Student Housing

[artesia]

Hi. I'm new here and have been looking through the threads to find out info on how well off campus apartments have been serving the housing needs of the three colleges in the area. First, I'm not a student so I'm looking for some of your local opinions. First, I believe that on campus housing does not come anywhere near serving the housing needs of the students. Thus, they have to rely on off campus housing. It's also my understanding that the demand factor greatly outweighs the current supply of apartments set up for student housing.

If any of these perceptions are wrong, please feel free to let me know. However, if I am correct, do you think there will come a time when the market is balanced? If so, when do you think that will happen? Are they building enough new supply to take care of this - or not?

Could you also tell me if the following is an accurate, current depiction of the market?

"As per discussions with the Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Board, numerous projects were under

construction or proposed for development. The September 2005 Major Ongoing and Proposed Development Report indicated approximately 4,400 apartment units proposed or under construction. Of these units, 1,058 units or approximately 25% were proposed for student housing. According to Edward Young, Division Manager of Research, Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department, many of the projects listed in his report had been completed since the May report date. Our research indicated that Heritage Grove (350 units/700beds), Villa del Lago (88 units) and Seminole Suites (168 units or 336 beds) had all been completed. Some of the projects currently under construction include The Suites at Osceola Ridge (96 units or 336 beds, an expansion of Osceola Ridge formerly known as University Commons on Ocala Road), College Club (40 units located at 2833 S. Adams Street) and Campus Pointe Apartments (180 units located at 3000 S. Adams Street).

Proposed Future Units

In addition to the described student oriented projects currently under construction/recently completed, the following projects are presently under review, The Exchange at Gaines (220 units to be located at 402 W. Gaines Street, close to the FSU campus) and Gaines Street student housing (120 units located at 600 W Gaines Street, near the FSU campus), Alta Seminole (312 units, in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available), Lakes at San Marco (312 units in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available), The Village (163 units, in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available). Mr. Young indicated that his preliminary research suggested that proposed student housing units would decrease in 2006."

Anything you can add would be greatly appreciated.

[Glenn]

artesia, Welcome to Urban Planet - Tallahassee! I think you'll enjoy being a part of our group. You'll have to tell us a little more about yourself under the "Introduce yourself" thread.

I'm about to read your post now....just want to welcome you aboard!

[Florida]

Could you also tell me if the following is an accurate, current depiction of the market?

"As per discussions with the Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Board, numerous projects were under

construction or proposed for development. The September 2005 Major Ongoing and Proposed Development Report indicated approximately 4,400 apartment units proposed or under construction. Of these units, 1,058 units or approximately 25% were proposed for student housing. According to Edward Young, Division Manager of Research, Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department, many of the projects listed in his report had been completed since the May report date. Our research indicated that Heritage Grove (350 units/700beds), Villa del Lago (88 units) and Seminole Suites (168 units or 336 beds) had all been completed. Some of the projects currently under construction include The Suites at Osceola Ridge (96 units or 336 beds, an expansion of Osceola Ridge formerly known as University Commons on Ocala Road), College Club (40 units located at 2833 S. Adams Street) and Campus Pointe Apartments (180 units located at 3000 S. Adams Street).

Proposed Future Units

In addition to the described student oriented projects currently under construction/recently completed, the following projects are presently under review, The Exchange at Gaines (220 units to be located at 402 W. Gaines Street, close to the FSU campus) and Gaines Street student housing (120 units located at 600 W Gaines Street, near the FSU campus), Alta Seminole (312 units, in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available), Lakes at San Marco (312 units in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available), The Village (163 units, in early stages of permitting, information regarding this projects target market was not available). Mr. Young indicated that his preliminary research suggested that proposed student housing units would decrease in 2006."

Anything you can add would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to UrbanPlanet-Tallahassee Artesia!!

The Gaines Street Student housing you list for 600 W. Gaines Street may have been an oversight on the Planning Department's behalf. That is the site of the Marriott Residence Inn, currently under construction.

As far as the Exchange at Gaines project is concerned, there has been no permitting activity since 2004, so I'm to assume this project is not moving forward.

ADAR is the developer of The Village, but as planning department has told you, very little is known of what ADAR will do with this project. They announced it far in advance of the time they actually planned to start working on it. ADAR is also the developer of the Symphony Condominium project located at 123 Copeland Street. I'd assume work would begin to move forward with The Village pending success with the Symphony project. If you're interested in renderings, we do have them in the Development Index, and there are also threads for each of the two ADAR projects.

