Hot Spots

[Tayfromcarolina]

In the coming decade or so, what areas do you see as being hubs as far as Retail, Residential and Business (corporate and entrepreneuship) in Wake County and the triangle at large?

Based on current trends and investor activity dollars being spent. What areas aren't to concentrated already with business and have lot's of room to grow; But at the same time aren't dead zones in the triangle. Certain Areas such as North Hills, Cary, Brier Creek, Southpointe, Wake Forest have been very busy for a while with a flurry of activity. But was areas do you expect to really take off in the next few years.

I think that North east Raleigh to Knightdale 540 to highway 64 and the stretch of Western Wake county near the 540 extension to highway 55 will be the next to really blow up. 540 is the main reason and availability of and untapped audience.

[Justin6882]

Ahh, I didn't read before I voted. Downtown Raleigh is already a hub for business, and I think retail and residential will definitely explode over the next few years. However, I think North Hills & Crabtree will also contiune expansion. I can't see Brier Creek being anything more than a shopping center.

[Transplant]

I agree w/ Justin. I live near Brier creek. Bought my house just before the shopping area got built, and have been there 100s of times..... The area is a complete let down. As a city focus area, it has failed. The only upside is that the shopping area could be reinvented as a urban center. I thought the developer would have put housing above retail from the get-go. I was wrong.

I thought the 'Village Center' would resemble a Village.... but from the plans I've seen in the Triangle Business Journal, it's anything but a village. More like a traditional subdivision, but with 4 or 5 of them jammed together.

I was hoping BC village center would end up looking like Five points in Raleigh.

[Jones_]

I agree w/ Justin. I live near Brier creek. Bought my house just before the shopping area got built, and have been there 100s of times..... The area is a complete let down. As a city focus area, it has failed. The only upside is that the shopping area could be reinvented as a urban center. I thought the developer would have put housing above retail from the get-go. I was wrong.

I thought the 'Village Center' would resemble a Village.... but from the plans I've seen in the Triangle Business Journal, it's anything but a village. More like a traditional subdivision, but with 4 or 5 of them jammed together.

I was hoping BC village center would end up looking like Five points in Raleigh.

I stuck this in another thread but it seemed mroe appropriate here.

How did Brier Creek become one of the three city focus areas? (or regional centers...whatever they are called). It is a typical suburban landscape with basic apartments, golf course with multi-million dollar homes, and strip shopping centers at the mouth of the development. It has no real mass (such as a mall), certainly no real urban form, only recently became connected to the CAT bus network, etc. etc. Granted it is all upper scale versions of the typical.....can anyone every actually see skyscrapers out there like the plan calls for? Where would they go without NIMBYs howling? Thats been on my mind every since I saw the comprehensive plan map with the desigination.

[Transplant]

I stuck this in another thread but it seemed mroe appropriate here.

How did Brier Creek become one of the three city focus areas? (or regional centers...whatever they are called). It is a typical suburban landscape with basic apartments, golf course with multi-million dollar homes, and strip shopping centers at the mouth of the development. It has no real mass (such as a mall), certainly no real urban form, only recently became connected to the CAT bus network, etc. etc. Granted it is all upper scale versions of the typical.....can anyone every actually see skyscrapers out there like the plan calls for? Where would they go without NIMBYs howling? Thats been on my mind every since I saw the comprehensive plan map with the desigination.

My guess is that the 'leaders' had some conversation, 'hey, we should put in high density development. How about North Hills. Nah, thats just a mall area and its all it will ever be. Crabtree? same issue. Hey, those areas up by I540 are going to be built soon. Maybe if we make up this neat designation, high density will magically appear.'

The city had a chance by making their own plan and working with a developer. At least I assume they had a chance, but I think the leaders are reactive, not proactive, on just about every issue. Think about how now, after years and years, theres talk about raising the impact fee. That thing should be automatically adjusted every year.

As far as a skyscrapper in BC. I frankly think it would be hilarious. Kinda like the pickly in durham

[ChiefJoJo]

BC as a city focus is foolish. I remember thinking that during the Soilel Tower debate on the comprehensive plan. Geez, that whole area is a sprawling mess. It seems to go on and on forever... it almost does if you cross US 70 and go over to ACC Blvd past the Wal Mart. There are a ton of new apartments and condos being built over there, and people are apparently buying them up like hotcakes. I went to a SuperBowl party out there on Sunday, and that whole area blew me away. Oh, and there's more on the way. Can anyone in tell me with a straight face that they think high-rises should be built out there?

