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Why planning/development is so bad in Raleigh

sax184

By sax184
in The NC Triangle

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burt Megalopolis

burt

Posted
Posted
Not sure if this is off topic but I'll try to help.....they have been the GC on several large projects here , such as The Quorum Center, buildings at NC State, West Village in Durham, rehabbing the governors mansion....without having access to change order/budget and schedule info they appear to be a top notch contractor capable of building something 30 stories tall.

Here is their projects webpage.

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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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The Indy has a new article on teardowns this week.

With the first plan officially off the table, the debate has turned to what Silver, in his memo, termed "Option 2" and "Option 3." Option 2 would require anyone demolishing a house in order to build a substantially bigger one-or putting a large addition on a home-to receive approval from the City Planning Commission. Option 3 would reduce the number of steps required to adopt a Neighborhood Conservation Overlay District, a custom zoning code that a neighborhood, with the consent of the majority of property owners, can impose on itself. Community SCALE members prefer Option 2, but suggest both options could be used. Several of Meeker's council allies agree. Meeker and Silver, though, say Option 3 is sufficient, and that it's unnecessary to consider Option 2, even as a stopgap measure until neighborhood plans are in place.

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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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The council's comp planning committee rejected option 2 for teardowns, and will move towards the overlay districts plan and forming an infill study group.

Now this week, there is news of a new communtiy group opposing SCALE (who favored limiting teardowns), called ReNew Raleigh. They are arguing to protect the maximum extent of property right in the affected areas.

"We all have property rights, and I shouldn't have somebody in some other neighborhood telling me what I can do with my property," said Philip Miller, a Raleigh lawyer and member of Renew Raleigh.

I sympathize with these folks, but they also need to be reminded they live deep within a city, and there are certain rules and regulations that go along with that which already limit what they can do with their property.

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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What Renew folks forget is that their rights end as soon as they have infringed on someone elses more basic right. This is glaring and obvious when you zone in a way that won't allow a big factory next to a cul-de-sac laden neighborhood. But its trickier when you compare my right to sunlight vs. your right to a 50' high house. Often these same Renew people would have restrictive covenants limiting the color of their neighborhood's homes or require that grass be green even in a drought. I still have a wonderful solution....teardown permit comes with the stipulation that all c/d waste up til CO time must be disposed of at the County landfill and with a particular rate that applies to waste disposed of under this permit. Therefore you either can move the house, donate its pieces to Habitat or pay 2-3(or 5!) times normal to trash it. Your deep pockets will not enable you to be more wasteful easily.

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sax184 Hamlet

sax184

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I love it! More astroturf from the Raleigh development community. These people feel so strongly about standing up for property rights and what's right in the community, that they won't even tell us who they are!

Run a WHOIS search on the renewraleigh.org domain and you get the following:

Domain Name:RENEWRALEIGH.ORG

Created On:23-Dec-2007 21:19:59 UTC

Last Updated On:18-Jan-2008 19:00:04 UTC

Expiration Date:23-Dec-2008 21:19:59 UTC

Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)

Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED

Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED

Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED

Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED

Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED

Registrant ID:GODA-041369443

Registrant Name:Registration Private

Registrant Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.

Registrant Street1:DomainsByProxy.com

Registrant Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353

Registrant Street3:

Registrant City:Scottsdale

Registrant State/Province:Arizona

Registrant Postal Code:85260

Registrant Country:US

Registrant Phone:+1.4806242599

Registrant Phone Ext.:

Registrant FAX:+1.4806242599

Registrant FAX Ext.:

Registrant Email:[email protected]

Admin ID:GODA-241369443

Admin Name:Registration Private

Admin Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.

Admin Street1:DomainsByProxy.com

Admin Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353

Admin Street3:

Admin City:Scottsdale

Admin State/Province:Arizona

Admin Postal Code:85260

Admin Country:US

Admin Phone:+1.4806242599

Admin Phone Ext.:

Admin FAX:+1.4806242599

Admin FAX Ext.:

Admin Email:[email protected]

Tech ID:GODA-141369443

Tech Name:Registration Private

Tech Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.

Tech Street1:DomainsByProxy.com

Tech Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353

Tech Street3:

Tech City:Scottsdale

Tech State/Province:Arizona

Tech Postal Code:85260

Tech Country:US

Tech Phone:+1.4806242599

Tech Phone Ext.:

Tech FAX:+1.4806242599

Tech FAX Ext.:

Tech Email:[email protected]

Name Server:NS1.EPICENTERONE.COM

Name Server:NS2.EPICENTERONE.COM

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

Name Server:

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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How exactly is anything renew raleigh supports building a "stronger neighborhod"? :

- putting up larger homes discourage connections to the rest of the neighborhood by building solid walls as close to the lot lines as allowed.

