How do we rank?

[g-man430]

That's funny. Despite the fact that Columbia's MSA has for some reason been overlooked, undervalued and largely undiscovered, it still is gaining more people than Greenville's. Just think what's going to happen now that the capital city is finally getting attention from the heretofore nonastute.

I'm confused, I thought Greenville County had the largest population in the state, not Richland or Lexington Counties. Oh, your talking about the MSA, forget what I said then.

[sonofaque86]

I'm confused, I thought Greenville County had the largest population in the state, not Richland or Lexington Counties. Oh, your talking about the MSA, forget what I said then.

Yeah he was talking about MSA's plus Columbia extends into both counties

[krazeeboi]

Strange that it's the largest MSA, but it's not the one gaining major national higher end retailers. Greenville's small MSA is the one getting Whole Foods, PF Changs, Pottery Barn, Coach, Vespa, Westin, Flemings, etc, etc. Go figure. Obviously Charleston's MSA gets things too. Hmmm.

OK, I'm not seeing your point here; I was merely stating a fact--about ALL of our regions at that, yet you felt the need to single out Columbia, as you always do, for some unknown reason. It's getting old.

[gs3]

OK, I'm not seeing your point here; I was merely stating a fact--about ALL of our regions at that, yet you felt the need to single out Columbia, as you always do, for some unknown reason. It's getting old.

No older than back handed compliments of Greenville.

[krazeeboi]

"Back-handed" is definitely subjective, and only on your part. If you want to see instances where I've genuinely complimented Greenville on other forums (where very little to no Greenvillians post), PM me for the links. I'm more than certain the same cannot be said of you and Columbia.

Some people may actually start to like Greenville if some of you guys weren't so sensitive and didn't feel threatened everytime another city's strengths are mentioned. What any other city in the state has going for it takes NOTHING away from the others, and the faster we ALL realize that, the better off we'll be.

[sonofaque86]

amen!

[goodbye]

Krazeeboi, I know you tend to speak well of all the major cities in SC most of the time, and I sincerely thank you for that. However, there are those from other cities (Columbia included) besides just Greenville (which you singled out), who have consistantly made negative comments toward our city and its achievements, never once complimenting or appauding the positive developments taking place here. This is a fact, and thus I can understand gsupstate's position. Until everyone (Columbia-boosters included) is able to speak of the great things happening in this state's cities without trying to belittle any other, there will never be a profittable debate on this subject. I am guilty of this myself, and I know how difficult it is to bite my tongue when people continually make ignorant or uneducated comments about my hometown. Since I see this thread heading along the same old path we've been down before, I want to warn everyone that the negative comments must stop now, or this thread will be closed. I'm just asking everyone (myself included) to remain mature and not fall into the old muddy rut of negativity.

[gs3]

"Back-handed" is definitely subjective, and only on your part. If you want to see instances where I've genuinely complimented Greenville on other forums (where very little to no Greenvillians post), PM me for the links. I'm more than certain the same cannot be said of you and Columbia.

Some people may actually start to like Greenville if some of you guys weren't so sensitive and didn't feel threatened everytime another city's strengths are mentioned. What any other city in the state has going for it takes NOTHING away from the others, and the faster we ALL realize that, the better off we'll be.

No sensitivity here. I'm not from Greenville or South Carolina originally. Made an educated decision to move my companies regional offices to Greenville AFTER reviewing Charleston, Greenville and Columbia in depth. Two cities came out as dynamic, one as a little bit of a sleeper. I moved to Greenville, case closed. That said, all three cities are what they are, but I find it very telling about the state of attitude in Columbia that it's biggest booster is you Krazee AND you don't even live there! I think Columbia needs to work on the inside and then maybe it won't feel as insecure. My comment about Whole Foods, Coach etc was not a negative against Columbia. It was a very valid point that the largest MSA has been the least recognized by national retailers (another telling sign). In most states, the largest MSA's get the national retailers attention first....ie: Birmingham in Alabama, Charlotte in NC, Nashville and Memphis in TN, and so on. So with that said, I'm out of this....I'll post only in the Greenville forum.

[krazeeboi]

This thread shouldn't turn into a "Well I just post in my own little enclave" type of thing--it certainly won't for me. I enjoy seeing the progress in ALL of our major cities, and will continue to applaud their efforts as well as provide constructive criticism while highlighting the positives.