[NCMike1981]

As long as one skyscraper isn't built then Raleigh suddenly puts in a crazy height limit immediately afterwards banning buildings taller then 5 stories tall in all areas but downtown I think it might be "interesting" to see one out there in 20-30 years lol. I keep repeating this but the reason why University Tower looks so out of place is that the city put in height limitations within a year or two of that tower being built, effectively preventing anything taller then 5ish floors to ever be built around it. That is why 20 years later it's still a tall tower rising above shopping centers and lowrise office buildings. If there were no height limitations in place the area around the tower would probably have a few midrises around it by now, and wouldn't look so "pickly" lol. Can't forget about the Wachovia building in Erwin Square near Ninth Street that was also built around the same time as University Tower. For over a decade after it was built it was a midrise office tower in a field. I think that there were originally plans for clusters of towers by both University Tower and Erwin Square but I believe the plans may have stalled or were taking a little longer then expected, then height limitations were implemented to "protect downtown" which killed the possibilities of the other towers ever possibly materializing.

The point is I think the Brier Creek area could possibly handle a few taller buildings in a few decades because of it's central location, but it will take alot of density for it to really look good...

[bdp]

i think downtown will really surprise everybody with how fast things come together with in the next 5 years, and I also think Midtown from North Hills stretching to Crabtree will really boom. As for the suburbs, it seems like they are starting to embrace creating/reviving their own downtowns as well. Maybe they will start to have some identity of their own, and not just be carbon copies of one another... as for Brier Creek, I have not been there in over a year, but I kind of see it as just being a mess... kind of Crossroadsesque. I also think downtown Durham will have turned a major corner and be a favorite destination of people from all over the triangle area.

[MR-2]

Chapel Hill/Carrboro will get a lot of good stuff in the near future.

[ncwebguy]

What areas will boom will depend on if the TTA rail is built. If that happens, then the whole rail corridor will be on steroids for 5-10 years if not more in the areas people can walk to a train stop. If not, then the "who wants to live by the tracks" mentality will continue. Downtown Durham would benefit the most from the rail... I'd take it to bulls games and arts performances a couple of times a month if they run it late enough, which I can see happening. Durham residents could go to the downtown raleigh museums, Raleigh Memorial performances, etc. without the monotonus Durham freeway and I-40 haul.

I think Brier Creek is "done" for a while retail and residential wise, and will start stockpiling office buildings between the shopping center and 540. 10-12 story buildings wouldn't look any more out of place there than the highwoods buildings do along 440 between atlantic and capitol. But so far, it looks like 4-5 stories, at least closest to Glenwood. I was hoping for an "urban village" with apartments over retail in Brierdale, but that isn't happening, just smaller chain botiques squeezed closer together, a prefab'd Cameron Village with no history.

Garner is filling the gap between the Johnston county suburbers and the rest of the triangle. It could ask "why go further when you can have what you need right here?" for communities on the 40 and 70 corridors all the way to I-95 if it plays its cards right. Getting eastrans would be nice too, and a revamped TTA including that and the north raleigh/wake forest routes would form a strong mass transit backbone.

[jumboman]

I would say the interest in North Hills in the next couple of years will increase dramatically, but there is a limited space that North Hills can expand past their plans right now due to all the neighborhoods that run right up next to it. So there isnt any real possibility for this to become a "city hub" any more than it is now (or planned), although the hotel and the east expansion will be pretty cool.

What about the area around the RBC Center and Carter-Finley Stadium? The city has been promising us for years that high density development will happen here, and as far as I know, there havent even been any plans. I cant see anything happening here for another 10 years though.

[DanRNC]

You would have to add downtown Durham to that list. The private development investment currently in downtown is around $500 million (the 3 major projects currently underway-Triangle Biotech Center, ATHD, and West Village II). This number does not include Diamondview II, the new Heritage Square project, Parrish St. project, etc. I would imagine these developments are going to spur additional investments.

[bdp]

yeah, durham is perpetually getting the shaft on this board. i think it just happens that most of us live in raleigh. i see alot of potential in durham as well...

[danclever]

yeah, durham is perpetually getting the shaft on this board. i think it just happens that most of us live in raleigh. i see alot of potential in durham as well...

Judging by what has being going on in downtown Durham, and some of the comments here on UP, I would dare say that it would have scored second or third place on the poll.

[JDC]

I agree with the last three. And the plans for Parrish St. and the old Woolworth site look great (not to mention what's to come from all the other construction downtown).

Plus it's a real city - not a mixed-use shopping center like North Hills.

