Branson/Springfield

[masons_dad1]

I mentioned some of this before but I'd like to talk more about public transportation again. Can you tell us a little more about the bus service and such in Springfield? Would you happen to have any numbers or routes? I'm curious to see how much of an area the bus service covers in Springfield.

I did some checking on Springfield's bus transportation system and it's pretty impressive... what impressed me most was that it's not paid by taxes. Instead, it's owned by the utility companies and the cost of the bus system is passed on to everyone's utility bills. slyder1 may be able to provide some numbers but their bus system does cover quite a large area.

[Mith242]

I did some checking on Springfield's bus transportation system and it's pretty impressive... what impressed me most was that it's not paid by taxes. Instead, it's owned by the utility companies and the cost of the bus system is passed on to everyone's utility bills. slyder1 may be able to provide some numbers but their bus system does cover quite a large area.

I don't think I've ever heard of anything like that before. It's a very interesting concept in the least, even if everyone doesn't agree with it. I'd certainly be interested in hearing more.

[tim2462]

I know all of this, I wasn't stating anything but the fact that one county from each of our MSA's were in the 03-04 100 fastest grwoing counties, as well as them being in many other years. The census nubers are done by percentage's and between 00'-04' Christian County was 18.4% and Benton County was 17.2%:

census facts

The only suburbs that are still rural are a good 15-20 miles from Springfield. Nixa, Ozark, and Republic are already sizable suburbs. The city counsel is conducting a pop. estimate done by the state for those cities and are predicted to be around 18,000 each, but of course we don't know yet (by 2010 are expected to be 20,000-25,000 each). Willard and Rogersville are not as large but are still steadily growing. Here is some in formation on the district 8 study for suburban growth (St. Louis, Memphis, Springfield, Fayetteville...) with Springfield's suburbs at #1. (scroll to bottom of page for map): Regional Economist

Kohls, Tj Max, Bass Pro, Marshall's, Hobby Lobby.... are all department stores.

Examples of department stores: Kohls, Marshall's, Dillard's, JC Penney, SAKS, Macy's.

Bass Pro, Hobby Lobby, Wal*Mart, and others you mentioned are retail stores, not department stores.

Christian County, MO grew 18.3% from '00 - '04...added 9,988 residents. '04 Pop. 64,000

Benton County, AR grew 17.2 % from '00 - '04....added 26,350 residents. '04Pop. 180,000

Nixa - Population (year 2000): 12,124, Est. population in July 2004: 14,617 +20.6%

Ozark - Population (year 2000): 9,665, Est. population in July 2004: 14,457 +49.6%

Republic - Population (year 2000): 8,438, Est. population in July 2004: 9,936 +17.8%

Those will not be 25,000 by 2010, and are not going to be 18,000 now...just not possible.

Ozark is growing the fastest. It added 5000 people in 4 years. To be 18,000 now, it would

have to have added 4,000 more in 1.5 years. Republic growing the least...It added 1,500 people

in 4 years, to be 18,000 now, they would've had to added 9,000 in 1.5 years, doubling its population.

See how rediculous it is to say they will be 18,000 now and 25,000 by 2010?! I doubt city leaders would

make such preposterous statements.

Willard - Population (year 2000): 3,193, Est. population in July 2004: 3,288 +3.0%

Rogersville - Population (year 2000): 1,508, Est. population in July 2004: 2,082 (+38.1%

NWA's small cities are growing at 75-150%

I know everybody concentrates on percentage, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Centerton in NWA is growing at 150%...Beontonville is growing at 40%.

Of course, Bentonville is adding a whole lot more people than Centerton.

So, why exactly is Springfield shrinking? Are people moving to the suburbs?

I'm sure a lot are moving to Northwest Arkansas.

[masons_dad1]

I don't think I've ever heard of anything like that before. It's a very interesting concept in the least, even if everyone doesn't agree with it. I'd certainly be interested in hearing more.

