How do we rank?

[krazeeboi]

well to be fair, 3 cities in the Charleston area made the list. Combined, I'm guessing that would outpace Columbia.

Yes. The list basically corresponds to the rate of growth our metros have been seeing as of late, with most of the growth along the coast.

But also, one big factor we are overlooking is opportunity (as in job/career opportunity). I have long held that most people move to Columbia for opportunity and then find that they like it. Whereas peoples seek out Charleston or Myrtle Beach, and to some degree Greenville as well.

Great point. I do agree.

[goodbye]

Fortunately, people are finding more opportunity in the Upstate than just textile and manufacturing-related jobs. I would say that the cultural opportunities here are second to none when compared with the rest of the state. If you think people only move to Greenville and Charleston because they've never looked closely at the other cities, you're greatly mistaken.

[CorgiMatt]

It is a no-brainer to you and many others who love it, but you cannot say that Columbia is the only place where you can get it all in the state of SC. Personally, I strongly believe there is a higher quality of living in both Greenville and Charleston, plus these two regions have a more defined setting either among the mountains or along the coast - which greatly adds to their individual appeal. Most of the people moving to Greenville don't consider the beach too far away at all, let alone the zoo in Columbia. As for the lake, the Upstate has some of the best in the nation. And I believe the little old Reedy River in Greenville has become a much greater attraction to many than the Congaree in Columbia. And if you love cold water trout fishing, you'll prefer the Upstate anyday of the year. This is all just my opinion, so take it as such, just as I have accepted yours as such. This survey, while interesting, is in no way a true indication of the entire population migrating to this state. The best thing it does is to give us something to debate about.

If Columbia's Main Street on both sides of the capitol, Five Points, the Vista, Devine Street, State Street and Finlay Park were all lined up along one narrow corridor and the Congaree River ran under it, Columbia's riverbanks would have the same scene on Friday and Saturday nights as Greenville's does. It goes back to the fact that Greenville and Columbia are laid out differently. Right now Greenville's layout makes for more people in one setting. We're spread out in pockets of activity here, but the gaps are being filled in on a continual basis.

[GvilleSC]

If Columbia's Main Street on both sides of the capitol, Five Points, the Vista, Devine Street, State Street and Finlay Park were all lined up along one narrow corridor and the Congaree River ran under it, Columbia's riverbanks would have the same scene on Friday and Saturday nights as Greenville's does. It goes back to the fact that Greenville and Columbia are laid out differently. Right now Greenville's layout makes for more people in one setting. We're spread out in pockets of activity here, but the gaps are being filled in on a continual basis.

I don't think so. You're totally making Greenville's downtown a lot less than what it is. Yea, maybe 5-10 years ago, before the West End was anything. Even 2 years ago maybe, but not today. It no longer extends from the Hyatt to the Peace Center, but to the Ballpark now, and soon farther up past the Hyatt with the Pinnacle being built. Greenville is really moving away from Main Street too. Heritage Green... Augusta Street... McBee Station. Our downtown park system takes you well off the beaten path too. We have pockets. They're just connected already. We're ahead of you.

[CorgiMatt]

I don't think so. You're totally making Greenville's downtown a lot less than what it is. Yea, maybe 5-10 years ago, before the West End was anything. Even 2 years ago maybe, but not today. It no longer extends from the Hyatt to the Peace Center, but to the Ballpark now, and soon farther up past the Hyatt with the Pinnacle being built. Greenville is really moving away from Main Street too. Heritage Green... Augusta Street... McBee Station. Our downtown park system takes you well off the beaten path too. We have pockets. They're just connected already. We're ahead of you.

I was just up there recently and the area covered is nowhere near the same size.

[krazeeboi]

I don't think so. You're totally making Greenville's downtown a lot less than what it is. Yea, maybe 5-10 years ago, before the West End was anything. Even 2 years ago maybe, but not today. It no longer extends from the Hyatt to the Peace Center, but to the Ballpark now, and soon farther up past the Hyatt with the Pinnacle being built. Greenville is really moving away from Main Street too. Heritage Green... Augusta Street... McBee Station. Our downtown park system takes you well off the beaten path too. We have pockets. They're just connected already. We're ahead of you.

I, like CorgiMatt, have found Greenville's center of activity to be more linear in nature as well (not that that's a bad thing), although that may be changing. Columbia's was never like that. The Vista is a success story not unlike Greenville's Main Street, but often gets overlooked. Five Points has always been hopping from my understanding, and while Columbia's Main Street does leave much to be desired, it does have some nice spots here and there. Taking all of that into account, I think I'd say the two are very much comparable in terms of centers of activity, but just layed out differently. And both are focusing on more centers of activity as well, such as the nodes you mentioned in Greenville and the mill villages and the area around Williams-Brice in Columbia. I somewhat find all of this amusing, because there are so many parallels in both cities and we seemed to be getting riled up over a non-scientific survey from a newspaper. The Census Bureau estimates have already shown us where the majority of people are moving, and that's to the coast, and the last time I checked, neither Columbia or Greenville were coastal cities.

