Fayetteville City Plan 2025

[Mith242]

Actually I didn't mean to imply that you were being overly negative. I think maybe we were both playinf devil's advocate to each other. But you obviously understand the process much better because you are actually more connected to the process itself. I certainly wouldn't want you to get in any trouble to it's certainly great to have someone who really understands the process and can provide a perspective the rest of us probably never really see. I guess I'm a little surprised to hear that Fayetteville doesn't communicate that well with the respective departments and comissions to get things done. I wonder why that is. Also I probably didn't do a great job explaining myself and might have given the wrong impressions. Just because I talked to someone at one of these workshops doesn't mean everything is all said and done or just needs the correct paperwork filed and so on. As you said just because someone wants something done doesn't mean that they will get things the way they want. There are other people involved in the process. But it is interesting to hear some of these different perspectives from people involved in seperate aspects of the process.

[masons_dad1]

I totally understand what itk is saying... the people need to voice their opinions to the city planners or things may not get done the way the people want. So how can we, as concerned residents, get the people heard? I doubt the city planners are going to listen to just a few concerned residents but if there's anything I can do to have a positive effect on the way Northwest Arkansas grows then I'll be there.

I would like to think that we're not just observers of what's happening in Northwest Arkansas and I'd like to hear some ideas as to what we can do constructively to get things done the way we'd like them done.

[Mith242]

I wonder if perhaps things have been simplified just so that they can get people to voice their opinions and feel that they are playing an integral part of the whole process.

[masons_dad1]

I wonder if perhaps things have been simplified just so that they can get people to voice their opinions and feel that they are playing an integral part of the whole process.

So what are you saying? That we're all just too simple-minded to understand the complexities involved in intelligently planning and executing urban development? Huh? Is that what you're saying??? Huh? Huh?

[Mith242]

So what are you saying? That we're all just too simple-minded to understand the complexities involved in intelligently planning and executing urban development? Huh? Is that what you're saying??? Huh? Huh?

Well I meant it more in a way of if people felt that their opinion wasn't really going to matter because it's actually a long complicated system that relies on others to really get things accomplished then who's going to bother going out and trying to make reccomendations.

[masons_dad1]

Well I meant it more in a way of if people felt that their opinion wasn't really going to matter because it's actually a long complicated system that relies on others to really get things accomplished then who's going to bother going out and trying to make reccomendations.

Maybe Fayetteville should try what Bentonville did. They invited the public to go down to town hall and look at pictures of different types of buildings and urban designs and voted for which ones they liked. Bentonville then tallied the votes and based their Downtown Master Plan on those votes. Maybe they could develop a web-based voting system so more people would have access to the planning and could even promote the website at the library and community centers.

[Mith242]

Maybe Fayetteville should try what Bentonville did. They invited the public to go down to town hall and look at pictures of different types of buildings and urban designs and voted for which ones they liked. Bentonville then tallied the votes and based their Downtown Master Plan on those votes. Maybe they could develop a web-based voting system so more people would have access to the planning and could even promote the website at the library and community centers.

I do like the idea of having more internet related info. That reminds me I need to check out the website. They were supposed to be updating it when I went by to go see their temporary offices at Nadine Baum Studios. I also need to go back and see if there's any way to get to see more future developments and if I could possibly take a few pics when they're not busy using them. They were looking a lot into the South Pass development when I was there yesterday.

[Mith242]

I wonder what the consultants would (if not already) say about keeping Fayetteville identity while growing on the west side of town. What I mean by that is that west Fay is somewhat seperated from inner Fay by I-540-- I used to live out there as a kid, and even today it "feels" seperated from town. All the growth on that side of town will make those interchanges more congested, adding on to that IMO. Would they advocate more "crossings" (e.g. overpasses) over I-540, either vehicular (street), pedestrian (ped bridge), shared-use path, or a combination of those.

It's my humble opinion (and many citizens who shared similar comments for the I-540 Improvment Study) that the more connectivity over I-540 to the "core" of these cities like Fay, the better. Helps keep Fay identity together while relieving traffic congestion at key interchanges.

I also wonder how many of the people attending these workshops would say "yes" when asked whether road improvments should be made at those I-540 interchanges... then "yes" when asked whether sprawl is bad... and then say "yes" when asked whether road improvments contribute to sprawl. I bet you everyting it's a lot. I hope those consultants realize that too if they make unreasonable substantiations regarding transportation planning. Not that anyone is immune to criticism, but just giving some perspective.