It's likely you'll never hear of anything like it again. Springfield's bus system is becoming too big for the utility companies coupled with the fact that they're going to lose millions of dollars of federal finding due to their population breaking 150,000. So now Springfield is considering a new tax increase to pay for the bus system, but the people don't want it. The people also don't want to pay more than they're already paying the utility companies to keep a bus system that they don't even use.

[Mith242]

It's likely you'll never hear of anything like it again. Springfield's bus system is becoming too big for the utility companies coupled with the fact that they're going to lose millions of dollars of federal finding due to their population breaking 150,000. So now Springfield is considering a new tax increase to pay for the bus system, but the people don't want it. The people also don't want to pay more than they're already paying the utility companies to keep a bus system that they don't even use.

I guess I can see problems forming as time went on and as things kept growing. Although I wonder if our current bus system we have in NWA is any better and could face serious problems when we hit the same mark that cuts off our federal funding as well.

[slyder1]

Examples of department stores: Kohls, Marshall's, Dillard's, JC Penney, SAKS, Macy's.

Bass Pro, Hobby Lobby, Wal*Mart, and others you mentioned are retail stores, not department stores.

Christian County, MO grew 18.3% from '00 - '04...added 9,988 residents. '04 Pop. 64,000

Benton County, AR grew 17.2 % from '00 - '04....added 26,350 residents. '04Pop. 180,000

Nixa - Population (year 2000): 12,124, Est. population in July 2004: 14,617 +20.6%

Ozark - Population (year 2000): 9,665, Est. population in July 2004: 14,457 +49.6%

Republic - Population (year 2000): 8,438, Est. population in July 2004: 9,936 +17.8%

Those will not be 25,000 by 2010, and are not going to be 18,000 now...just not possible.

Ozark is growing the fastest. It added 5000 people in 4 years. To be 18,000 now, it would

have to have added 4,000 more in 1.5 years. Republic growing the least...It added 1,500 people

in 4 years, to be 18,000 now, they would've had to added 9,000 in 1.5 years, doubling its population.

See how rediculous it is to say they will be 18,000 now and 25,000 by 2010?! I doubt city leaders would

make such preposterous statements.

Willard - Population (year 2000): 3,193, Est. population in July 2004: 3,288 +3.0%

Rogersville - Population (year 2000): 1,508, Est. population in July 2004: 2,082 (+38.1%

NWA's small cities are growing at 75-150%

I know everybody concentrates on percentage, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

Centerton in NWA is growing at 150%...Beontonville is growing at 40%.

Of course, Bentonville is adding a whole lot more people than Centerton.

NWA is growing at a higher percentage rate than Little Rock, but Little Rock MSA is adding a lot more people

than NWA number wise...just not percentage wise.

So, why exactly is Springfield shrinking? Are people moving to the suburbs?

I'm sure a lot are moving to Northwest Arkansas.

It's not so rediculous given the information, The Terrel Creek Development will be annexed into Republic, which is a 2,000 something housing development, and will add a couple thousand people once finished. Nixa and Ozark both are having many large and small subdivisions going up everywhere in and outside (for 10 years now) of the city limits, and are annexing alot of the large developments that are right outside of the city limits which will add a substancial amount of people to the cities. The local results will be taken at the end of the year and finished sometime next year, and like I said, the city counsel siad "around 18,000" so they of course don't know the amount but to their knowledge of all the annexing and developments, the number is not far from reach.

Like I posted in my last post, here is a websit link on how much the Springfield suburbs are growing compared to St. Louis, Memphis, Little Rock, Fayettevile: Regional Economist

This website show how much the suburbs around Springfield have been growing.

Departments Stores: 2 Dillard's, Famous Barr, Sears, Kohls, Marshalls, JC Penny's, and so on.......

Branson has TONS and TONS of shoppings outlets which many Springfieldians shop at as well.

[Mith242]

Like I posted in my last post, here is a websit link on how much the Springfield suburbs are growing compared to St. Louis, Memphis, Little Rock, Fayettevile: Regional Economist

This website show how much the suburbs around Springfield have been growing.

That article is interesting although I find it weird that NWA had 0% growth in sprawl. Although I certainly wouldn't mind that figure.

