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Convention Center shortcomings costing Nashville $$$$


smeagolsfree

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The CityPaper opinions are always entertaining and somewhat embarrassing to me as a citizen of Nashville. Naysayers on whatever issue is presented, often before reading, and mostly before giving the facts of any matter a chance to stand on their own merits before spewing an opinion.

On the Sounds deal, I merely made a statement that the peripheral development in SoBro would vastly improve the area's appearance and city's tax base. I was promptly called an "idiot."

You can't talk to these people. They're not civil.

But I love the CityPaper, nuts or not.

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There's some interesting opinions on that site.... that's for sure.

The one thing about the location that kinda bothers me... is how it seems that the 'tourist' areas will be moving closer and closer to residential areas... particularly in SoBro. If the special taxes for tourism are approved in the area where the new convention center will be located... the residents of Nashville will be affected more than the proposal will have you believe. But... I guess you would have this problem where ever you choose to build it, more than likely... so what can ya do?

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It looks like it will be a long time before the dust settles on this one. I will be on the fence until I hear more from the independent review of the report. It would be interesting if the NVCB would try and court the private businesses to invest in the CC since they will likely benefit the most. Has it ever been done before?

Can anyone confirm the information in Viewpoint: Big-spending in Davidson has the taxpayers fleeing opinion piece just posted on Sunday? Is Nashville's population really shrinking? Who is buying all of the new residential development? Why are we setting building permit records? The assertion that Nashville is not growing seems to be incorrect. All I could find were articles discussing that the entire region is growing. If this is the case, then is it taxes that are what is causing it.

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^No, that was just one person's opinion. They are one of the few people who don't want to pay for the new projects. Most people either don't mind putting out a little more cash, they want to see a new convention center, or they just have no idea what's going on. Nashville's population is definately not shrinking.

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I wondered about that guy too. He's from TN Tax Coalition so he's obviously not for more taxes to fund capitol projects. If you look at census info, it does look like Davidson is hemoraging residents according to the ten year censii(?). All other indications point to a growing population. Possibly, there was just innacurate reporting and data collection. Plus there is a huge amount of latino immigration in the area much of which is illegal which makes it hard to get accurate population data (one city paper estimate had the latino population in Davidson as high as 180,000! The official est. was 60,000 as of 04, I think).

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The numbers that guy had were through from something like 99 through 2003. What is interesting is that the same day there were other stories in the Tennessean about people moving back into downtown to live in luxurious condo buildings. One article featured a couple from outside of Davidson Co.-- they had lived in Springfield for decades--who had decided to move downtown. That is the new trend--and its just getting started--check on the numbers in 5 to 10 years.

The anti-tax movement can be a bit alarmist or extremist when trying to frighten people. The result is an argument that is sometimes rididculous. There are some legitmate reasons to debate the wisdom of the proposed CC--the angle that that guy came from was pretty much from left field, IMO.

The Sounds deal is a very good example showing that it doesn't matter how "sound" a public project deal is, these guys will be opposed.

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I wondered about that guy too. He's from TN Tax Coalition so he's obviously not for more taxes to fund capitol projects. If you look at census info, it does look like Davidson is hemoraging residents according to the ten year censii(?). All other indications point to a growing population. Possibly, there was just innacurate reporting and data collection. Plus there is a huge amount of latino immigration in the area much of which is illegal which makes it hard to get accurate population data (one city paper estimate had the latino population in Davidson as high as 180,000! The official est. was 60,000 as of 04, I think).

The census estimates for Davidson county are just plain wrong. The census estimates showed little growth for Davidson in the '90's while the 2000 census proved these estimates seriously wrong by showing a population up nearly 60,000. Obviously, they haven't learned a bit from their past mistakes. Metro estimated in 2004 a population increase of 25,000 over the 2000 census to 595,000. I believe Metro's estimate is close to on target. The population increases in Davidson are beginning to accelerate over the 2000-2004 gains as evidenced by record housing starts, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Davidson county isn't adding 10,000 new residents per year right now.

As for this project, i think it is one of the most important decisions the Metro will make for a long time. It is imperative that they do it right. I'm personally if favor, since it looks like the numbers show that it will have little impact on tax burdens to local residents as long as the projections are good. They better be damn sure of those projections. If they do this, the project must succeed. If it doesn't, the project could be an anchor on the city future growth and a burden for the city taxpayers. But I think Nashville's reputation as an entertainment center, it's lively downtown area that already exists, pro sports options, and it's location near the population center of the U.S. make it very likely to succed in a big way. I think Nashville has inherent advantages over other competing cities for convention goers as long as Nashville has the facilities that these conventioneers need and want.