- reducing the number of neighbors by replacing smaller homes with fewer large ones

- pricing out the existing neighborhood, obliterating any chance of maintaining a link to the neighborhood's past

Because in their view, stronger = more valuable to some outsider who wants a large house in an established neighborhood who doesn't care about *who* established the neighborhood and *how* they established it.

The "neighbors" that support this are the ones who gain by being paid to do the tear downs and rebuilds. Or the newcomers who have more money than ties to the area. They don't see their neighbors, they see their neighbors' lots and fantasize about how much money they could "earn" by tearing down a one-story ranch and replacing it with a McMansion like the one they just moved into. And then turn around and bully the long time residnets by telling them they should have bought all the houses around them if they didn't want to live next to their temples of greed. To acheive their goals, they ignore the strong neighborhood already in place, one that didn't need a restrictive covenant in writing to determine how to be a good neighbor.

I wonder how long it will take Jesse T. and Tommy Craven to join, if they haven't already and/or are behind it.

Since New Raleigh just wants to rant and not do actual research, I did. The site's "about us" page claims it was started by Philip Miller. From a Google search, it looks like it is the Phil Miller profiled here. I wonder which of the two addresses listed have a "ReNew Raleigh" sign out front. I remember a house that was under construction on Lake Boone near the Chase Court address went up in flames right before it was sold, and I don't think they ever found out what happened.

For over 24 years, Phil Miller Construction has created unique homes appealing to the needs and tastes of the Triangle's more discriminating residents. The company's commitment to building splendid homes with steadfast attention to quality and detail has contributed to its position as a premier home-building company in North Carolina and to its honor as a consistent award winner in the prestigious Parade of Homes, winning the Gold Award in the "Most Expensive Home" category in 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2001, and 2002.
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abelincoln4321 Crossroads

abelincoln4321

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Since there is a flurry of activity looking into the agenda & background of the folks organizing Renew Raleigh, why not look at some of the others in the mix and who might benefit from additional regulations?

Check out the ownership and property history on Wake County Real Estate ID 0003969. (There are others examples out there, also) Do a little digging.

Purchased: 10/3/05 for $210K. MLS #799274 shows Square Footage at 1390

Sold: 7/25/06 for $405K. MLS# 855685 shows Square Footage at 2550

Excellent house, very nice addition (>25% of square footage by the way). Hopefully it was very profitable for the one who had the vision, took the risk to purchase and created new value.

No one on either side of the issue will complain about the house itself. It's a nice example of what can be done to a home worth saving. Yet it shows specifically who might be motivated to make projects like this more difficult and expensive for others without the knowledge and expertise as this design/build team.

Don't be so alarmist to think that rule changes will completely shut down redevelopment. They won't. There will be a process to go through to get approval, variances to be had, etc. These changes will take additional time, expertise, calculations and drawings/plans which will translate into more expense for the average builder and property owner.

Stock plans for a new home or an engineer's drawings for a home addition won't suffice. You'll have to hire an architect and maybe a lawyer to help you make it through the gauntlet. You'll get your project done, but the folks who will now be a required part of the process will get paid and will thank you.

This will also reduce the competition for these projects in the future for those who can participate in the flips without the additional expense or red tape.

Everyone always complains about real estate agent commissions, but have you hired an architect lately? You have to look really hard at who might benefit from the proposed regulations.

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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

Posted
Posted
Since there is a flurry of activity looking into the agenda & background of the folks organizing Renew Raleigh, why not look at some of the others in the mix and who might benefit from additional regulations?

Check out the ownership and property history on Wake County Real Estate ID 0003969. (There are others examples out there, also) Do a little digging.

Purchased: 10/3/05 for $210K. MLS #799274 shows Square Footage at 1390

Sold: 7/25/06 for $405K. MLS# 855685 shows Square Footage at 2550

Excellent house, very nice addition (>25% of square footage by the way). Hopefully it was very profitable for the one who had the vision, took the risk to purchase and created new value.

No one on either side of the issue will complain about the house itself. It's a nice example of what can be done to a home worth saving. Yet it shows specifically who might be motivated to make projects like this more difficult and expensive for others without the knowledge and expertise as this design/build team.

Don't be so alarmist to think that rule changes will completely shut down redevelopment. They won't. There will be a process to go through to get approval, variances to be had, etc. These changes will take additional time, expertise, calculations and drawings/plans which will translate into more expense for the average builder and property owner.

Stock plans for a new home or an engineer's drawings for a home addition won't suffice. You'll have to hire an architect and maybe a lawyer to help you make it through the gauntlet. You'll get your project done, but the folks who will now be a required part of the process will get paid and will thank you.

This will also reduce the competition for these projects in the future for those who can participate in the flips without the additional expense or red tape.

Everyone always complains about real estate agent commissions, but have you hired an architect lately? You have to look really hard at who might benefit from the proposed regulations.

