city needs to continue with their development plans and see the economic boom it will create in the beach area. I mean hell. we already have town center and its become a success and its still growing. Virginia Beach has obviously outgrown the base. I say move them the hell out and take the land and build a world class city on the property where Oceana stands. 45k acres of prime real estate will cause a huge economic Booming especially if the news gets out Oceana did close down. Soo many developers would be scoping the land to build skycrapers, large businesses. The land value would shoot out the roof. people would be fleeing to Virginia Beach. No more noise, nomore you cant build here. height requirements.. The goverment needs to realize Virginia Beach is a large city and it will continue to grow with or without oceana.. So beat it Oceana!

[vdogg]

PS I did not want to sound like I am attacking, I am definetely a new urbanist after taking Dr Joesph Scarpaci's Urban geography class, however this does not mean that Oceana has to be an obstace instead of a companion, just move the radar!

[varider]

I heard the same thing last night. I really wish we were a normal metro that wasn't so dependent on the military. Someone should do an economic dependency study or something to see if we could function without the military dollar.I heard somewhere only like 80,000 people are here because of the military, that doesn't seem like a lot to me. What are the other 1.5 million here for? NOB the only cool military installation here. I like to look at the ships, they don't make noise, and it's kind of cool to house the atlantic fleet. Relocate the stupid radar, build our high rises and call it a day. If they refuse, let them leave. I think we could survive without Oceana. We have enough fortune 1000 presence in the area, enough tourism dollar, and enough tax base from town center, lynnhaven, ect.. BUILD THE HOTELS!

It'd be cool if they could build the 20 story hotels at town center and force tourists to ride the tide to the oceanfront!! That's an option, right? Maybe not for the hotels right on the ocean, but like the convention center hotel and ones further from atlantic.? How about it?

[mlsimons]

What would happen to Oceana if they ever closed down and left(some of you already know): Two words

Walt Disney! They've already sent executives up here, met with the city and met with the Feds. This would become taxable land with a higher muliplier effect on our export employment, tourism is a much cleaner industry and would work to diversify our tourism assests (which is currently just based in the water)... If this is the first time you guys are hearing about this it's been on the table for years, just never released to the press.

[varider]

What would happen to Oceana if they ever closed down and left(some of you already know): Two words

Walt Disney! They've already sent executives up here, met with the city and met with the Feds. This would become taxable land with a higher muliplier effect on our export employment, tourism is a much cleaner industry and would work to diversify our tourism assests (which is currently just based in the water)... If this is the first time you guys are hearing about this it's been on the table for years, just never released to the press.

[Padman]

It won't be Disney. It'll be Sponge Bob--mopping up the water from the rising sea level.

[jbhay]

It's always interesting to read those Pilot comments and notice how blatantly opposite the views are from mostly everyone here.

I'm currently working with the Navy as a civilian engineer fresh out of college. Don't intend on this being long-term at all. Spent a two week rotation at Oceana last summer.

That entire plot of land is useless in my honest opinion. I hate to say that because of the jobs that place obviously provides, but I also

think that it's restricting Virginia Beach's growth in a HUGE way. Not so sure how I feel about Disney either, we already have enough congestion as it is on our roads.

Anyways, I don't live in VB, but I honestly would get so sick of jet noise and don't understand how people put up with it. The two weeks I worked there, I was on the airfield for 9 hours a day doing pavement inspections and they take off, fly around, and land constantly. This is a horrible environment to live/work. Maybe it's the urban planning desire buried underneath my civil engineering focus, but that place could really be something amazing; its own little urban, mixed-use utopia.

What would VB be without Oceana? I'm not sure, but I think there's enough military in this entire region already. Someday, Oceana will be gone.

[vdogg]

Oh no, the last thing we need is more jets. Especially one that's louder. The fact that the Navy has indicated that the F-35's "acoustic footprint" is unclear, and yet Virginia Beach officials are trying to claim that he new jet will be quieter than an F/A-18, doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. It appears that beach officials, the same ones who claim they are trying to revitalize the oceanfront and allow for taller buildings in the area, are actually pursuing getting these jets based here. These two goals really don't go hand in hand.

[ronsmytheiii]

Oh no, the last thing we need is more jets. Especially one that's louder. The fact that the Navy has indicated that the F-35's "acoustic footprint" is unclear, and yet Virginia Beach officials are trying to claim that he new jet will be quieter than an F/A-18, doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. It appears that beach officials, the same ones who claim they are trying to revitalize the oceanfront and allow for taller buildings in the area, are actually pursuing getting these jets based here. These two goals really don't go hand in hand.

[urbanlife]

Hey, do not deny me my new shiny jets , (sorry, my main passion is aerospace)

[vdogg]

Golf Ball halts expansion

So, when Virginia Beach most recently applied for permission to construct 18 to 20-story buildings at several locations at the resort, about two miles from the radar, Air Force and Homeland Security officials objected.

This past summer city officials were told that buildings taller than 10 stories - or about 110 feet at the Oceanfront, including near the Convention Center where a hotel is planned - would block radar and threaten homeland security.

While the city is mindful of national security, "these are real problems for Virginia Beach," said Steve Herbert, a deputy city manager.

Beach officials recently estimated that the city would lose $1.3 billion in direct and indirect tax revenue over 50 years if the FAA only allowed buildings to climb nine or 10 stories at the Oceanfront.

Unanswered questions - about how severe the loss in radar coverage would be since there are already tall buildings at the Oceanfront and whether some of the city's proposed buildings would pose less of a threat to security - remain, Herbert said.

The city is working with the state's congressmen to find a compromise with the FAA and Air Force.