As to why Columbia tends to lag as far as attracting national retailers, it's really a no-brainer: although it's the largest MSA in the state, the Upstate by far constitutes the largest CSA (which was formerly an MSA), with Greenville being the principal city in the region. Charleston's emphasis on tourism also guarantees that it gets more national retailers as well. And Myrtle Beach is, well, Myrtle Beach. At any rate, I'm more than certain that most Columbians probably travel to Charlotte for certain options not available in their own metro, since it has many stores that have no presence whatsoever in South Carolina. However, in my book, that doesn't make for a vibrant, growing city, nor should it constitute a "bottom line" when deciding the value of an area--unless you're a label whore that is. I don't see this as a point of insecurity in Columbia (and that would be sad if it were the case), because despite that, it has many things going for it--the smaller things will fall into place over time. Recognizing faults in an area is OK, but it shouldn't come across as rubbing it in the faces of the residents and well-wishers to justify a choice you made (which it often does); let Greenville be what it is, and let Columbia just be.

I just find it irritating that many times, Columbia, more than any other city on this forum, seems to get bashed on for no apparent reason. You'd think the place was Youngstown or Newark (no offense to any residents or natives of those cities) from some of the comments made by others. Apparently it's a great big anomaly of a city--fastest growing inland MSA, largest city in the state, highest per capita income, most educated population, etc., yet is a hellhole. I just don't get why some seem to hate on the place so much. If you don't live there, plan to live there, or aren't truly a well-wisher, why should it matter to you that it doesn't rank high on the national retailers list? Why are you so worried about crime stats? What's the big deal to you about Main Street? To me, only those who feel as though they have something to prove about their own city bring up stuff like this. You don't have to like it; if you don't, just let it be and let the Columbians and future Columbians have their low quality of life hellhole.

There, now I've gotten that off my chest.

[Jerseyman4]

^Columbia in general has been improving ever since i first went there in early 2002. Gervais St by the Congaree river is one example.

[gs3]

If you don't live there, plan to live there, or aren't truly a well-wisher, why should it matter to you that it doesn't rank high on the national retailers list? Why are you so worried about crime stats? What's the big deal to you about Main Street? To me, only those who feel as though they have something to prove about their own city bring up stuff like this. You don't have to like it; if you don't, just let it be and let the Columbians and future Columbians have their low quality of life hellhole.

Right back at ya.....you posted stats on the cities just the same. Sorry if the crime thread ranking reflects badly on a city, but hey, this thread was titled How Do We RANK! I think there are some threads in the Southern forum that are VS. threads that YOU started....ie: Greenville VS Chattanooga, Columbia VS Greenboro. I don't start that kind of s***. If you don't live in Greenville, why did you do a VS thread??????So clean up around your own doorstep man. I take your above e-mail as a personal attack on me.

[krazeeboi]

I thought you were only going to post in the Greenville forum from now on.

Sure I post stats, but the difference is that the stats that I post don't exclusively reflect well on one place and/or reflect negatively on another. The crime stats were important, but the implication was "Oh Columbia has such a big problem down there, but we're crime free up here" (because in Greenville's case, "Numbers can be skewed" [your words] but they stand strong in Columbia's case)--and you even posted those stats TWICE as if we didn't see them the first time. And if you look at any "versus" thread that I initiated or commented on about Greenville, you will see that I DEFENDED Greenville in every last one. My record stands on that one. I started those threads to reflect positively on South Carolina without necessarily reflecting negatively on any other city. That is the difference between you and I, my friend.

This thread needs to be locked.

[g-man430]

This is off topic, but Greenville and Charleston both have at least one waterpark and I was wondering if Columbia had one. This is not bashing Columbia or nothing so don't think that. I'm just curious to see if they have a waterpark or not, because I couldn't find one on the web.

[krazeeboi]

I didn't know Greenville had a waterpark. The only one in the Columbia area I'm aware of is Saluda Shoals. I know it's nothing like Charleston's though.

[g-man430]

Thanks. Yeah, Greenville has one waterpark in the southern part of the county that opened last year called Discovery Island Water Park and the recreation district is planning to build another one in the northern part of the county soon. It's not a very big water park though. Here's the website for it: http://www.gcrd.org/discoveryisland.html

[krazeeboi]

That looks cool; why couldn't the county just build one centrally located park for residents of the entire county?

[g-man430]

I was wondering the same thing, seeing how the central part of the county has the most people and is between everybody too. I heard they did it this way because the place where they built this water park used to have a large public swimming pool that was in bad need of repairs and didn't get very many visitors yearly. The waterpark idea was to get people to come back to that area and luckily it turned out to be a huge success.

[sonofaque86]

I wish I had the money to build a waterpark in Columbia...It would make a KILLING

[krazeeboi]

I was wondering the same thing, seeing how the central part of the county has the most people and is between everybody too. I heard they did it this way because the place where they built this water park used to have a large public swimming pool that was in bad need of repairs and didn't get very many visitors yearly. The waterpark idea was to get people to come back to that area and luckily it turned out to be a huge success.