Recently, a group going by Place Properties has submitted a proposal to build 574 beds of "for-rent student housing" with 19,740 square feet of ground floor retail along the site's entire Gaines Street frontage. as well as a 570 vehicle parking structure designed to allow, at the City's discretion, a level to be added to provide additional public parking for more than 200 vehicles. This is an urban, pedestrian-friendly design consistent with the changes being proposed for Gaines Street. The student housing will be apartment style with four-bedroom/four-bathroom units, and 2 bedroom/2 bathroom units, fully furnished, high speed internet access, washer and dryers, full kitchens, built in desks. The complex will also have shared workout facilities, a common room "Town Hall" study rooms, and computer resources for residents. Currently planned there are 115, 4 Bedroom units which will rent at $468/month or ($5,618 annually) per suite, and 57 2 bedroom units which will rent at $572 monthly per unit or ($6,867 annually). Developer expects to open by August 2nd of 2007.

• The Suites at Osceola Ridge - have been completed and are now occupied.

• College Club have also been completed.

• Campus Pointe Apartments (Have been converted into Condominiums and are now up for Sale)

Other notable communities for College Students under development are 10 West apartments being built on West Tennessee Street. Also, SHS may try some modifications to some of their recently aquired properties such as Downunder (formerly Sterling University Grove) and Villa Christina.

My personal opinion of on campus housing is it needs to catch up with the times. Students are increasingly interested in their own personal space, and having restrooms, living rooms, and washer and dryer facilities located within their apartments wether they live with 3 other people or live alone is a must. There are few options on campus that would meet this criteria, and for that reason I think on-campus student housing suffers.

[artesia]

Welcome to UrbanPlanet-Tallahassee Artesia!!

Taurean - this is great! And thanks for your welcome. It's exactly the kind of info that I was looking for. With respect to your comment on campus housing, do you think it is because FSU was not given the funds to purchase land for their own development of the campus? I think I read about that in a statement on these boards regarding the landlocked position of the campus.

With respect to off campus housing, I have an appraisal that states that the off campus market has to provide for the needs of about 50,000 students at the three colleges that need to find their own housing off campus. Do you think the gap is that large? Do you have any estimate of the number of beds that are provided by off campus housing in apartment projects? Some other information I read said that while much of the gap is met through apartment projects, there also is a dependency on converted single family residences to take up the slack. But, there apparently is a moratorium on this type of building. Is this the situation?

Also, is SHS the premier developer of student housing in the area? If so, I might give them a call to see what they perceive the supply/demand balance to be (i.e., if they feel that further investment is feasible).

Again, thanks for the great information.

[Florida]

Taurean - this is great! And thanks for your welcome. It's exactly the kind of info that I was looking for. With respect to your comment on campus housing, do you think it is because FSU was not given the funds to purchase land for their own development of the campus? I think I read about that in a statement on these boards regarding the landlocked position of the campus.

With respect to off campus housing, I have an appraisal that states that the off campus market has to provide for the needs of about 50,000 students at the three colleges that need to find their own housing off campus. Do you think the gap is that large? Do you have any estimate of the number of beds that are provided by off campus housing in apartment projects? Some other information I read said that while much of the gap is met through apartment projects, there also is a dependency on converted single family residences to take up the slack. But, there apparently is a moratorium on this type of building. Is this the situation?

Also, is SHS the premier developer of student housing in the area? If so, I might give them a call to see what they perceive the supply/demand balance to be (i.e., if they feel that further investment is feasible).

Again, thanks for the great information.

No problem Artesia.

Honestly I feel FSU may have overlooked the imporantance of housing throughout the 90s and now finds itself trying to play catch-up. Sure FSU is landlocked, but there are properties South of the campus along Pensacola, and Jefferson Streets that I think the school should have aquired years ago.

Of the estimated 65,000 students in this city, I think it would be safe to assume most of them live off campus. FSU doesn't seem to have enough housing for its students so that large figure you quoted doesn't surprise me. TCC has virtually NO on-campus housing, FAMU has a good bit, but between A&M and State its hard for me to imagine 15,000 beds for students.

I know of no moritorium on housing anywhere in this city right now, but I'm not all knowing. I do know of a rooming house ordinance that puts limitations on use of single family neighborhoods for students.

SHS has definately positioned themselves as the dominant holder of local Student Housing. Although I do not like them, I would suggest you approach them for more information. I'd personally be interested in knowing what they say about Tallahassee's demand for student housing.

