Has anybody seen this?

[NewTowner]

I appreciate the kind words...and would be more than happy to write anything you want!

But speaking of wordsmiths...below is a link to James Howard Kunstler's Eyesore of the Month from a few months ago...it features the Seattle Public Library, and I suspect that the plaza-less "Museum Plaza" will offer similar ambience on the altar of Louisville, and be worthy of similar criticisms...

http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200406.html

By the way, the street level that everyone is begging the building to address will be the Pure Geometry Spiral Entry Ramp for the underground Parking Terrace Piazza Square. I apologize for the hyperbole, but this building's name is so dishonest I can't believe it.

A question: does an exhibit exist for this "museum", or is it yet another Bilbao-imitating Empty Temple of Global Culture? Tourists, etc.?

[soulbrotha]

I appreciate the kind words...and would be more than happy to write anything you want!

But speaking of wordsmiths...below is a link to James Howard Kunstler's Eyesore of the Month from a few months ago...it features the Seattle Public Library, and I suspect that the plaza-less "Museum Plaza" will offer similar ambience on the altar of Louisville, and be worthy of similar criticisms...

http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200406.html

By the way, the street level that everyone is begging the building to address will be the Pure Geometry Spiral Entry Ramp for the underground Parking Terrace Piazza Square. I apologize for the hyperbole, but this building's name is so dishonest I can't believe it.

A question: does an exhibit exist for this "museum", or is it yet another Bilbao-imitating Empty Temple of Global Culture? Tourists, etc.?

well here is something i found about the seattle public library

http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek05/...braryawards.htm

ight Beautiful Buildings Win 2005 Library Awards

...who is James Howard Kunstler by the way?

[BnaBreaker]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why Louisvillians are coming into the TENNESSEE forum to defend some random proposal as if it were a personal part of their lives. It's just a building guys. Relax. Some people like it, others (like me) hate it...but neither of those opinions have anything to do with their opinions of Louisville. I LIKE Louisville, which is why I hate this building so much...not only because I think it's ugly...but also because I think it will destroy Louisville's great skyline. You don't have to jump to support of something just because it's in your city. You ARE ALLOWED to push for something better. Now, if you guys genuinely like the building, then good for you. I'm glad it's being built in a city where they would appreciate it. For you, though, to say that anyone who doesn't like the proposal is "jealous of" and "hates" Louisville is not only completely ridiculous and unfounded, but also very childish and (in my opinion) points to possible insecurity about your city. Louisville is awesome guys. It'll survive without you attacking anyone who doesn't support everything it does. Trust me.

By the way, Regarding the Seattle Public Library...it is an ABSOLUTE DISASTER at street level. It completely destroyed the street activity in the area. Any urban designer will tell you that it is a terrible design as far as how it relates to the street.

[Hankster]

Let's face it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some buildings are designed to be different...to shock. There is always a strong reaction to projects such as this, and they will always range from complete disgust, to the direct opposite. I rather like this project, and would definitely prefer it to the Marina Tower project that was proposed a while back for Nashville. I think this project will become a tourist attraction for Louisville. People will come just to see this unusual structure and feel its difference. I tend to agree with Linclinc that the design could possibly be improved if the boxy edge could be lessened a bit. Otherwise I be like Lexy and say, "Let see some dirt moving!" IMO, congratulations Louisville on a truly spectacular and unusual project. I really do hope you see it get built.

[soulbrotha]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why Louisvillians are coming into the TENNESSEE forum to defend some random proposal as if it were a personal part of their lives. It's just a building guys. Relax. Some people like it, others (like me) hate it...but neither of those opinions have anything to do with their opinions of Louisville. I LIKE Louisville, which is why I hate this building so much...not only because I think it's ugly...but also because I think it will destroy Louisville's great skyline. You don't have to jump to support of something just because it's in your city. You ARE ALLOWED to push for something better. Now, if you guys genuinely like the building, then good for you. I'm glad it's being built in a city where they would appreciate it. For you, though, to say that anyone who doesn't like the proposal is "jealous of" and "hates" Louisville is not only completely ridiculous and unfounded, but also very childish and (in my opinion) points to possible insecurity about your city. Louisville is awesome guys. It'll survive without you attacking anyone who doesn't support everything it does. Trust me.