Ahh, I see; it makes some sense now. I assume the park in the northern part of the county would be about the same size as the one in the southern part?

Sonofaque, I agree; I'm more than certain the land exists in either Richland or Lexington to build one. Somebody needs to step up and do something BIG, like Wet and Wild in Greensboro, which is currently the largest waterpark in the Carolinas.

[waccamatt]

I thought there was a waterpark at Fort Jackson. Regarding retailers, there are plenty of retailers that are located in Columbia, but not other parts of the state, such as American Apparel (Columbia and Charleston, but not Greenville). I hardly think having a Crate & Barrel or most of the other retailers mentioned, improves the livability of a city. I buy most things online, anyway. I think the reason there is so much Columbia bashing by other areas of the state is because of jealousy. Columbia has the lowest housing prices, highest income and most educated populace of any of the state's 3 big metros and I will take that over a retail chain any day of the week.

[g-man430]

Ahh, I see; it makes some sense now. I assume the park in the northern part of the county would be about the same size as the one in the southern part?

Yes, the one their going to build in the northern part of the county is going to be pretty much the same size as the one in the southern part of the county. I imagine they'll start building it in the next year or two when they get the money to fund it.

[The_sandlapper]

Yeah I don't get it either it's like post all the positive things going on in Columbia or the midlands then it's like a target on your back too recievce a bashing and personal bias & falsehood stated as fact, usually then the strongest arguements bashers can come up with is that well Columbia doesn't have the same retail that Greenville or Charleston has, or that well Richland County doesn't have as many people as Greenville County, that's pretty weak. Truth is that if Columbia wasn't percieved as a threat then we wouldn't be having these arguments. Like Krazee said if you listen to what some people say one would think that Columbia is some kind of 3rd world country, and yet inspite of all of the positive things that are pushing through the region right now the only thing people can say is well they don't have the same "national retailers", is that the measureing stick to success? If that's the case that's pretty lame. None of our "big 3" are head and shoulders above the other that's the bottom line. People from outside SC don't tend to think so if they are even thinking about the backwards acting, dog chasing its tail, valley of shame crushed between our two neighbors who are continually kicking our butts because we still want to be top dog in SC. Like I said before I just don't get it.

[sonofaque86]

LOL!!!

[krazeeboi]

You are right Sandlapper. In some cases, we are only arguing about being first among cripples--thanks to a dismal, dimwitted, shortsighted state legislature. If it can get its foot off our cities, then I'm sure we'd see ALL of them take off.

[Greenville]

I don't have anything against the non-Greenville metros, or the people who reside there. I think the same is true for the overwhelming majority of Greenville forumers here. However, let's be clear that nobody who posts in this forum is purely objective. Everyone has their favorite, even if they genuinely root for the state's other metros as well. There is nothing wrong with that, until some people take it personally and start a peeing contest. That doesn't benefit anyone, does it?

A great example of this is when I posted the fact that Greenville County is the most densely populated county in the state. Almost immediately, someone responded (I don't recall who, but it doesn't matter) that "urbanized areas are more important" and that "Charleston is clearly more urban." That's all fine and good, but the discussion was about densely populated counties. Why couldn't that be accepted at face value, much like the fact that Columbia being the state's largest city is?

When I mentioned that the city of Greenville is the densest city in the state in terms of population, a similar attack resulted where people cried about Greenville having a small city limit, how lines can be drawn to benefit any city, etc. Maps were posted. A casual observer would wonder why the facts I posted were being argued against - to the point that some weren't even acknowledging them as legitimate!

That's not all. In the 2000 census, the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson MSA was by far the state's largest at just under 1 million. Is it ever acknowledged as such by anyone here not from Greenville? Rarely. Frequently, people like to argue that it is only larger in population because it is comprised of more counties than the other metros. Or they say that it "isn't really one metro, based on how it feels."

I don't really care if someone else here prefers another area to Greenville. That is their right. But what is childish is when people don't even acknowledge commonly-accepted facts because they feel like it threatens their own city. I am fine knowing that Columbia is the state's largest city. I am also okay knowing that Charleston is growing at an impressive rate, and is the state's major tourist draw. But come on, in the process of cheering for your own preferred metro, don't forget that the state's largest MSA as of the last census is now over 1 million in population, and boasts the state's most densely populated city and county. It also has some wonderful restaurants, a top notch arts scene, a very culturally diverse population as a result of the high amount of international investment, and genuine Southern hospitality. Everyone here should know that, but perhaps some of you missed it the other times when reading through your own rose-colored glasses.