[tim2462]

Yeah, that article is obviously wacky...we know there is sprawl there. Little Rock's suburbs are growing very fast. Growing more in numbers than NWA suburbs and Springfield suburbs. You can check the numbers out. I won't post them in here and go off topic.

[Mith242]

Maybe it's using older numbers or maybe they just didn't have any info on the NWA metro. But I'm not a fan of sprawl anyway so I'd be more than happy with zero sprawl.

[slyder1]

Yeah, that article is obviously wacky...we know there is sprawl there. Little Rock's suburbs are growing very fast. Growing more in numbers than NWA suburbs and Springfield suburbs. Will edit and post numbers when I get them all together.

The article is obviously not wacky as it is from the St. Louis Federal Reseve! The info is compiled from census facts through the 1990-2001 years and we all know those have changed in recent years. I posted it to show just how much the Springfield MSA is has grown in the past.

[Mith242]

The article is obviously not wacky as it is from the St. Louis Federal Reseve! The info is compiled from census facts through the 1990-2001 years and we all know those have changed in recent years. I posted it to show just how much the Springfield MSA is has grown in the past.

Yeah it is from the St Louis Federal Reserve. But as I said before I certainly don't mind the zero sprawl. I also thought it was interesting with the mention of Pine Bluff which was spot on.

[tim2462]

From 1990-2001 is when NWA experienced major growth and annexation. It is also when I-540 was completed up through there and cities started sprawling west to the interstate and beyond...so, to say there is 0 sprawl there is wacky....whatever the source is.

[tim2462]

Slyder mentioned counties that could be added to Springfield's metro. There are also counties that have been talked about being added to Fayetteville's metro. I thought it would be interesting to compare the two metros as they are now, and as they COULD be IF these counties were added. We don't know if all of the counties listed will be added, and chances are the ones that are added won't all be added at once. The most interesting thing is that the two metros may join together and be contiguous. All of the following numbers are 2004 numbers.

Springfield MSA - 5 Counties - Pop. 390,986

Fayetteville MSA - 4 Counties - Pop. 390,881

Counties that COULD be added to Springfield's MSA:

Stone - 30,720

Taney - 41,939

Lawrence - 36,710

Dade - 7,829

That's an additonal 117,198 people, which would = 508,184

Counties that COULD be added to Fayetteville's MSA:

Carroll Co, AR - 26,555

Barry Co, MO - 35,314

Delaware Co, OK - 39,088

Adair Co, OK - 21,657

That's an additional 122,614 people, which would = 513,495

As far as current MSA's...with current special census counts being conducted...some finished...NWA's Population is now more than

400,000...which is officially larger than Springfield MSA.

[slyder1]

From 1990-2001 is when NWA experienced major growth and annexation. It is also when I-540 was completed up through there and cities started sprawling west to the interstate and beyond...so, to say there is 0 sprawl there is wacky....whatever the source is.

They were talking about the sprawl (growth) outside the cities, meaning the "suburbs." I don't think during that period of time NWA had a suburb status.

[slyder1]

Slyder mentioned counties that could be added to Springfield's metro. There are also counties that have been talked about being added to Fayetteville's metro. I thought it would be interesting to compare the two metros as they are now, and as they COULD be IF these counties were added. We don't know if all of the counties listed will be added, and chances are the ones that are added won't all be added at once. The most interesting thing is that the two metros may join together and be contiguous. All of the following numbers are 2004 numbers.

Springfield MSA - 5 Counties - Pop. 390,986

Fayetteville MSA - 4 Counties - Pop. 390,881

Counties that COULD be added to Springfield's MSA:

Stone - 30,720

Taney - 41,939

Lawrence - 36,710

Dade - 7,829

That's an additonal 117,198 people, which would = 508,184

Counties that COULD be added to Fayetteville's MSA:

Carroll Co, AR - 26,555

Barry Co, MO - 35,314

Delaware Co, OK - 39,088

Adair Co, OK - 21,657

That's an additional 122,614 people, which would = 513,495

As far as current MSA's...with current special census counts being conducted...some finished...NWA's Population is now more than

400,000...which is officially larger than Springfield MSA.