By the way, Regarding the Seattle Public Library...it is an ABSOLUTE DISASTER at street level. It completely destroyed the street activity in the area. Any urban designer will tell you that it is a terrible design as far as how it relates to the street.

do you live in seattle, or have you determined this by pictures only?...which would be crazy.

[Muldrake76]

http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200210.html

Not that I agree, but given the current bantering back and forth, I found this to be quite amusing....

[BnaBreaker]

do you live in seattle, or have you determined this by pictures only?...which would be crazy.

No I don't live in Seattle, but i've been to Seattle, been all around the Public Library and inside it, and i've studied it in urban design classes. Why do you think I would just make something like that up? Is it because you to think i'm 'jealous' of Louisville, and i'd make up anything to 'bring it down'?

[Rural King]

Dave, if its okay I'm going to merge this into its twin KY thread. It really needs to go over there now that its such a big discussion.

[cheeriokid61]

I just think that Louisville is a great city that doesn't get enough attention. But face it, they haven't gotten a great tower in several years. This happened to Nashville, and when we finally got a good proposal, the design wasn't the best, but we fought and ended up with a great design. I think Louisville should just fight a little, and they could get a spectacular tower. The developer wants to get a wow factor, and they could do that, but I don't think this is they we they should go. If they were to build two twin towers, each with about eighty stories, and possibly be over 900 tall, they could easily get the same wow factor, and that would open up Louisville to more development. That's just my personal opinion. But I'm not from Louisville, and if Louisvillians want this, by all means, take it! Just make sure you don't miss the opportunity for the real turning point that this could be.

[ppassafi]

Well, we all like it. Believe me, if they poposed something stupid, I would cry foul--BUT I would still hail it as a good FUNCTIONAL project for our city. It is only natural to be somewhat jealous when your brother gets something. Ill be honest, when Nashville annouced Sig Tower, I wanted one. I guess its not a jealousy, but wanting something for your city. Maybe thats a better term.

This isnt some craptastic project. Its a bold, innovative, and ultra modern design. Maybe its a fad, maybe it isnt. Only time will tell. But to say this project wont happen or to say its not good for Louisville IMO IS jealousy, and proves ignorance to the details (the architecure of Louisville, bold buildings like Humana and Kaden, our art scene). Now, I havent seen it so much here. But at SSC, for example, an Indy forumer got called out for jealousy and got into it with a Louisville forumer. This is nonsense. A true neighbor would say, "Well, the design is pretty tacky, but the buildings function and purpose is awesome for Louisville or ANY city." I guess that is my point. 61 floors of mixed use in any metro under 2 million is BIG TIME news, regardless of how it looks.

Not liking the design is one thing. I think the developer wants many of you to not like it. But to say it wont be built or is bad for Louisville is at best misinformed. This project in any city would be a boon. Its stated function is excellent for any city, including NYC or Chicago.

[soulbrotha]

No I don't live in Seattle, but i've been to Seattle, been all around the Public Library and inside it, and i've studied it in urban design classes. Why do you think I would just make something like that up? Is it because you to think i'm 'jealous' of Louisville, and i'd make up anything to 'bring it down'?

iwas just wondering. Because it just seems like it would be dumb to judge a building by just pictures.

[ATLBrain]

Let's face it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some buildings are designed to be different...to shock. There is always a strong reaction to projects such as this, and they will always range from complete disgust, to the direct opposite. I rather like this project, and would definitely prefer it to the Marina Tower project that was proposed a while back for Nashville. I think this project will become a tourist attraction for Louisville. People will come just to see this unusual structure and feel its difference. I tend to agree with Linclinc that the design could possibly be improved if the boxy edge could be lessened a bit. Otherwise I be like Lexy and say, "Let see some dirt moving!" IMO, congratulations Louisville on a truly spectacular and unusual project. I really do hope you see it get built.

Hank, I think that's the whole difference between the two buildings, and cities. Nashville rejected the Marina Towers. I guess a cruder person (OK guilty) would say that the folks there weren't willing to prostitute aesthetics just just to get a tall.

