WANDERING: MetroLofts

[Garris]

Between this and the Atwells parcel next door I do wonder if everyone wouldn't just be happier maintaining the highway as the dividing line and building up Downcity and the JD first. I personally don't have a strong opinion either way, but I do think that if there is demand for a couple of 300 footers on these parcels, then if thye don't get build there should be similar demand for a couple of 300 footers on the W streets.

While we all would love to see downcity further built up, this, as you yourself point out, is one of those "Simcity" moments. 300 footers would be great downtown, but these individuals already own the land there, and in the case of Metrolofts, it's a great fit for its location and seems to be a good project.

I'm not sure what the WBNA really wants for connection to Downcity.

I'm not sure either. My guess is they don't know what they want either. This is one of the problems with neighborhood associations. They're reactionary, great at opposing things, poor at mapping out visions for what they want.

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

My guess is they don't know what they want either. This is one of the problems with neighborhood associations. They're reactionary, great at opposing things, poor at mapping out visions for what they want.

- Garris

oh snap!

i think they have been very clear about what they want. They have numerous documents, overlay zones, action plans etc that have been fully vetted by the group as well as the planning department. Unlike other organizations which really do just kvetch, they have brought money to the neighborhood in the form of grants, Transportation Enhancements, CDBG, and other funding, are building small scale affordable housing, continue to support the local businesses, and put together neighborhood programming that people really respond to. They just don't want a wall of tall buildings cutting them off from downtown, or for massive buildings to take over several city blocks, or for small houses to be in the constant shadow of(literally as well as figuratively)-- or torn down for-- large projects which may or may no be beneficial to the neighborhood.

[webbage]

oh snap!

i think they have been very clear about what they want. They have numerous documents, overlay zones, action plans etc that have been fully vetted by the group as well as the planning department. Unlike other organizations which really do just kvetch, they have brought money to the neighborhood in the form of grants, Transportation Enhancements, CDBG, and other funding, are building small scale affordable housing, continue to support the local businesses, and put together neighborhood programming that people really respond to. They just don't want a wall of tall buildings cutting them off from downtown, or for massive buildings to take over several city blocks, or for small houses to be in the constant shadow of(literally as well as figuratively)-- or torn down for-- large projects which may or may no be beneficial to the neighborhood.

That's all good and fine, but I still can't find any details about MetroLofts. All they say is that it will ruin the fabric of the neighborhood. That's specific.

[jencoleslaw]

they have been quite specific about their concerns at CPC meetings regarding the street abandonment for this project. They have also met with the developer to try to work out some of their concerns. I couldn't find on the website where it says it will ruin the fabric of the neighborhood, but in the mission of the organization there is this (emphasis mine)

The WBNA organizes neighbors and businesses on the West Side of Providence to preserve and promote our diverse, historic, urban community as a safe, vibrant, and sustainable place to live,work, and play.

WBNA --in partnership with other organizations, businesses, and officials seeking to improve the City of Providence-- works to:

Provide neighbors with resources to solve community problems and opportunities to become a powerful voice in neighborhood planning and development

Strengthen relationships among neighbors to build community and civic involvement

Reflect the diversity of the West Side in the organization's leadership and membership

Promote a strong sense of pride and place

Maintain economic diversity in the neighborhood

Create and maintain a safe and clean neighborhood

Protect our parks, and return trees and green space to our neighborhoods

Advocate for equitable municipal and state policies and services for the West Side

Preserve the urban and historic fabric

Guide new development to complement the existing built environment

Develop renovation and infill projects for residential, commercial, and mixed-use properties that conform to the West Side Overlay District

Nurture local businesses and sustainable mixed-use development on the West Side's main streets

Also, metro lofts hasn't come before any body yet. they have asked for a street abandonment, that is it, as far as i know. have they gone before ZBR?

[oak]

Also, metro lofts hasn't come before any body yet. they have asked for a street abandonment, that is it, as far as i know. have they gone before ZBR?

Metro Lofts was on the ZBR docket months ago and the applicant requested a continuance the night of the hearing. The hearing has never been rescheduled.

Also, off topic for those of you interested in the LED sign on the glass cube attached to the Holiday Inn/Hilton, the ZBR approved it 5-0 at the last meeting. The Planning Department is still negotiating some of the content that can be displayed.

[CtownMikey]

YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! (for the Hilton sign!)

[Cotuit]

This project, sadly, has died.

[webbage]

This project, sadly, has died.

Where did you hear this? I was so excited about this project since it's so close to my office.

[Cotuit]

Where did you hear this? I was so excited about this project since it's so close to my office.