[DaiDreamer5]

I don't think lack of supply is a problem. It's lack of good student housing that is a problem. Most of the good places are instantly snapped up (as in there is an article in the paper, you make an appointment to see the place, get a call before your appointment that the place is gone). Most of the time you end up living in crappy place with annoying neighbors and bad maintaince.

A lot of student either don't know they are being taken advantage of or don't have the time or funds to make sure they aren't being taken advantage of (or do anything about it when they are).

I had a freind recently get an eviction notice because her roommate put up a colorful sign about the roofers working on the roof at 8am on a Saturday. No, "hey! can you take that down! thanks!" She got it taken care of, but the most amusing part was that they said that "We called your parents." My friend's mother is not on the lease. She pays her own way. The only reason why they have her mother's number is because she is listed as an emergancy contact. Just because she is a college student, they felt the need to not deal with her and try to talk to her mom, who has no clue about the situation.

If you want to find out the dirt about student housing, go to the fsu_noles Live Journal community. They have some back entries about student housing and you could post something asking about it. I'm sure you will get an earful!

[artesia]

Thanks folks for the great insight. I'm trying to talk to SHS, but they don't seem interested in returning my calls. I'll keep trying though and if I hear anything, I'll post.

[Florida]

Thanks Artesia. Tell us a little more about you... are you a local?

[stjoe]

"Sure FSU is landlocked, but there are properties South of the campus along Pensacola, and Jefferson Streets that I think the school should have aquired years ago."

The state won't give FSU money for land acquisition. They tried last year and Jeb vetoed the money. Without money, how can FSU acquire land?

[Florida]

If I recall correctly, FSU has been all over the news in recent years for its outstanding ability to raise money. As a matter of fact I heard of over $600 Million raised in its capital campaign. This money, I'd assume will go toward enhancing the campus (building new schools, renovating dining halls, removing perfectly good cement to put down red bricks for students to walk on, a sculpture here, a sculpture there, more parking garages, etc). Matter of fact I hear the school has sooo much money it would rather give back $11 Million in donations and matching dollars toward the construction of its new Chemistry building than allow a leading Chemistry professor to shape the vision of the college... compromise is always possible.

I'm sure somewhere in the many dollars the school has raised and given back, could have been a dollar or two to purchase a little land around the campus.

[Florida]

Just as a follow up, it appears the Place Properties proposal I described above will not move forward if City's staff reccomendation is approved by the City Commission. There is a slim posibility this one might go thru if the commissioners are in a good mood, or there is a very pursuasive person there at the meeting to speak in favor of it, but I wouldn't count on it.

[artesia]

I work for a national lender here in the State of Washington and we are looking at financing some student apartments in Tallahassee. We just want to make sure the market will not be oversaturated with off campus student apartments. From what I've quoted before, it doesn't seem like there is that much new product coming on line. But, you guys are there and it's good to get the local perspective. Thanks again.

[Florida]

You're more than welcome. We could certainly use some quality 1,2 bedroom student housing around here surely! I know it was difficult for me to find a 1 bedroom apartment this past summer... they go so quickly.

If I could ask, has a developer of a new project come to your bank to request financing for a project we are currently not discussing. We like to be a few steps ahead of the newspaper, so anything you could provide us would be great!!

[artesia]

You're more than welcome. We could certainly use some quality 1,2 bedroom student housing around here surely! I know it was difficult for me to find a 1 bedroom apartment this past summer... they go so quickly.

If I could ask, has a developer of a new project come to your bank to request financing for a project we are currently not discussing. We like to be a few steps ahead of the newspaper, so anything you could provide us would be great!!

I wish I could give you the scoop ahead of the local newspapers, but it's an existing property that is being purchased, so it's not adding anything to the market. Would you still consider a 3 or 4 bedroom arrangement with your own bathroom as an alternative to the 1 or 2 bedroom arrangement you've been looking for?

[DaiDreamer5]

I wish I could give you the scoop ahead of the local newspapers, but it's an existing property that is being purchased, so it's not adding anything to the market. Would you still consider a 3 or 4 bedroom arrangement with your own bathroom as an alternative to the 1 or 2 bedroom arrangement you've been looking for?

There are already a lot of those. Some people don't get along with roommates or want to live with a signficant other, thus the 1 or 2 bedroom apartment.

Just show up to the student housing event FSU has every semster and hand out free food and stuff, use the word "free" a lot and you will get renters.

Most student housing in the area has a bad management reputation, so if you do buy the place advertise that there is new management a lot.

[Florida]

Would you still consider a 3 or 4 bedroom arrangement with your own bathroom as an alternative to the 1 or 2 bedroom arrangement you've been looking for?