Now, if the whole purpose of this building is to shock, then apparently it will fulfill it's mission. If supporters in Louisville are all for that mission, then they'll be quite happy with the result because it will stand out for years to come. I'm seeing a lot of rah-rahing in support of this. I only hope it's genuine because from the comments by the developers and architects, they really don't seem to care what kind of negative feedback they'll get. This baby's going through as-is.

Which brings me to the common theme from many of the detractors of this proposal. And I've sensed a real disappointment with this project due to its complete rejection of principles of ideal urban design. It's perfectly acceptible (even encouraged) to be edgy with new designs, but edginess is no guarantee of future success (or acceptance). My problem with this one is that it looks like it was designed with only its dominance of the skyline in mind.

I looked at this proposal for the first time yesterday and didn't like it. So I thought I'd give it a second look, and today I don't like it any better. In fact, I think it looks like a really bad joke, but the architect doesn't care what I think. He apparently wants to be edgy.

When it's built, it still won't be the ugliest building in L'ville. That honor goes to the one with the gold rings all around it on the Waterson Expy.

[ATLBrain]

iwas just wondering. Because it just seems like it would be dumb to judge a building by just pictures.

I think it makes perfect. I thought the Chrysler Building was the most beautiful building I'd ever seen long before I visited NYC. Seeing it for-real only convinced me I was correct.

[cheeriokid61]

Well, we all like it. Believe me, if they poposed something stupid, I would cry foul--BUT I would still hail it as a good FUNCTIONAL project for our city. It is only natural to be somewhat jealous when your brother gets something. Ill be honest, when Nashville annouced Sig Tower, I wanted one. I guess its not a jealousy, but wanting something for your city. Maybe thats a better term.

I wish you would stop saying I'm jealous. You're not in my head.

[soulbrotha]

it might not be jealousy...but i know a lot of people in cities around louisville are kinda of shocked that Louisville is getting a 61 story skyscraper..regardless of the design...people just don't expect this in Louisville.

another thing i just thought about, was the fact that this could lure taller skyscrapers to the other side of the river...it would be cool to start seeing some 20-30 story towers pop up in jeffersonville and clarksville.

[cheeriokid61]

You're right, I am shocked. But not jealous. There is a large difference between the two. And yes, I'm sure this will lure more towers, but I hope they stay in the CBD. They need to fill in the gap between this tower and the rest of downtown. Besides, Louisville has a very dense skyline, but it can always be denser, and denser, to me, is what makes a skyline so great. That is why I love Louisville's skyline as it is.

[soulbrotha]

You're right, I am shocked. But not jealous. There is a large difference between the two. And yes, I'm sure this will lure more towers, but I hope they stay in the CBD. They need to fill in the gap between this tower and the rest of downtown. Besides, Louisville has a very dense skyline, but it can always be denser, and denser, to me, is what makes a skyline so great. That is why I love Louisville's skyline as it is.

lol

[chris holman]

I believe towers with designs like this are for very dense downtown's like New York or Chicago where there is already alot going on with the skyline already. A city that has blocks and blocks of high rises and this tower thrown somewhere in between. Maybe next to an art museum or gallery with an seemlier design.

This tower should not be a standalone project, It's to tall to not be in the center of your downtown and it doesn't complement your skyline.

Plus that's a $380 dollar tower!!! And that's the best they can come up with.

[soulbrotha]

I believe towers with designs like this are for very dense downtown's like New York or Chicago where there is already alot going on with the skyline already. A city that has blocks and blocks of high rises and this tower thrown somewhere in between. Maybe next to an art museum or gallery with an seemlier design.

This tower should not be a standalone project, It's to tall to not be in the center of your downtown and it doesn't complement your skyline.

Plus that's a $380 dollar tower!!! And that's the best they can come up with.

yeah they just drew it up with crayon ....... ....not

Coming Sunday: The story behind Museum Plaza

For many Louisvillians, the vision of a towering Museum Plaza seemed to fall out of the sky this week.

But there was nothing sudden about the design of Louisville

[Vertigo]

First of all, let me say how much I LOVE this design and I'm usually pretty picky when it comes to garnering praise for projects such as this.