Yeah, good observation. I really think after 20 years or so the Springfield and Fayetteville area's will become one like Washington DC-Baltimore area. Did you know that MSU is conducting a study for a highway corridor straight from Springfield to NWA, although I'm sure it would be a while before we even see that happening. The Springfield MSA is considered by many (city counsel, area mag's, Springfield reps) to be over the 400,000 mark as well. Although its not official I think its safe to say with the growth in NWA and Springfield MSA both area's are over 400,000 people. I noticed you said that Barry county would maybe be a considered county to add the NWA MSA, last year Missouri State Officials talked about the county being added in the future. Although I would think that it might be a swing county that could be counted for both MSA's but we will have to wait and see.

[slyder1]

Does Fayetteville or NWA have a ZOO?

[tim2462]

Yeah, good observation. I really think after 20 years or so the Springfield and Fayetteville area's will become one like Washington DC-Baltimore area. Did you know that MSU is conducting a study for a highway corridor straight from Springfield to NWA, although I'm sure it would be a while before we even see that happening. The Springfield MSA is considered by many (city counsel, area mag's, Springfield reps) to be over the 400,000 mark as well. Although its not official I think its safe to say with the growth in NWA and Springfield MSA both area's are over 400,000 people. I noticed you said that Barry county would maybe be a considered county to add the NWA MSA, last year Missouri State Officials talked about the county being added in the future. Although I would think that it might be a swing county that could be counted for both MSA's but we will have to wait and see.

I had not heard about a highway between the two. That would most certainly join them together. Development would fill in all along the corridor. Barry County is certainly a swing county. I think that

it may go to NWA because the cities in Barry County are in the southern portion of the county. They are closer and more accessible to Benton County, than Greene County. But like you said, could go either way.

Fayetteville has no zoo...the only zoo in AR is in LR.

[skirby]

I did some checking on Springfield's bus transportation system and it's pretty impressive... what impressed me most was that it's not paid by taxes. Instead, it's owned by the utility companies and the cost of the bus system is passed on to everyone's utility bills. slyder1 may be able to provide some numbers but their bus system does cover quite a large area.

At one time utility companies ran transit systems. The trolleys in New Orleans were operated by New Orleans Public Service Inc which was owned by Middle South Utilities, which became Entergy. The transit system in Springfield was owned by Cities Service Co.(Citgo). The streetcars were discontinued in 1937. Transit operations sold off in 1945. Cities Service Co. also owned Central Arkansas Public Service Co. of Hot Springs. Utlilties bought streetcar companies because they could supply them with power.

[masons_dad1]

At one time utility companies ran transit systems. The trolleys in New Orleans were operated by New Orleans Public Service Inc which was owned by Middle South Utilities, which became Entergy. The transit system in Springfield was owned by Cities Service Co.(Citgo). The streetcars were discontinued in 1937. Transit operations sold off in 1945. Cities Service Co. also owned Central Arkansas Public Service Co. of Hot Springs. Utlilties bought streetcar companies because they could supply them with power.

Thanks for the info skirby. I'm not too sure that system would fly today since most people don't want to pay for something they don't use. Sales tax is unavoidable, but I can't see Northwest Arkansas raising sales tax more to pay for public transportation.

[masons_dad1]

Does Fayetteville or NWA have a ZOO?

We don't have an actual ZOO. What we do have is Wild Wilderness Drive-Thru Safari in Gentry, which is a wild animal preserve that you drive through to view quite a diversity of animals like giraffes, tigers, bears, a rhino, camels, zebra... you get the picture. We also have Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge in Eureka Springs, which is a refuge for over a hundred big cats such as tigers, leapords, jaguars... you get the picture.

There was talk of possibly building an aquarium in Fayetteville but mayor Coody said Fayetteville couldn't support an aquarium. What does he know?