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Beth Y Unincorporated Area

Beth Y

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A quick search on the Wake Real Estate site shows that Abe Lincoln's insinuation is that architects (like Russ Stephenson, who once owned and, I guess, did some upfit on a house in Mordecai and sold it for more) engineers and lawyers will be the only people who can afford to make money off remodeling or building new infill houses under any new restrictions.

That is a ridiculous argument. But so is the opposite sides argument that "all developers are evil and keep building terrible houses if we don't stop them soon!"

Why does everyone on both sides of this debate always go to the silliest most extreme example to make their point. It is hard to take either side seriously when doing so.

There are a lot of builders who are building big, fancy houses in older neighborhoods and making sure that they keep trees, keep the new house, even though much larger, still in context with the neighorhood, etc. But we all know they are not the ones that concern us. I know that many cities have dealt with this before and there are other cities that have come up with reasonable restrictions or whatever you want to call them, to make sure that, at least, some thought is given to construction on infill lots. I do think that people on both sides need to stop being reactionary and start looking at what level/type of rules have been effective in other cities and look at whether they could work in Raleigh. Both sides are spending too much time pointing at the extreme examples (all new construction stinks/only architects can flip lots...both ridiculous arguments) and, if we don't start looking at other cities for examples of solutions that work, for both sides, we are giong to still be having this argument five years from now.

Come on people, stop posturing and start thinking.

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dmccall Burg

dmccall

Posted
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Phillip Miller is a lawyer and a member of the law firm that beautifully restored the house at Hillsborough St and Morgan St.

I rode around a lot this weekend and saw a TON of the Renew Raleigh signs; most were not in builders' or real estate agents' yards and all were erected by the consent of the property owners. For a "manufactured" grass roots campaign, there sure are a LOT of supporters out there who aren't a part of the system.

I agree with BethY. Digging up personal info about people antagonizing a proposed city law isn't what will find a balance. Pulling up yard signs and scoffing at those with them doesn't do it either (where was this logic when Neil Coker's opponents waged a yard sign campaign?)

There are holes in Renew Raleigh's arguments, but it seems like the rebuttals I've seen so far are pretty weak.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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Posted

This is a perfect example of why planning and developement are so bad in Raleigh.

We had an election last November, and the pro-development lobby lost. Yet they still contend that they should set policy for building in the city. There are plenty of neighborhoods where big houses are not out of place, but that isn't enough. No. Under the "Renew" banner, all land is in play if you have enough money, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It is a perverted belife of "evolution by prospertiy" to rewrite everything to suit their needs and anyone else who doesn't have the money they do should be denied a seat at the discussion table.

It is group of people who feel their needs outweighs their neighbors under the banner of "property rights". To deny your neighbors daylight by building as tall as possible as close to the property line as possible does in fact cross a line that should not have to be a law. If that is a "weak" arugment and the spoiled brats' "it's my land, I'll do what I want" is a "strong" one, why should we talk about anything, ever?

Lawyers who have the time and money to find loopholes to build palaces for their egos *cough* Soleil Center *cough* are a significant cog in the machinery that is big development.

I'll quote myself:

I wonder which of the two addresses listed have a "ReNew Raleigh" sign out front.
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sax184 Hamlet

sax184

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People who own domains have to do this these days or they get spammed, harassed, and even stalked. We have experienced much of this and you may note that UrbanPlanet has the same kind of registration now. I am not defending this group, but it if you have a point to make against them, this isn't one.
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ChiefJoJo Town

ChiefJoJo

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I stopped in last night briefly to check out the hearing... there were some pissed off people on the pro-property rights side, but also plenty of speakers on the pro-preservation side as well. Phillip Miller was there from ReNew Raleigh... I didn't think his arguments were particularly compelling, although I give him points for not making an emotional plea, unlike another man who basically went on a rant saying he was planning to vote off the whole council ASAP (got a few cheers for that). Teardowns/SF infill are definitely a devisive, difficult issue, but I think the opposition is probably disproportionately consituted by homebuilders (although I have noticed plenty of reNew Raleigh signs up ITB). I have a hard time believing that making the NCOD process (conservation overlay) more streamlined will destroy people's retirement and property values, as some ReNew-ers have claimed.

I think this man said it best when he spoke of the need to renew the city, but only in areas that need it or are appropriate:

"I do believe that while we need to renew Raleigh, we need to renew Raleigh with respect," said Paul Brant, chairman of Northeast Citizens Advisory Council.

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breynold81 Crossroads

breynold81

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Someone ripped all of the Renew Raleigh signs out of the yards on Beechridge Road Tuesday night after city council. This just solidifies my opinion of how ridiculous these SCALE people have become. I spend a lot of my free time working for 2 inner city nonprofits - perhaps these people should consider doing the same thing with their free time instead of wasting my time fighting to keep my property rights. Seriously, ridiculous.

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