I asked some of the Dover Kohl Urban Design team about worrying about the west part of the city being cut off and having a seperate feel from the rest of the city. They said they were worried about that aspect and mentioned that I-540 was like the 'Great Wall' cutting things off. Especially since there's very few routes from the main part of the city to the western part. I know at the meeting I attended people mentioned they wanted pedestrian crossings over I-540. I think that it would be a very possible idea. I'm not so sure on another interchange but it's going to be needed. Perhaps having a road further in the northern part of the city that also crosses and interchanges with I-540 is possible in the future.

[itk]

I totally understand what itk is saying... the people need to voice their opinions to the city planners or things may not get done the way the people want. So how can we, as concerned residents, get the people heard? I doubt the city planners are going to listen to just a few concerned residents but if there's anything I can do to have a positive effect on the way Northwest Arkansas grows then I'll be there.

I would like to think that we're not just observers of what's happening in Northwest Arkansas and I'd like to hear some ideas as to what we can do constructively to get things done the way we'd like them done.

Well, a couple of things. One, this being a democracy, in any issue that is political (and transportation definitely falls under that), politicians will listen to their constituents if enough of them speak up, among other things. Especially if they want to be realected of course. I guess this can be via letters, campaigns, and other things that registered voters do. Two, in the transportation process, the public has major input during the what is called public involvement process. For transportation projects that have already been designed, AHTD will host one or more public involvement meetings where any citizen can show up, look at the project, ask questions, and fill out comment forms. These are announced through the AHTD website and through the media (newspapers). In NWA, I don't think there are any of these scheduled in the next month or so. But at these forums, people can and often do influence where the final roadway can go (like if the design required Jon Doe to lose his front porch, he might show up and plead his case and if the road could go say 10 ft to the other side, it might just do so if its reasonable)

For transportation projects in the Environmental stage, there are one or more public sessions for people to show up and make comments and ask questions about a project. The last NWA one's were the Hwy 265 project in east Fay and Spr, and then the 412 Bypass study in Siloam Springs. The more controversial the project, the more people show up obviously. These sessions are for projects that are expected to have a good deal of environmental impact (impact to people's homes, properties, historical buildings, etc.), but are still somewhat in the NEPA/planning phase. For example, The 412 Siloam Springs session showed many maps of different possible alignments the bypass could take, so people could come see if it might impact their property/homes and ask questions and make comments. These comments are also important. (they become part of the NEPA document, and is considered when choosing a final alignment for say a bypass)

For transportation planning projects, again one or more public sessions are held. I think the last one of this kind was the I-540 Improvment meetings last summer. I know that at least early in the I-540 Planning Study, public comments at earlier sessions were very important when helping the consultants and AHTD decide where to focus their attention on problem areas.

For MPO planing purposes, multiple sessions are held to garner public input-- this go around it is for the 2030 Long Range Plan. Another one will be held probably in March sometime. Here, the public I know can have a major effect on transportation planning. For example, at the recent sessions to my surprise, a lot of citizens expressed major interest in the western bypass idea. When these are tabulated, they speak volumes, and are seen by planners, AHTD, MPO, FHWA, Highway Commisioners, politicians among others. In large part because of this I think, it was included in the (draft) 2030 Long Range Plan.

In general, one of the main reason for public involvement meetings is because it's a federal requirement; however, it's my understanding that AHTD does a good job going out of their way to get the public involved (more than the average DOT), more than what's minimally required. Mostly because it makes "business sense" so to speak-- by getting public involved as much as possible, you can assuage people's concerns for controversial projects but also get an idea what a majority of them are thinking. If an idea is popular with the public, it can be very influential; if an idea is very unpopular, it is also given heavy consideration.

So if you want to be heard the most, I think the best way is to go to public involvement meetings. If I remember, whenver the NARTS/NWARPC 2030 long range plan meeting is announced I'll try to post the date/time/location on here. Just bring your thinking cap and your legs, and your good to go.

[itk]

I asked some of the Dover Kohl Urban Design team about worrying about the west part of the city being cut off and having a seperate feel from the rest of the city. They said they were worried about that aspect and mentioned that I-540 was like the 'Great Wall' cutting things off. Especially since there's very few routes from the main part of the city to the western part. I know at the meeting I attended people mentioned they wanted pedestrian crossings over I-540. I think that it would be a very possible idea. I'm not so sure on another interchange but it's going to be needed. Perhaps having a road further in the northern part of the city that also crosses and interchanges with I-540 is possible in the future.

Agreed.

