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Durham Urban Outfitters

nyxmike

By nyxmike
in The Coffee House

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JDC Burg

JDC

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There are 241 lofts at West Village, plus about 50 more between 5 or 6 buildings on Main St (Kress Building, Baldwin Lofts) Add to that 30-40 (?) more in the Bullington Warehouse adjacent to West Village, the huge Station Nine complex near 9th Street (lofts and "flats") and that long two-story mill building on Ninth St. (those are living spaces, correct?).

The fact that Urban Outfitters is coming to Durham is good news for a lot of people who seek an "alternative" clothing store (by that I mean not Old Navy, Gap, AE, etc.). It is, however, disappointing, because it's a store that's become a parody of itself. It used to be that Urban Outfitters was generally found in trendy shopping districts in cities. Growing up in the Boston area, my friends and I used to take the T to Newbury Street or Harvard Square to go to Urban Outfitters. Being in the city sort of gave the store a sense of authenticity. Seems almost silly now.

I got a good chuckle at the statements about Southpoint. With all the construction going on in downtown Durham, my girlfriend and I, sadly, find it almost necessary to go to Southpoint to get the "feel" of city shopping. That's even sillier.

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StevenRocks City

StevenRocks

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It's a great store, and a great mall, as malls go; but that doesn't change the fact that it killed an existing mall and a half (South Square and Northgate), plus some of U Mall in Chapel Hill, and exacerbates the sprawl pattern that has no possible connection for transit, which diminshes revitalization efforts in the area's downtowns and reduces the chances for a TTA system's success. Plus they paved over some pretty extensive acreage in really close proximity to our drinking water supply.
Most of the things you say are true to an extent, but that's just how commerce works. If it wasn't The Streets at Southpoint, it would have been another mall.

The demand for better retail in Durham went unheeded for many years, but you couldn't have expected it to be solved by existing facilities. South Square, Northgate and University Malls were all older malls that required substantial renovation to stay competitive.

South Square was particularly awful from a design standpoint, and had few expansion or renovation possibilities, and a perceived crime problem. Where all the criminals went when Target and Ross opened kind of baffles me, but I digress...

University Mall was figuratively stuck in a time warp and Hudson Belk wasn't doing enough business, nor did it have the will, to upgrade in Chapel Hill. So they did the smart thing and left, allowing A Southern Season to expand. That mall is a lot more interesting than it used to be, because it had to change to stay afloat.

Northgate is changing and has been in a constanst state of flux for years. Not building Southpoint wouldn't have solved anything at Northgate, and it's unfair to place Northgate's woes solely on Southpoint.

As far as Downtown Durham goes, I don't anyone here wants it to die, but that said, it's not like Nordstrom or Hecht's was licking their chops to be there either. Or for that matter, Urban Outfitters. Any time major retail develops outside of downtown, it does affect downtown's chances of success, but the existing malls had already precluded major retail from coming there anyway.

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DanRNC Burg

DanRNC

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Thank god South Square is gone-what a hole. It was on a slide well before Southpoint opened. I think everyone in Chapel Hill was glad when Belk's left U Mall-on a given day there were probably 3 people in the place. I'm not much of a mall person but Southpoint has added a lot of $$$ to Durham County and large chains were never going to move to downtown Durham anyway. U Mall actually does a decent amount of business now that they have become more local in their businesses.

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Transplant Hamlet

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Most Urban Outfitters are pretty large, at least two stories. The one in Georgetown is much larger than any Gap I have ever seen. So is the one in DC's Chinatown.

This is no surprise. The DC metro area is one of the largest in the country. I would be surprised if something that large came to Southpoint. Its too bad that something like this, UO, didn't get established in Downtown Durham. Hopefully it won't be long before theres more to do in the Downtowns than eat dinner (or drink).

What ever size this ends up being, its still a good 'get'.

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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post-1659-1139825049_thumb.jpg

The Georgetown Urban Outfitters is an adaptive reuse of an old Woolworth store. It's really cool.

This touches on some thoughts I had....the 1950's really set the stage for the success of malls with two big movements taking place....the tearing down of large swaths of small and medium size storefronts in downtowns and all the policies that allowed crime to fester in downtowns. Places like Georgetown still have their old storefronts intact and have always more or less had its crime under control. In places like Raleigh and Durham a strip like M Street in Georgetown does not physically exist anymore and we all know about downtown Raleigh's crime reputation right up until the early 90's...Durhams persist's in image if not in some degree in fact (I saw a guy get shot in the Brightleaf parking lot in 1996). So what do malls provide? The physical space for retail to exist....rows and rows of small retail spaces....and safety. I cant blame UO for wanting to be in a mall around here....the last couple of old buildings that would work for them are disappearing (i.e. the Durham Woolworths was recetnly bulldozed....so much for the first place MLK participated in a sit-in) and tobbacco warehouses do not lend themselves to retail...rows of stores like a mall or M street.

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NCMike1981 Burg

NCMike1981

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There's a ton, I mean a ton of empty storefronts in downtown Durham which hopefully one day will be full of life again. I mean driving along Main St, Parrish St, as well as others whose names escape me and basically that's all you see are empty storefronts. Durham never had a tower boom so when you drive through downtown it's on a very human scale, almost reminds me of an empty downtown Wilmington with a few taller buildings...