That being said, I'm not the least bit surprised at the reaction to those in neighboring cities. I will say that I think the reaction to those in Nashville is actually nicer than those located in most Ohio cities. That should tell you something right there. lol!

The issue facing this building right now can be summed up in one simple analogy...

Ask 100 people in Nashville their opinion of this building. You'll get a vast majority of disapproval of the design. Big shock there

Then ask 100 people in Chicago their opinion of the building. I can guarantee you that the there would be greatly contrasting opinions between the two cities. Would everyone in Chicago approve of the building? No. This building would even push buttons in Chicago, but at least people there are aware that their skyline became great not because it followed the norm, but instead it pushed boundaries.

When the John Hancock Center opened many people HATED the design. It was ugly, out of scale, not pedestrian friendly, too overpowering in the skyline. A lot of the same complaints that have surfaced against Museum Plaza. It's always easy to point out a failed experiment such as Ren Center in Detroit (a weak but common comparison) rather than look at how a risk can pay off. Despite the fact that it's title as the city's tallest was short lived, today the John Hancock Center remains one of the most beloved buildings in the city.

I don't think a lot of the negative reaction to this building comes from jealousy. I think it has more to do with the fact that we are a product of our own environment. Take someone from New York City and lock them in a room with someone from Hong Kong. Then ask them to decide which is better, Art Deco or Post Modern? Do you really think they'll come to a civilized agreement?

That's why people in places like Nashville or Cincinnati have a difficult time understanding this building. There is nothing in their own environment of this magnitude that they can relate to. Most skyscraper design in smaller American markets tends to be VERY conservative so something like this naturally seems out of place. However, is that a rule that we must follow?

A lot of the animosity on here stems from the fact this building refuses to follow the rules. That's why it's being built in Louisville and not Nashville. I know Louisville as well as anyone and I can assure everyone that this building will fit in fine with what this town currently has to offer.

Living in a city that is blessed with 'beauties' such as Kaden Tower, The 800, and Waterfront Plaza, it takes a little more effort to create something that will actually shock the locals. Louisville needs this building to show the world that it isn't afraid (artistically or financially) to step out onto the ledge. Ironically, this building needs Louisville just as much. Outside of NYC and Chcago, there aren't a lot of cities that would have the balls to put up something like this. The truth is that there are few cities that would embrace a project such as Museum Plaza for what it is, not what it needs to be. That can create one of the strongest and longest lasting connections architecture can have to it's environment. And that, my friends, is the recipe for creating a landmark.

[BnaBreaker]

First of all, let me say how much I LOVE this design and I'm usually pretty picky when it comes to garnering praise for projects such as this.

That being said, I'm not the least bit surprised at the reaction to those in neighboring cities. I will say that I think the reaction to those in Nashville is actually nicer than those located in most Ohio cities. That should tell you something right there. lol!

The issue facing this building right now can be summed up in one simple analogy...

Ask 100 people in Nashville their opinion of this building. You'll get a vast majority of disapproval of the design. Big shock there

Then ask 100 people in Chicago their opinion of the building. I can guarantee you that the there would be greatly contrasting opinions between the two cities. Would everyone in Chicago approve of the building? No. This building would even push buttons in Chicago, but at least people there are aware that their skyline became great not because it followed the norm, but instead it pushed boundaries.

When the John Hancock Center opened many people HATED the design. It was ugly, out of scale, not pedestrian friendly, too overpowering in the skyline. A lot of the same complaints that have surfaced against Museum Plaza. It's always easy to point out a failed experiment such as Ren Center in Detroit (a weak but common comparison) rather than look at how a risk can pay off. Despite the fact that it's title as the city's tallest was short lived, today the John Hancock Center remains one of the most beloved buildings in the city.

I don't think a lot of the negative reaction to this building comes from jealousy. I think it has more to do with the fact that we are a product of our own environment. Take someone from New York City and lock them in a room with someone from Hong Kong. Then ask them to decide which is better, Art Deco or Post Modern? Do you really think they'll come to a civilized agreement?

That's why people in places like Nashville or Cincinnati have a difficult time understanding this building. There is nothing in their own environment of this magnitude that they can relate to. Most skyscraper design in smaller American markets tends to be VERY conservative so something like this naturally seems out of place. However, is that a rule that we must follow?