Two places, offcially from the Planning Department. The process became too annoying and expensive, and some of the process they made on acquiring the lots reversed. It's a shame, I thought it was among our best new proposals.

[quente]

This project, sadly, has died.

"Ding dong the witch is dead . . . "

Sorry but the density on this project was too high; it needed to be scaled down. Great idea, wrong location.

[Cotuit]

Sorry but the density on this project was too high; it needed to be scaled down. Great idea, wrong location.

Why do you think the density was too high?

[Jerry2]

"Ding dong the witch is dead . . . "

.

Is this a reason to celebrate? While I think nobody should hold their breath for any proposed large-scale residential development, your logic is unsubstantiated and quite frankly...ludicrous. I am really waiting for you to give any idea or direction you'd like to see your neighborhood take because every post you've made is about the destruction of character and the threat of 2k foot Dubai skyscrapers taking over Federal Hill and the West End...I have yet to understand your real frustration with this matter but I have to say I do agree with Garris 100% when he said that neighborhood groups would be so much more effective if they stuck to what their original intentions were instead of creating some inner socialist fabric!

[quente]

Why do you think the density was too high?

Two 16 story towers is a large-scale residential project in a small-scale neighborhood.

With the planning charette underway, I also thought that this project was premature. Before any single project attempts to push the development envelope, I think it's sensible for the community to have all its ducks in a row in terms of planning/zoning regs.

[Jerry2]

Two 16 story towers is a large-scale residential project in a small-scale neighborhood.

With the planning charette underway, I also thought that this project was premature. Before any single project attempts to push the development envelope, I think it's sensible for the community to have all its ducks in a row in terms of planning/zoning regs.

[Cotuit]

Two 16 story towers is a large-scale residential project in a small-scale neighborhood.

It's in a neighborhood that barely exists. What about the scale makes it so bad?

With the planning charette underway, I also thought that this project was premature. Before any single project attempts to push the development envelope, I think it's sensible for the community to have all its ducks in a row in terms of planning/zoning regs.

So are you advocating that development should stop until the re-zoning is complete?

[quente]

I am really waiting for you to give any idea or direction you'd like to see your neighborhood take because every post you've made is about the destruction of character and the threat of 2k foot Dubai skyscrapers taking over Federal Hill and the West End

I've touched on some of these but not in a comprehensive manner.

I think building height from the service road to roughly Dean Street should step down from 100 feet to 75 feet, with 0 lot lines along the street edges. The buildings are mixed use with mostly transparent groundfloors, underground parking, and services along a secondary or rear facade. The massing of the buildings would be stepped back after 4 or 5 stories. As far as building materials, no precast concrete. I'm not sure if HDC would review the projects in that area but I'd certainly welcome that process to allow for public input.

As for the rest of Broadway, perhaps some modest increases in density for some of the commercial uses within the National Register district (the old Tally's building would be a good candidate) but I think the street should maintain it's residential feeling with several nodes of neighborhood commercial.

[Cotuit]

But why is MetroLofts too dense?

[quente]

It's in a neighborhood that barely exists. What about the scale makes it so bad?

I'm not sure why you'd say it's in a neighborhood that barely exists. I think that area has been transitioning over the last 5 years or so from a heavy commercial use to a more mixed use as witnessed by the increased residential activity.

As for the scale, I don't know how else to say it - 16 stories in an area of 2 to 3 story buildings punctuated by an occasional 5 story building is simply out of scale. If 16 stories becomes the norm, the value of the underlying lots will increase dramatically, and serve as a catalyst to tear down properties that aren't being used to their potential. Proposing such an increase without providing a way to relieve such development pressure such as TDRs is a bad idea.

So are you advocating that development should stop until the re-zoning is complete?

It wouldn't be unheard of - the city issued a moratorium along Gano Street in 1998 when the Dunkin' Donuts store was proposed so that several zoning issues could be resolved. Quite frankly, I was surprised that the city got away with it legally. But that was when Buddy was around - issuing a moratorium on new construction is a political decision.

While you might be able to make a persuasive argument about the need for a moratorium during this process, I think it would be wiser to put a moratorium on granting variances.

But why is MetroLofts too dense?

Since you keep repeating the same question and obviously aren't satisfied with my answers, why don't you tell me why you think the MetroLofts aren't so dense or large-scale?

[Jerry2]

I'm not sure why you'd say it's in a neighborhood that barely exists. I think that area has been transitioning over the last 5 years or so from a heavy commercial use to a more mixed use as witnessed by the increased residential activity.

