Roswell and Alpharetta losing population?

[Newnan]

According to the census Bureau's quick facts page, Roswell and Alpharetta which were boomtowns in the 90's, are now losing population. What gives? I would except cities like East Point to be losing people, but now prosperous towns in the northern suburbs. Anybody care to explain thi to me?

[ironchapman]

Well, Fulton County has been losing population in recent years (even though Atlanta still posts gains apparently), so I guess it has to come from somewhere.

You do have a point though, I would expect that it would be some areas of South Fulton to be losing more than North Fulton .

[teshadoh]

Based on 'Population Finder', Roswell has made small gains since 2000:

2004 2000 1990

Population 85,044 79,334 47,923

Alpharetta has actually lost population:

2004 2000 1990

Population 34,245 34,854 13,002

But - though I have a different explanation on your other thread - since the dot com bust, many of those mcmansions have been vacated by out of work techies. Otherwise - cool, good to see the population growth is stabilizing in the exurbs.

[UrbanAtl]

I think that it's difficult to look at pop figures these days because our cities and towns are changing. In the past a family with four children may have been the norm. Today I think that smaller families are the norm. It's the only way that i can explain the amount of new construction coupled with unimpressive pop growth.

[Newnan]

Based on 'Population Finder', Roswell has made small gains since 2000:

2004 2000 1990

Population 85,044 79,334 47,923

Alpharetta has actually lost population:

2004 2000 1990

Population 34,245 34,854 13,002

But - though I have a different explanation on your other thread - since the dot com bust, many of those mcmansions have been vacated by out of work techies. Otherwise - cool, good to see the population growth is stabilizing in the exurbs.

Roswell is more like a suburb; its only about 20 miles from the city

[dixiecupdrinking]

I wonder if this trend holds even when you account for the unincorporated parts of North Fulton with Alpharetta addresses? Are you out there Celeste? I moved out of the Johns Creek area about a year and a half ago and haven't been back since but it seemed still to be growing at the time.

Maybe people will keep fleeing traffic up into Forsyth and Dawson.

[Andrea]

Are you out there Celeste? I moved out of the Johns Creek area about a year and a half ago and haven't been back since but it seemed still to be growing at the time.

Isn't Johns Creek supposed to be incorporating soon?

[teshadoh]

Roswell is more like a suburb; its only about 20 miles from the city

Sorry Newnan - not sure what your point is. Could you elaborate?

[Unifour]

Actually, Fulton County is experiencing significant growth. Fulton County recently protested the census figures, and the Census Bureau agreed with the more certain local figures and updated Fulton County to 905,082. I think this is the 2004 or 2005 figure. That is up from 816,000 in 2000. Fulton County has grown by nearly 100,000. According to the data, the census also agreed with the municipalities in Fulton and changed thier numbers also. The city of Atlanta was updated from 419,000 to 425,000. Alpharetta and Roswell and Sandy Springs also show growth according to the new numbers from the ARC and the Census Bureau.

Teshadoh, I think Newnan meant that Alpharetta and Roswell are not exurbs. Exurbs are largely rural, bedroom communites and Roswell and Alpharetta are highly developed suburban cities. Correct me if I am wrong Newnan.

[Newnan]

No you're right. I live in Newnan which is definitely an exurrb, but my grandmother lives in Roswell which is definitely a suburb. I know this because there are many differences. Newnan has only been developing in teh past 10-15 years while Roswell has been developed for over 25 years. Newnan still has many rural areas while pretty much all of Roswell is developed. Newnan has a definite small town southern feel, inhabited mainly by tried and true southern folks, many of whom's families have lived in this town for generations. On the other hand Roswell, which is still southern and I'm sure has some old line Roswell families, is inhabited by many more transplants and suburbanites.

[teshadoh]

^ I lived in Roswell myself 10 years ago & understand your arguement. But based on my 'personal' criteria, I view it as exurban. In the past I would agree with you, but I now have a broader definition of exurban to describe 'post-modern' design - rather than the traditional suburban residential character. By that method, I consider most of Atlanta to be suburban, rather than urban.

Feel free to disagree, but there aren't any qualifiable definitions of urban, suburban or exurban.

[Newnan]

You're right, In Atlanta urban, suburban and exurban to tend to blend together, but in my mind there are some definable characteristics among them

[Lady Celeste]

I wonder if this trend holds even when you account for the unincorporated parts of North Fulton with Alpharetta addresses? Are you out there Celeste? I moved out of the Johns Creek area about a year and a half ago and haven't been back since but it seemed still to be growing at the time.

Maybe people will keep fleeing traffic up into Forsyth and Dawson.

Two things.....Alpharetta city limits are small. Just because one has an Alpharetta address doesn't mean they live in the city limits proper and they are not counted in Alpharetta's total. Most of the growth does occur outside of the city limits. The John's Creek area is still growing however it is not in the city limits of Alpharetta. If fact if you remember correctly, our zip code is 30097 which is a Duluth zip although Duluth proper is in Gwinnett. 30097 encompasses a small portion Gwinnett, Fulton and Forsyth county so based on how the census calculates population, I have no idea which county gets the credit for this zip code. I would imagine Gwinnett.

Having said that, I also do think that alot of growth fulled in southern Forsyth has been because of "overflow" from Fulton. It's not that Fulton is a bad county but the taxes are very high in comparison to Forsyth.

Isn't Johns Creek supposed to be incorporating soon?