[CorgiMatt]

I, like CorgiMatt, have found Greenville's center of activity to be more linear in nature as well (not that that's a bad thing), although that may be changing. Columbia's was never like that. The Vista is a success story not unlike Greenville's Main Street, but often gets overlooked. Five Points has always been hopping from my understanding, and while Columbia's Main Street does leave much to be desired, it does have some nice spots here and there. Taking all of that into account, I think I'd say the two are very much comparable in terms of centers of activity, but just layed out differently. And both are focusing on more centers of activity as well, such as the nodes you mentioned in Greenville and the mill villages and the area around Williams-Brice in Columbia. I somewhat find all of this amusing, because there are so many parallels in both cities and we seemed to be getting riled up over a non-scientific survey from a newspaper. The Census Bureau estimates have already shown us where the majority of people are moving, and that's to the coast, and the last time I checked, neither Columbia or Greenville were coastal cities.

Only percentage-wise for each coastal MSA, not the actual number of bodies.

[krazeeboi]

The Charleston MSA has added more bodies than any other MSA since 2000. Each coastal MSA has grown more percentage-wise though, you are correct.

[The_sandlapper]

This question may have already been answered but which MSA gained the most people (numbers) from 2000-2004?

[The_sandlapper]

Actually nevermind I found it here.

Greenville County is the largest county and had the biggest total numbers gain 2000-2004. However, growth does not respect county lines. There was little growth in Greenville's suburban counties Lauren and Pickens (surprising how little growth in Pickens). Clearly, Columbia and Charleston's suburban counties (Dorchester, Berkeley, Lexington, and Kershaw especially) are getting more of their respective MSA's growth. So since growth does not respect county boundaries, I did the numbers for the three MSAs for 2000 vs. 2004:

Charleston MSA

2004: 583,434

2000: 548,972

# Change: 34,362

% Change: 6.3

Columbia MSA

2004: 679,456

2000: 647,158

# Change: 32,298

% Change: 5.0

Greenville MSA

2004: 583,867

2000: 559,922

# Change: 23,945

% Change: 4.3

[GvilleSC]

I, like CorgiMatt, have found Greenville's center of activity to be more linear in nature as well (not that that's a bad thing), although that may be changing. Columbia's was never like that. The Vista is a success story not unlike Greenville's Main Street, but often gets overlooked. Five Points has always been hopping from my understanding, and while Columbia's Main Street does leave much to be desired, it does have some nice spots here and there. Taking all of that into account, I think I'd say the two are very much comparable in terms of centers of activity, but just layed out differently. And both are focusing on more centers of activity as well, such as the nodes you mentioned in Greenville and the mill villages and the area around Williams-Brice in Columbia. I somewhat find all of this amusing, because there are so many parallels in both cities and we seemed to be getting riled up over a non-scientific survey from a newspaper. The Census Bureau estimates have already shown us where the majority of people are moving, and that's to the coast, and the last time I checked, neither Columbia or Greenville were coastal cities.

It is very linear, but to say that it is only linear and the activity stops there... I'd have to say you're blind.

[CorgiMatt]

The Charleston MSA has added more bodies than any other MSA since 2000. Each coastal MSA has grown more percentage-wise though, you are correct.

That's right. I recall now. I can't find it now, but I remember posting an observation that while Charleston's MSA had gained a little over 2,000 people more than Columbia's since 2000, that between 2004 and 2005 the difference in population gain was narrowing, and I attributed that to Columbia's beginning to wake up from its nap later than the rest of the nation.

More recently in another post I wrote that the S.C. Employment Security Commission showed in its April edition of S.C. Workforce Trends that the Columbia MSA had the biggest net gain of jobs of all SC MSA's from 12/31/04 through 12/31/05.

I guess Columbia is now at the stage of splashing water on its face and getting the sleep out of its eyes following the nap.

[krazeeboi]

It is very linear, but to say that it is only linear and the activity stops there... I'd have to say you're blind.

Now that I never said. It's more of like a corridor of activity with smaller nodes.

That's right. I recall now. I can't find it now, but I remember posting an observation that while Charleston's MSA had gained a little over 2,000 people more than Columbia's since 2000, that between 2004 and 2005 the difference in population gain was narrowing, and I attributed that to Columbia's beginning to wake up from its nap later than the rest of the nation.

More recently in another post I wrote that the S.C. Employment Security Commission showed in its April edition of S.C. Workforce Trends that the Columbia MSA had the biggest net gain of jobs of all SC MSA's from 12/31/04 through 12/31/05.

I guess Columbia is now at the stage of splashing water on its face and getting the sleep out of its eyes following the nap.