What increased residential activity are you talking about? The upper levels of the Subway block were redone and that was about it. Other than those 3/4 apartments, no other residential activity has been re-habbed or constructed in that entire area. It is a non-existent neighborhood. Your claims of "urban infiltration" are unjust and illogical. This project would have stood along the corridor of 95 and the service road. It would have bridged the gap betwen downtown and its western neighborhoods much like the Citizens headquaters and the Hemenway's building does for the East Side. There is nothing out of scope for a tall building to be constructed here...maybe not 600 feet as you exaggerated in your implications...but something that would have been tasteful and contributed to the area like this design.

[quente]

What increased residential activity are you talking about? The upper levels of the Subway block were redone and that was about it. Other than those 3/4 apartments, no other residential activity has been re-habbed or constructed in that entire area. It is a non-existent neighborhood. Your claims of "urban infiltration" are unjust and illogical. This project would have stood along the corridor of 95 and the service road. It would have bridged the gap betwen downtown and its western neighborhoods much like the Citizens headquaters and the Hemenway's building does for the East Side. There is nothing out of scope for a tall building to be constructed here...maybe not 600 feet as you exaggerated in your implications...but something that would have been tasteful and contributed to the area like this design.

You should come to Providence more often. Then perhaps you'd realize that there are more than 3 or 4 residential units.

Claims of "urban infiltration"?!? I never made such "unjust and illogical" claims because . . . that would be "unjust and illogical" - I live in a freakin' city!

As for the 600' limit, I was responding to Baines' previous post.

As to the 300" limit in the CBD - this is a great example of holding onto the past so as to restrict the future. The scale of the 1930s is not the same as today. A 600' limit is much more realistic for a city of Providence's size and density. Logically extending that to the area of the Service Roads, south of the CBD to the new Rt 195, and north along North Main Street; looking at 300' buildings is well within the apportionate movement out from the CBD core.

BTW - you asked and I gave you my ideas for the direction that I'd like to see my neighborhood take. Any comments?

Please read my posts more carefully if you're going to quote them back to me.

G'night!

[runawayjim]

me thinks we have the WBNA posting here...

anyways, in response to some of this, broadway is dead and desolate unless something is going on at the columbus theatre. broadway needs some good mixed use development. a street of its size should have more restaurants and retail. this project would have been on the edge of downtown along the highway. it would have helped bridge the gap (as has been said many times) and provided some moderately priced housing.

300' for the CBD was too short for the 1930's, the 1950's, and today. i don't know how that ever came to be. basically the current zoning laws don't allow us to recreate any neighborhood the way it was. what good is that?

i say we put 300' towers along the highway on broadway, atwells, westminster, etc. put new 600' towers on the lots in the financial district by textron.

it's sad that this project died and it's amazing how people can want providence to thrive but not see it grow at all.

[gregw]

2k foot Dubai skyscrapers taking over Federal Hill and the West End

[webbage]

me thinks we have the WBNA posting here...

anyways, in response to some of this, broadway is dead and desolate unless something is going on at the columbus theatre. broadway needs some good mixed use development.

Agreed.

[quente]

broadway is dead and desolate unless something is going on at the columbus theatre.

"Dead and desolate" . . . what? I guess people like Derek, Julian and Phil don't yet realize that they've located their thriving restaurant businesses in such a lousy location - you should tell them. Oh and don't forget to mention it to Jephry's . . . and LiRog's . . . and I guess you should break the news to my tenant who's had his law firm downstairs for the past 6 years. I'm sure they'd all appreciate it.

"The news of Broadway's death has been greatly exagerrated!"

broadway needs some good mixed use development.

By this I assume you're talking about more mixed use because we already have some. Within the neighborhood commericial nodes, I'd agree.

it's sad that this project died and it's amazing how people can want providence to thrive but not see it grow at all.

First Broadway is dying and now Providence is in danger of not thriving . . .

Regarding the rest of the points raised in your post, Broadway is not Atwells, which I thoroughly enjoy but would never want to buy a house on. The pattern and predominant use of the street is residential with nodes of neighborhood commercial.

Thanks for your concern but we're doing OK . . . really. In spite of the thick stench of death and desolation that hangs over our street, I think Broadway will manage. You can save your lifegiving 300' towers for Elmhurst.

[Liamlunchtray]

I'm bummed about this one. I think that tall buildings along the service road would bridge the gap across 95 and ease west side isolation. My main issue is that some of the designs just suck (like the atwells parcel). The metrolofts renderings were hip and clean and I think they would have meshed nicely. I certainly wouldnt approve of this scale further down westminster or broadway, but large scale developments along the highway which gradually step down as they move west would be great. 95 splits the city because we allow it to.