Me personally!? The answer is a big NO!! NEVER AGAIN! Been there, done that. I'd rather spend the extra $1-2 hundred dollars a month to live alone, than live with total strangers, who are not house trained. There are tons of 3/3, and 4/4 communities in town and they are ideal for social butterflies, and those with tons of friends... but not me. I'm far too much of a neat freak to ever do it again. The kitchen was never cleaned by the others, all of the furniture was mine, and it was abused by the others, they would wastefully use the climate control and run up the utility bill, then they were late paying the bill to me, which caused me to go into my pocket to cover their parts until they could come up with the money... it was too much stress. I'd much rather live alone.

We definately need more single unit apartments in Tallahassee.

[artesia]

Me personally!? The answer is a big NO!! NEVER AGAIN! Been there, done that. I'd rather spend the extra $1-2 hundred dollars a month to live alone, than live with total strangers, who are not house trained. There are tons of 3/3, and 4/4 communities in town and they are ideal for social butterflies, and those with tons of friends... but not me. I'm far too much of a neat freak to ever do it again. The kitchen was never cleaned by the others, all of the furniture was mine, and it was abused by the others, they would wastefully use the climate control and run up the utility bill, then they were late paying the bill to me, which caused me to go into my pocket to cover their parts until they could come up with the money... it was too much stress. I'd much rather live alone.

We definately need more single unit apartments in Tallahassee.

I hear you. So until that happens or you're fortunate enough to find a single or two unit apartment, it would appear that many students are forced into living with others - right? Like you said, for some, that's great but for others, it's tough.

[Florida]

I hear you. So until that happens or you're fortunate enough to find a single or two unit apartment, it would appear that many students are forced into living with others - right? Like you said, for some, that's great but for others, it's tough.

Some of us are forced to live with others, or move back in with our parents if we are locals. I'm a local, and I'd much rather live at home with mom and dad telling me what to do, when to do it, than be caught up in the situation I found myself in, when I had to live with total strangers.

[Florida]

Murph... add your thoughts on student housing for Artesia, man!

[csmurphy8885]

i was a lucky local. after highschool i moved into a 2 bdrm aprtment with my friend since kindergarden, above his parents woodshop, off williams rd. Living with him was fun, but it was cramped. I payed 100 month, no utlilities, no phone. It was nice for the time. But too far away from...everything.

I moved onto lovelace (i know, college kid central right) into a duplex with a younger dude who is a good enough friend (and cleaner than me, and way more on time with bills)<<across the street from my previous roomie>>

My dream would be a one beedroom rental higher than 10 floors up in a building DT. I would be willing to spend 400 a month for it. I am sure someone can make this a profitable development in this town. I must not ever be in a roomate matching situation, i would die. I pick who i live with. No other way will work.

Gaines street is perfect for student rental opertunities. But by the bed is the worst way to go in my opinion. I would like to see the same lot developed into a student oriented facility but not one that I wouldnt live in, because I think that more of the older college student age folks really would support it, and would want it to be more personalizable and private.

[EbonyGardens]

Seriously, if one of my roommates came up missing with their share of the rent money, there would be trouble. I give credit to those who have the patience to deal with idiot roommates acting like they have no sense, but that's not me. You folk would have seen my mugshot on the 11:00 news and be like, "I know that dude, he used to post on urbanplanet"

[csmurphy8885]

LOL... seriously... i remember that dude! I knew he was real!

[P_McLane]

My dream would be a one beedroom rental higher than 10 floors up in a building DT. I would be willing to spend 400 a month for it.

Wow! I feel I should interject that this is WAY below market for downtown. Anyone with interests in developing urban residential options for young people should be able to charge at least twice that for a private one-bedroom apartment with any sort of view.

I lived downtown in a one-bedroom apartment for five years. My rent started at over $500 and was nearly $600 last May, when I bought a house. The apartment complex was quite old, but decently maintained. The view out my window was of bushes; the apartment was partially below ground.

[poonther]

I lived downtown in a one-bedroom apartment for five years. My rent started at over $500 and was nearly $600 last May, when I bought a house. The apartment complex was quite old, but decently maintained. The view out my window was of bushes; the apartment was partially below ground.

Just taking a stab at this and guessing this was Embassy House (I think that's the name...I pass by it several times a day) on Gadsden between Carolina and Virginia?

[P_McLane]

Just taking a stab at this and guessing this was Embassy House (I think that's the name...I pass by it several times a day) on Gadsden between Carolina and Virginia?

You sure know your Tally!