Well there is talk about incorporation of John's Creek...a la Riverside. Right now there is still talk because some neighborhoods want to go with Alpharetta and some want to go with Riverside.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Two things.....Alpharetta city limits are small. Just because one has an Alpharetta address doesn't mean they live in the city limits proper and they are not counted in Alpharetta's total. Most of the growth does occur outside of the city limits. The John's Creek area is still growing however it is not in the city limits of Alpharetta. If fact if you remember correctly, our zip code is 30097 which is a Duluth zip although Duluth proper is in Gwinnett. 30097 encompasses a small portion Gwinnett, Fulton and Forsyth county so based on how the census calculates population, I have no idea which county gets the credit for this zip code. I would imagine Gwinnett.

Right. I think we're saying the same thing, basically, which is that in this area population figures for the incorporated cities of Roswell and Alpharetta (and Duluth and Norcross and...) really don't account for the actual nature of growth in the area.

I was in 30005, myself, with an Alpharetta address just off McGinnis Ferry but in the new Northview High district. It's all so confusing. I guess the idea of using mailing addresses from towns in different counties must come from a time when the area was rural and people just needed to use the closest town as a reference point? I remember people in Johns Creek having a tough time convincing people from other parts of the area that yes, believe it or not they're both in Fulton county and in "Duluth." Meanwhile, kids from "Duluth" don't go to Duluth High School but Chattahoochee in Alpharetta.. my parents must have had a hell of a time figuring that all out coming from New England where everything is incorporated as a town.

[Unifour]

^ I lived in Roswell myself 10 years ago & understand your arguement. But based on my 'personal' criteria, I view it as exurban. In the past I would agree with you, but I now have a broader definition of exurban to describe 'post-modern' design - rather than the traditional suburban residential character. By that method, I consider most of Atlanta to be suburban, rather than urban.

Feel free to disagree, but there aren't any qualifiable definitions of urban, suburban or exurban.

I have no personal objections to your "personal criteria."

However, I read all the time that exurban means beyond the suburban fringe... Meaning rural counties experiencing rapid growth and subdivisions sprouting up, but not developed wholly. It can also mean small towns that are bedroom communities, according to most of what I read about the subject. I am by no means an expert at development patterns.

You are correct that most of Metropolitan Atlanta would be suburban, however, the most central parts of the city, and many nodes within the suburbs are urban by almost any measure. They appear to make the distiction between these 3 patterns based on density or whether it is largely developed or largely rural. Someone wrote that development can be bad, whether it is urban, suburban, or exurban. I couldn't agree more. Some of urban Atlanta is bad, while some of suburban Atlanta is pretty good.

[Lady Celeste]

Right. I think we're saying the same thing, basically, which is that in this area population figures for the incorporated cities of Roswell and Alpharetta (and Duluth and Norcross and...) really don't account for the actual nature of growth in the area.

You're right.

I was in 30005, myself, with an Alpharetta address just off McGinnis Ferry but in the new Northview High district. It's all so confusing. I guess the idea of using mailing addresses from towns in different counties must come from a time when the area was rural and people just needed to use the closest town as a reference point?

That's what I would wager.

I remember people in Johns Creek having a tough time convincing people from other parts of the area that yes, believe it or not they're both in Fulton county and in "Duluth." Meanwhile, kids from "Duluth" don't go to Duluth High School but Chattahoochee in Alpharetta.. my parents must have had a hell of a time figuring that all out coming from New England where everything is incorporated as a town.

Yeah, it's crazy because when people ask me where I live, if I say Duluth they immediately think Gwinnett county. They proceed to ask my what I think of Duluth High School. Oddly enough, if my daughter attended public schools, she would be going to Northview next year. After hearing the great things coming from that school, I may relent to her wishes and allow her to go there. Northview won the Governor's award two years in a row. Only one school in the state gets the award.

It's like Duluth has four high schools....Chattahooche, Duluth Northview and South Forsyth. It is terribly confusing though. Maybe all that will change when the new Riverside is formed. From what I have seen in the fifty million years I have lived in northern Fulton county, it is still growing although no where near as fast as it was from when I was in high school till 2002. In many regards population growth has probably trailed off because there has been a backlash against unchecked development in the north Fulton area.

[Newnan]

My aunt and uncle live off of Winward Pkwy north of Alpharetta and the area they live in seems to be having a lot of growth, so to hear that Alpharetta was losing population really confused me.

[Topped Out]

It's like Duluth has four high schools....Chattahooche, Duluth Northview and South Forsyth. It is terribly confusing though.

This is true. I live in Duluth on the Gwinnett County side (30097). Northview High School is literally one mile away from me on the Fulton County side of the Chattahoochee; however, the high schoolers in our subdivision go to Duluth High School. It would seem to make more sense for them to go to North View since its closer and because many other Duluth students go to Chattahoochee High School in Alpharetta as someone previously mentioned. It's all very bizarre.

[Andrea]

I live in Newnan which is definitely an exurrb, but my grandmother lives in Roswell which is definitely a suburb.

Newnan and Roswell are two of my favorite areas in the Atlanta area. I wouldn't mind living in either one of them if they weren't quite so far from the places I need to be.

[Newnan]

Yeah, they're both great towns. Newnan is pretty cool because a large part of the city is laid out in the way a lot of old northern suburbs are laid out. I'm lucky because I can walk to downtown Newnan