[avery]

The only areas I can see as becoming a true urban center are maybe the North Hills and Crabtree areas. The other areas won't become what I consider "urban." Downtown Raleigh and Durham already are urban, but I think this where we will see the majority of this type of growth since the TTA is on red.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I think a area that has a large potential growth and could be considered DT is the area on Capital BLVD between the beltline and Wake Forest Road and included the area between Atlantic and Capital. If you can't picture this, think Old Farmers market, old Pedan Steel plant and Foxy Lady area.

If TTA were to ever happen and grow, this area would be where the rails cross and would make a great place for tight urban land use and the many of the structures are ready on both sides of the roads and even in the middle where the small hotels are. I would hate to see an institution like the FL go, but maybe for progress. There could even be a TTA stop at the crossroads/rail yard (you can see it when you are on the Atlantic Ave Bridge) and maybe a stop even down hear the old Farmers market. There is also a great Greenway at the intersection near the old Hardees.

I just think this area is primed to be redeveloped, especially with the large parking lots at some of these locations.

[Transplant]

I think a area that has a large potential growth and could be considered DT is the area on Capital BLVD between the beltline and Wake Forest Road and included the area between Atlantic and Capital. If you can't picture this, think Old Farmers market, old Pedan Steel plant and Foxy Lady area.

I was surprised that the TTA didn't include a station in this area to start. I think they are missing out by not including something in this area in the (new) Phase I plan.

[MR-2]

Why isn't downtown Durham on the list? You'd think that would be important.

[bdp]

^

[Transplant]

Why isn't downtown Durham on the list? You'd think that would be important.

? I'm confused. Aren't there 3 Stations planned for Downtown Durham?

[MR-2]

? I'm confused. Aren't there 3 Stations planned for Downtown Durham?

Read the list of 'hot spots' at the top. Southpoint in Durham is mentioned, but downtown Durham isn't.

One would think with the unfolding revitalization projects there, it would be a so called 'hot spot'.

[Transplant]

Read the list of 'hot spots' at the top. Southpoint in Durham is mentioned, but downtown Durham isn't.

One would think with the unfolding revitalization projects there, it would be a so called 'hot spot'.

Gotcha. DT Durham is definetly a Hot Spot. Since I've moved here, I thought the Ballpark and available space made it ripe for development. I was happy when American Tobacco started with the renovation. My only disappointment so far is that there is no street level retail in the warehouse across from the DBAP.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I was surprised that the TTA didn't include a station in this area to start. I think they are missing out by not including something in this area in the (new) Phase I plan.

A couple of reasons. Phase 1 ends in DT due to costs. Anything past DT is now Phase 2 When Phase 1 included North Raleigh, the decision was to be made between a stop on Whitaker Mill track crossing right at Atlantic near Snoopy's or a stop at Highwoods. Highwood's won since that is where the workforce is. They could not do both, especially with no growth in the area of the Pedan Steel Plant/Whitaker Mill Rd. If they were to go one more stop from DT, Highwoods would be the next logical stop.

As far as any other stop near this area, the rail is on a different rail corridor than TTA, near the crisscross so that could not be done. To include this, TTA would have to have the 2nd line/corridor that crisscrosses.

I have seen a possible other stop which would be north of Seaboard that would feed all the houses behind Peace (old Halifax Court) and would also serve Mordicai, but that was on Developer drawings and nothing from TTA.

[Transplant]

A couple of reasons. Phase 1 ends in DT due to costs. Anything past DT is now Phase 2 When Phase 1 included North Raleigh, the decision was to be made between a stop on Whitaker Mill track crossing right at Atlantic near Snoopy's or a stop at Highwoods. Highwood's won since that is where the workforce is. They could not do both, especially with no growth in the area of the Pedan Steel Plant/Whitaker Mill Rd. If they were to go one more stop from DT, Highwoods would be the next logical stop.

As far as any other stop near this area, the rail is on a different rail corridor than TTA, near the crisscross so that could not be done. To include this, TTA would have to have the 2nd line/corridor that crisscrosses.

I have seen a possible other stop which would be north of Seaboard that would feed all the houses behind Peace (old Halifax Court) and would also serve Mordicai, but that was on Developer drawings and nothing from TTA.

I think there would be much more development opportunity around a rail station at the corner of Six forks/Atlantic than at the Phase 2 station near, Durant Rd. Lots of open land, easy access to the Highway. I understand that this is close to Highwoods station, but it the rail should include areas where development can easily occur, IMO.