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capitalapts Whistle-Stop

capitalapts

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That is good news for Southpoint. Gotta scratch my head, though, that Urban Outfitters is coming to a shopping mall created this decade by the clearing of a bunch of woods out on the interstate. That mall, which not only killed another mall and Durham's downtown revitalization, contains a fake downtown streetscape complete with a fake smokestack. Weird.

Classic post, and every bit of it true. I always looked at southpoint cynically for these very reasons, although they do have the area's only apple store and nordstrom's.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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The only UO I've been in is the one at Southpark in Charlotte, so I don't know if that's a good example of the concept as a whole or not. To me, it was a slightly more tolerable version of gap, abercrombie, american eagle, etc. but with more puma, etc. and less in-house stuff. They also had drinking glasses, games (atari retro stuff at the time) and other spencers-ish trendy stuff. I think the organized living space is too big for just them. If they combined Pottery Barn, PB kids, and Restoration into there, Urban Outfitters and a couple of other stores could fill in the created holes. Or it looked like Metropolitan Deluxe was on its way out -- that would be about right size wise. They should be on the "street" than in the mall proper though. If it does well, I think there could be a Raleigh expansion into either downtown/Fayetville Street, North Hills phase 2, or that wacky thing behind the Waffle house in cary across from borders.

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StevenRocks City

StevenRocks

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The only UO I've been in is the one at Southpark in Charlotte, so I don't know if that's a good example of the concept as a whole or not. To me, it was a slightly more tolerable version of gap, abercrombie, american eagle, etc. but with more puma, etc. and less in-house stuff. They also had drinking glasses, games (atari retro stuff at the time) and other spencers-ish trendy stuff. I think the organized living space is too big for just them.
It's really smarter than Gap, American Eagle and Abercombie because they try to target ther customers' entire lifestyle rather than just the clothing. I think it's an innovative concept.
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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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It's really smarter than Gap, American Eagle and Abercombie because they try to target ther customers' entire lifestyle rather than just the clothing. I think it's an innovative concept.

I read somewhere the name Urban Outfitters is for this reason -- an inner city version of old school "outfitters" -- early day REIs, Great Outdoor Provision Centers, etc. So it's not just clothes, but candy, dishes, etc.

Why do you think no other retailers have latched on to this concept? Other stores seem to have enough floor space and foot traffic, but rarely step outside of their core clothes "compentecies". Old Navy has dog toys and holiday stuff, Hollister has CDs and magazines, Gap/Banna Republic has fragrences and some accessories, Pacific Sunwear has hats, shoes, and sunglasses, but that's about it. The closest also rans are Hot Topic, but that's just toys and stickers, not "useful" items. The next closest is Target, but that is its everything under one roof nature, and there is little to no direct "lifestyle" attachment between clothes and other goods.

A friend said there was a store in Seattle that sold men's clothing next to high end stereo equipment, tvs, etc., which I thought would work well in the high tech/high income triangle area. If I had the money, i would couple this with the customer service and direct mail/email notices a la Nordstroms and Saks, with a customer loyalty system that would reward purchases with discounts, a VIP lounge, etc. But I don't know if there is a market for such a venture.

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StevenRocks City

StevenRocks

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Good ideas. I think your concept would work.

People have proven by demanding more out of specialty and discount stores that they want some semblence of the old-school department store experience. Unfortunately, the last people to recieve this message are the department stores, which want to become clothing specialty stores.

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Transplant Hamlet

Transplant

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I really wish they were opening in Raleigh... it is a smart move for Southpoint because I am sure I won't be the only person that sees UO as worth driving from Raleigh to Durham for.

If/When they open in raleigh, it would be nice if they did in an actual URBAN area. Fayetteville St would be perfect. But for that to work, there will need to be a lot more folks living down there. So, if they hold off for 2 years, it could work out well.

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Jones_ City

Jones_

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If/When they open in raleigh, it would be nice if they did in an actual URBAN area. Fayetteville St would be perfect. But for that to work, there will need to be a lot more folks living down there. So, if they hold off for 2 years, it could work out well.

Maybe Hatem can get them into the first two floors of the old McCrory space fronting Fayetteville, next to Port City Java...old building like in Georgetown, plus there are enough storefronts in that area for other merchants to join in the fun.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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If they wait two years to realize the Southpoint store can't handle all the demand, that would pencil in a Raleigh opening right at.. wow, 2008. Right when the convention center, RBC building, etc. will be coming on line and Fayetville street will have had a couple of years to get used to the new traffic patterns. By then Fayetville street may look like how North Hills looks now vs. NH circa 2003-2004, the last days of the old mall.

If UO doesn't want to wait two years, Crabtree could be quite luring with the rennovated L&T wing, or whatever comes of the old Toys R Us space.

The Organized Living space is a no brainer, and will provide yet another reason for people to drive by Cary Town Center and keep on going to Durham. I went to CTC on sunday, and it isn't "dead" yet, but there didn't seem to be that many affulent people there to actually shop, in stark contrast to my crabtree visit the sunday before.

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