[Mith242]

We don't have an actual ZOO. What we do have is Wild Wilderness Drive-Thru Safari in Gentry, which is a wild animal preserve that you drive through to view quite a diversity of animals like giraffes, tigers, bears, a rhino, camels, zebra... you get the picture. We also have Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge in Eureka Springs, which is a refuge for over a hundred big cats such as tigers, leapords, jaguars... you get the picture.

There was talk of possibly building an aquarium in Fayetteville but mayor Coody said Fayetteville couldn't support an aquarium. What does he know?

Yeah I'm still hoping we can get something like that going in the near future. One just south of the Walton Arts Center on West would be a great location.

Lots of interesting info guys keep up the good works.

[slyder1]

We don't have an actual ZOO. What we do have is Wild Wilderness Drive-Thru Safari in Gentry, which is a wild animal preserve that you drive through to view quite a diversity of animals like giraffes, tigers, bears, a rhino, camels, zebra... you get the picture. We also have Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge in Eureka Springs, which is a refuge for over a hundred big cats such as tigers, leapords, jaguars... you get the picture.

There was talk of possibly building an aquarium in Fayetteville but mayor Coody said Fayetteville couldn't support an aquarium. What does he know?

That sounds great. Springfield is lucky enough to have the Dickerson Park Zoo and Exotic Animal Paradise (America's Largest drive-thru wild animal park). I actually have a friend that works at Dickerson Park Zoo and is always talking about all the compliments they get. I personnaly have not been there in quite some time but now that were talking about it I want to see all the new exibits. Springfield also boots the American National Fish and Wildlife Zooquarium called Wonders of Wildlife on the Campus of Bass Pro Shops. This Aquarium and Museum houses anything from sharks to venemus snakes, it is also affiliated with the Smithsonian Institute.

If any of you ever comes to visit you should definately check out Wonders of Wildlife or the Zoo.

[slyder1]

Here are some photos of the Wonders of Wildlife

Entrance to Wonders of Wildlife

[slyder1]

I did some checking on Springfield's bus transportation system and it's pretty impressive... what impressed me most was that it's not paid by taxes. Instead, it's owned by the utility companies and the cost of the bus system is passed on to everyone's utility bills. slyder1 may be able to provide some numbers but their bus system does cover quite a large area.

I'm not to educated on the bus system but yes, it does cover alot of area and the city is planning more routes to the edge of Nixa and Ozark so people from those cities can access Springfield from their bus system. The City Counsel already has plans to build a new bus station that is quite impressive in downtown. In the 70's and 80's downtown Springfield used a trolley system to lure people downtown but in the late 80's it went away, but with all the developments the Trolley's are back and running again in dowmtown Springfield and they looke great!

The city is also planning a Light Rail system on some of the un-used train tracks around the Springfeild, Nixa, Ozark area's. I'm not sure when they will start but it sounds pretty impressive.

[masons_dad1]

That sounds great. Springfield is lucky enough to have the Dickerson Park Zoo and Exotic Animal Paradise (America's Largest drive-thru wild animal park). I actually have a friend that works at Dickerson Park Zoo and is always talking about all the compliments they get. I personnaly have not been there in quite some time but now that were talking about it I want to see all the new exibits. Springfield also boots the American National Fish and Wildlife Zooquarium called Wonders of Wildlife on the Campus of Bass Pro Shops. This Aquarium and Museum houses anything from sharks to venemus snakes, it is also affiliated with the Smithsonian Institute.

If any of you ever comes to visit you should definately check out Wonders of Wildlife or the Zoo.

Thanks for the links! Those are great attractions and not so much the amateurish "zoos" we have here. I can't believe there are still no plans for anything like that here.

Northwest Arkansas may be a great place to do business and a great place to listen to live music down on Dickson Street but it's still in the stone age when it comes to "family-oriented" leisure and attractions. You figure with an estimated population equal to Springfield there would be more for the kids and families here.

I guess I'll just have to settle for taking my son to one of the many little parks here so he can crawl around on some cheap little broken down playground equipment until something better comes along. I just hope he'll still be a kid when and if it happens.