Whenever the I-540 interchanges begin the design phase, public meetings will be held. If ped crossings are a big issue with people, they should definitely mention it in their comment forms. I remember at the previous I-540 Planning Study public sessions, there were many comments about additional overpasses across I-540 for local traffic. There are several city planners/engineers in NWA who definitely agree with that. I do too. If a city pays for it, and it's reasonable, then I doubt AHTD would have any problem with it, even if it's just for ped/bicycles. As long as there aren't maintenance or operational issues, I bet it would be okay with them. Especially if it would relieve traffic from a nearby interchange!

[Mith242]

Agreed.

Whenever the I-540 interchanges begin the design phase, public meetings will be held. If ped crossings are a big issue with people, they should definitely mention it in their comment forms. I remember at the previous I-540 Planning Study public sessions, there were many comments about additional overpasses across I-540 for local traffic. There are several city planners/engineers in NWA who definitely agree with that. I do too. If a city pays for it, and it's reasonable, then I doubt AHTD would have any problem with it, even if it's just for ped/bicycles. As long as there aren't maintenance or operational issues, I bet it would be okay with them. Especially if it would relieve traffic from a nearby interchange!

I've also been hearing some of the city officials talk more about making the city more pedestrian friendly so I'm hopeing this is just the start and we get some things going here in the near future.

[masons_dad1]

Thanks itk! That was very informative. I guess I'm probably like a lot of people who don't go to these meetings because they don't feel like their opinions really count for anything. It would be great if you get a chance to post scheduled AHTD meetings and maybe some of us can team up and go to these meetings to represent UP for the common good of Northwest Arkansas.

[Mith242]

Thanks itk! That was very informative. I guess I'm probably like a lot of people who don't go to these meetings because they don't feel like their opinions really count for anything. It would be great if you get a chance to post scheduled AHTD meetings and maybe some of us can team up and go to these meetings to represent UP for the common good of Northwest Arkansas.

Yeah itk some great info. It's having someone like you to explain things in such detail. And masons_dad1 I also used to not bother going to any meetings and such. But it started making sense as I became more interested in developments and this forum too. Now I need to find out when and where Fayetteville's meeting for the planning comission are held. Some AHTD might also prove to be very informative and a place to get info directly.

[masons_dad1]

Yeah itk some great info. It's having someone like you to explain things in such detail. And masons_dad1 I also used to not bother going to any meetings and such. But it started making sense as I became more interested in developments and this forum too. Now I need to find out when and where Fayetteville's meeting for the planning comission are held. Some AHTD might also prove to be very informative and a place to get info directly.

I don't get down to Fayetteville too often but I've passed up a few opportunities recently to attend some of the public meetings here in Rogers, like the one for the proposed Beaver Lake condos. I'll try to keep an ear open for the next meeting and just go... it would be informative if nothing else.

[mcheiss]

The Condo meetings would have been hard to get in, I heard on the news that the final decision meeting was so packed, people were literally waiting in line hours before the meeting even started.

May'be I should go to some Rogers Town Hall Meetings or even some Planning Comission Meetings.

[Mith242]

I haven't been around much I went out and took some pics after work then I spent quite a bit of time talking to the Dover Kohl Urban Design team. Then there's a more official open house a little later so I'm going to go check it out too. I tried getting a few pics, they allowed me to take pics of work they were doing but not anything else because it wasn't technically theirs, but I did try. I might have to wait till tomorrow before I have time to post any pics though.

[Mith242]

I'll try to post some more pics and info sometime but I really need to eat something before I go and check out the open house here in a little bit.

[mcheiss]

Sweet.

I love how you put Urban Planet before the law.

[Mith242]

I still don't really have much time to post much info. I had a lot of great conversations with a lot of the design team. Although a lot just had to deal with general things like architecture and such. Not necessarily anything to do with Fayetteville directly. It's sorta sad, I was the first person in and I was the last person out. I was still talking to one of them when they were taking things down. But it was certainly interesting to get some of their perspectives on things since they work in that area. They're already noticing me visiting so much. One of them wanted to know if I was some sort of architect or developer the way I kept hanging around and asking questions. I even got the mayor to stop and talk to me for a little bit and asked him what he thought of everything. The final presentation will be on monday at the Town Center so you guys will know where I'll be that night. I'll try to post a little more tomorrow although my posting might be somewhat subdued with my friend possibly coming in town but I'll try to post some info when I can get the chance.

[Mith242]

The last meeting is for tonight at the Town Center. I also need to try to post a little more info that I haven't had time for before my busy weekend. I have to say I was really impressed with my conversations with the Dover Kohl Urban Design team. I probably talked to about half of them and each one for quite a while during the past week. All sorta of different topics, not just about Fayetteville but a lot about urban designs and current trends, architecture and transportation being the main ones. If any of them got tired of my long conversations they never showed it at least. I'm really curious to see what they'll have tonight. That reminds me I did manage to take a few pics the other day but haven't uploaded or posted any. I'll try to do that before I head out again tonight.