A lot of the animosity on here stems from the fact this building refuses to follow the rules. That's why it's being built in Louisville and not Nashville. I know Louisville as well as anyone and I can assure everyone that this building will fit in fine with what this town currently has to offer.

Living in a city that is blessed with 'beauties' such as Kaden Tower, The 800, and Waterfront Plaza, it takes a little more effort to create something that will actually shock the locals. Louisville needs this building to show the world that it isn't afraid (artistically or financially) to step out onto the ledge. Ironically, this building needs Louisville just as much. Outside of NYC and Chcago, there aren't a lot of cities that would have the balls to put up something like this. The truth is that there are few cities that would embrace a project such as Museum Plaza for what it is, not what it needs to be. That can create one of the strongest and longest lasting connections architecture can have to it's environment. And that, my friends, is the recipe for creating a landmark.

Yet another swath of ridiculous assumptions by a Louisvillian about the motives of their neighbors. What is with you guys? We proved we didn't hate Louisville (but infact love it), we proved that we are in no way jealous of the city (and infact want Louisville to get a new tall, just not this one), and now when those don't work as excuses anymore, now we are all conservative small town bumpkins who 'don't understand daring architecture'? Please folks. I hate it because I think it looks ridiculous, and that it follows NONE of the principles of urban design, which are pretty good rules to follow, unless of course you aren't into having a successful urban space and everything. I have nothing against daring architecture. Turning Torso, Jin Mao, Burj Al Arab...love them all...but architecture can be daring AND bad. Obviously my opinions are far from being the truth. I'm not trying to say they are...but please, I just want you to understand that there is no alterior motive behind mine (and others) disapproval of this building. Perhaps you get jealous of the successes of your sister cities, but Nashvillians (at least the ones I know) do not make a practice of it.

Again, congrats on the building. If you truly like it, then great. I do not like it. I'm just being honest, and my opinion would be the same if this were a proposal for Nashville or Bangkok or Medicine Hat Alberta.

[soulbrotha]

We proved we didn't hate Louisville (but infact love it), we proved that we are in no way jealous of the city (and infact want Louisville to get a new tall, just not this one),

well good thing its not up to our "neighbors" to decide lol

[ATLBrain]

I just can't agree. Even in Atlanta, which is as close to a world class city as you can get between Miami and Chicago, I'm sure this building would be disliked by a large majority of the sample of 100, even laughed at by many. Does that make us rubes? Hardly. Most would think you could get a much better looking building for the money. But more than that, they'd know that this building isn't shocking. On the contrary, it's a step back. You see, our city is still trying to recover from the damage done by monstrous structures built in the 60s and 70s that rejected the fabric of the city.

I simply disagree that it takes effort to shock. There are lots of things that shock without any effort at all (i.e. body odor, bad table manners, and the Atlanta Falcon's self-destructive season). That doesn't make them great.

Why is shock! the statement of our times? Have we reached a point where the only meaning that can be derived from something or someone is to be offensive... er, I mean shocking?

I'm not shocked by this building (I don't think most on this forum are shocked). Rather, I'm disappointed that this kind of stuff is still being passed off as grand design. Louisville needs a great building to sit along its wonderful riverfront. It needs height, and yes, something edgy. Louisville doesn't need this structure. Sadly, it is shockingly ugly.

[soulbrotha]

i thought i just posted an article that said the developers WHO ARE PAYING FOR THIS WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, spend 10 months looking for designs and this was their final choice. they went to europe, and talked to architects all over the u.s. they didn't just come up with this over night.

sunday we will find out a lot more about the background of this skyscraper.

[Rural King]

Well, like it or not, if it gets built it will be a bold move, that IMO will move the city in a forward direction as far as urban development goes. I think if it does get built, then when its up and interacting with the city we will be better able to judge to what degree the impact on urban and economic development will be for downtown, but I can't see it being a negative one.

The design seems rather strong to many I think because its in a smaller market, but in 20-30 years this design may not be that out of line for such markets, or it may be. We'll have to wait and see. Either way it will be a landmark structure that will mark a bold step by the city of Louisville to move their urban core forward.