Here are the latest numbers, courtesy of Spartan:

1 year statistics - change since 2004

Change in population:

South Carolina: 57,191 ... 1.4%

Upstate CSA: 12,969 ...... 1.1%

Greenville MSA: 7,334 .... 1.3%

Columbia MSA: 9,839 ...... 1.4%

Charleston MSA 11,427 .... 2.0%

5 year statistics - change since 2000 Census (April 1)

South Carolina: 243,071 ...... 6.1%

Upstate CSA: 57,430 ...... 5.1%

Greenville MSA: 31,311 .. 5.6%

Columbia MSA: 42,720 ... 6.6%

Charleston MSA 45,866 .. 8.4%

[g-man430]

Who really cares, Greenville County is still the most populous county in this state. These census charts are starting to get old.

[krazeeboi]

And Columbia still has the most populous MSA in the state, and Myrtle Beach is the fastest growing, and Charleston has the most populous urbanized area. There, ALL of our regions get some love.

[goodbye]

This crazy debate has turned into another city versus city thread. What we can and should all agree on is that we each have a strong preference for one city, but all of the cities and regions are experiencing steady growth for multiple reasons. We can't keep letting our prejudice get in the way of actually realizing the truth we often try to ignore about the others. Greenville is the best city in South Carolina to many, just as Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Columbia, and Rock Hill are to many others. The main thing is, we can be proud that each are continually adding quality developments at a very similar rate.

No more putting down the other cities, PLEASE!

[krazeeboi]

Well, I think we were OK until someone remarked (unnecessarily, might I add) that he "strongly believes there is a higher quality of living in both City X and City Y" than City Z (as well as the statements that followed). No "city-bashing" was occurring up until that point. At this point however, it's not a surprise.

At any rate, here's another ranking, and one that we should NOT be proud of. We rank last among the states regarding pollution from school buses. The average South Carolina school bus is 14 years old, exceeding the national average by five years; the fleet has 641 buses more than 20 years old.

Also, South Carolina has the only state-run bus system in the country. In other states, local school districts, other local boards or private firms run the bus system.

How about this news get sent to old Glennie? I only think it fair that modes of transportation that living people actually use take priority over a rusted historical artifact whose operators died over a century ago.

[distortedlogic]

I heard about this too, pretty sad. I just don't see how SC can be so behind in ALL of this stuff ALL the time!!!

We really need a face for irritated.

[gs3]

And Columbia still has the most populous MSA in the state

Strange that it's the largest MSA, but it's not the one gaining major national higher end retailers. Greenville's small MSA is the one getting Whole Foods, PF Changs, Pottery Barn, Coach, Vespa, Westin, Flemings, etc, etc. Go figure. Obviously Charleston's MSA gets things too. Hmmm.

[BrasilnSC]

Well, I think we were OK until someone remarked (unnecessarily, might I add) that he "strongly believes there is a higher quality of living in both City X and City Y" than City Z (as well as the statements that followed). No "city-bashing" was occurring up until that point. At this point however, it's not a surprise.

For real!!!!!

Anyway, it really is unbelievable how we rank last or next to last in just about everything. I know our state's history is important, but do we need to dwell in it so much that it affects progress.

[sonofaque86]

Strange that it's the largest MSA, but it's not the one gaining major national higher end retailers. Greenville's small MSA is the one getting Whole Foods, PF Changs, Pottery Barn, Coach, Vespa, Westin, Flemings, etc, etc. Go figure. Obviously Charleston's MSA gets things too. Hmmm.

Ooooh. that makes it sooo much better. coach and pottery barn. watch out Columbia!

[g-man430]

Every city in South Carolina has something another city doesn't and is unique at it. That's just the way it is and will always be that way, most likely.

[CorgiMatt]

Strange that it's the largest MSA, but it's not the one gaining major national higher end retailers. Greenville's small MSA is the one getting Whole Foods, PF Changs, Pottery Barn, Coach, Vespa, Westin, Flemings, etc, etc. Go figure. Obviously Charleston's MSA gets things too. Hmmm.

That's funny. Despite the fact that Columbia's MSA has for some reason been overlooked, undervalued and largely undiscovered, it still is gaining more people than Greenville's. Just think what's going to happen now that the capital city is finally getting attention from the heretofore nonastute.

[Jerseyman4]

Also, South Carolina has the only state-run bus system in the country. In other states, local school districts, other local boards or private firms run the bus system.

NC dosent do private firms either but im not sure if you could call it a state-wide bus system since the county school boards assume responsibility of maintience and fuel costs paid by county tax payers. A couple towns have city-school boards like Asheboro and Newton-Conover. In addition, this also includes drivers ed and its vehicles as well.

[CorgiMatt]

How do you start a new topic on this forum? I think we should start one as an exercise in paying other cities compliments. Here's how it would work. Name cities besides the one you identify with and tell at least one reason you would want to live there, no matter how much it kills you. I don't want to go first.