[Mith242]

Okay I'm finally getting around to uploading and posting some pics I took of some renderings and such that I took last friday at the open house. Most were being worked on so I wasn't able to get pics of them but here's some focusing a bit on the North St and Leverett intersection. I asked why they picked this one to focus on compared to some of the others. One of the reasons is a possible future light rail. They felt a large station where North crosses the railroad tracks would be a good location. In the next to last pic is a shot they had from Google Earth, but I was a bit off, the intersection is near the bottom of the pic. Then the last was a render one of the design team was working on with how that intersection could look in the future. I'll have more to show from that render later on.

[Mith242]

Here's some more pics I took last night at the final meeting. Well guess I shouldn't call it that. Apparently there will be a follow up meeting in April or May. Sorry if the pics didn't turn out great. I was having a hard time just getting to get up to the renderings and I also didn't bring my tripod. The first is a pic of the North Leverett intersection and a few progressions on how it could develop in the future.

[Mith242]

Okay here's a shot of the Fulbright Expressway. One the right you can see part of Target and on the left Washington Regional and some of the Medical Park. Then you can see some progression as it's changed into a multilane boulevard and a grid system is worked into that area.

Then there's a shot of the College Joyce intersection looking west and how that area could look into the future.

[Mith242]

Now I'll try to cover last night's meeting at the Fayetteville Town Center (and no it's not spelled Towne Centre like so many things are now). Despite the good turnout at the other meetings they didn't seem prepared for the runout and we had to delay the meeting to get a lot of chairs out. I guess with the bad weather they didn't think many would turn out. Victor Kohl spoke for most of the meeting and there was also a transportation consultant and an economist that also spoke to share their perspectives. As I've mentioned before it's really too bad some of you guys couldn't have been there. Even if it didn't pertain to the city you live in there was quite a bit of interesting info that I think many of you would have found interesting. I'm going to try to go over as much as I can recall in the next day or so. First I'll just go over some info I've posted over in the Light Rail topic near the top of the NWA forum. Light Rail was mentioned during the meeting mainly as a possibility in the future. Although one of the big aspects talked about is that the NWA metro is going to have to compete for the federal money with other cities. Even if NWA does grow and it does turn out we could really use one it doesn't mean they are simply going to hand over the money for it. One thing that has to be done is to really improve the bus services we have now. We basically have to start off at the bottom and work our way up. Perhaps development a better bus service in each city at the start. Then if we can establish that as a success then work towards providing services between cities here in the metro. Then after successes there then we can start more seriously considering a possible light rail. Some of these services like a light rail or even a trolley system is basically set up after a well established bus serice is already in place in the coverage area. It's more of an upgrade. We also have to increase density to really get a better bus system. We really just don't have the densities to support a good bus system in the area. And of course current housing developments aren't going to help that matter. I'll get more into that in my next post.

[Mith242]

Okay now on to a topic talked about mentioned by all three at the 2025 meeting, current developments. Right now most developers prefer to build on the outskirts of the city. A lot of this has to do with the fact that land is cheaper there. The same size house that's build closer to the center of the city compared to a house tha's built further on the edge could cost the same amount to buy but of course the developer makes more money on the edge because they paid less for the land. Another thing mentioned by the economist is that developers seem to be stuck in this idea that you have to build big houses on big lots to make money. Although he pointed out that if you made more affordable smaller houses on smaller lots you could actually make more because you can fit more houses into an area compared to the current trend. Hopefully between this and the current slowdown in the $300,000 homes here developers will finally catch on to this. Back to the density problem mentioned before, we have to find ways to get developers to want to develop land closer to the city center. Not all the NWA cities but some already have impact fees. There was a mention of changing how the impact fees work. Houses build on the edges of the city end up costing the city a lot more because of the increase costs of traffic. People on the edges of the city have to use their vehicles to get to work and travel a longer distance. Housing closer to the center of the city costs the city a lot less because people may not have to use their vehicles to get to work and even if they do they'll probably have to spend less time on the road to get to work and such. So there was talk of changing the impact fees so that developments further away the city core will get higher. Of course there were maps on an overhead to show how much land Fayetteville will consume if housing continues on the way it's being done now. I think this would end up using 15,000-16,000 acres. But they also showed that if you increased density just a bit and infilled areas inside the city you could easily cut it down to around 5,000 acres, and that was being conservative. Obviously it could be cut down even more if more density was used but they were trying to be realistic. More talk of density and other things mentioned at the meeting a little later.