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One thing I don't recall mentioned here is the airport. I don't use it everyday, but from what I hear I don't think that overall the fares to/from here are as good as other places. I really don't think that would make an impact on a group's decision to bring a conference here. Of course, if we pick up more air traffic, we should expect expanded service and better fares. Just a thought...

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One thing I don't recall mentioned here is the airport. I don't use it everyday, but from what I hear I don't think that overall the fares to/from here are as good as other places. I really don't think that would make an impact on a group's decision to bring a conference here. Of course, if we pick up more air traffic, we should expect expanded service and better fares. Just a thought...

Fares are very reasonable in and out of Nashville thanks to the prominence of Southwest Airlines there. Southwest's lower than average cost structure keeps a lid on prices. Cities that have mega-hub operations from one of the traditional big airlines (Delta, AA, NWA, Continental, US Air) tend to have higher prices due to less competition in their market from other carriers.

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With the announcement of a possible new music festival, along with a new Jack Daniels museum... it does kindof make me wonder if Nashville really needs a new CC. Maybe what Nashville really needs is more diverse tourism opportunities like those posted about today? No matter how big of a CC you build, you will never get a group as big as what FanFare attracts.

On the other hand... with a new CC, along with a bunch of more diverse tourism places... think about the opportunities. What other cities could offer so much to attract huge conventions? You could come for a convention, and get a taste of all the other things Nashville has to offer at the same time!

I guess i'm apparently still on the fence with the new CC thing lol

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Did anyone catch these articles regarding private-public funding of public infrastructure on Planetizen (at least the links to them)? They are discussing road infrastructure, but while reading it, it did not seem like such a stretch to pull together investors to build the CC. Obviously, toll roads are a lot easier to capture your market share since it will often be the preferred route, but if the CC, is lucrative then it would be a good investment for someone, especially if the City's infrastructure and persona would be adding to their competitive edge. The VCB says if we build it they will come, so it has to be true doesn't it?

Worth reading:

Public-Private Financings Are Providing Billions for Infrastructure

You Scratch My Back, I'll Scratch Yours

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It sounds like we're talking mid-rise with these hotels. 800-1000 rooms between two hotels aren't much if I read that correctly. I know many here aren't concerned with height but I was hoping to see Nashville get a tall hotel out of this. I'm also assuming that the new Sobro zoning restrictions for height have a lot to do with this two hotel idea.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I HIGHLY recommend that everyone listen to this radio broadcast of the Smart Cities segment Are Convention Centers a Silver Bullet? It is excellent. It is the best thing I have heard or read on the CC yet. It also specifically mentions Nashville. (The Civic Design Center had a link to it on their website).

Link to Segment

It is very informative and insightful into the convention center business and potential alternatives to them. The Bruce Katz interview is perfect. He discusses what really makes cities successful.

He states that retaining a highly educated and skilled workforce creates a successful city. So the keys to attract and retain them are:

1. Density

2. Amenities

3. Walkable Streets

4. Lively Downtown

5. Reclaimed Waterfront

It seems that Nashville is heading in the right direction. He points out that CCs inhibit all of the above. I am hearing over and over again from various sources that CCs never provide the returns expected.

The segment points out that cities spend around $200-300 per attendee after dense service cost and operational losses. Furthermore, because there is not a lot of data about the business and there is no publicly accessible info about the business, cities can not accurately evaluate the consultant's reports. I wonder if this is like analyst and stock brokers.

I can not wait to listen to some of Smart City's other segments.

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(This is written partly in jest, but there's a serious intent here). I think you fine Nashville forumers should get a grass roots movement underway to have the CC built in the gulch. Starting out with the 22 who showed up at the last forum meet would be a great beginning. I just think that area between Broad and Church in the gulch is so ideal for something like a CC (especially if the trains could run underneath it). Now, I'll send in my $5 to get this going. :)

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I am definetly leaning away from the SoBro site because I think SoBro is too important to the health of our city. I think it is more valuable as a vibrant mixed-use neighborhood than a CC. Especially since we are getting only 15 million dollars toward the city coffers and this is the optimistic projection. $455 million in property investments by private investors would generate just $5 million in property taxes. Property Tax Generator In addition, it would generate sales tax revenue. The Smart Radio segement just pushed me even further in this direction.

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Amen, bzorch. I've had a vision for SoBro longer than SoBro has been a point of discussion. The CC wasn't part of it. SoBro can be everything we want it to be, but I still have a problem with eating up so much of its potential with CC development. I think the Civic Design's ideas about the Gulch are extremely practical, exciting and in the overall best interest of the community.

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I have mixed feelings and have not made my mind up yet on the CC site. I do know that if the CC is built there then more of SoBro will be headed for redevelopment including areas on the other side of Lafayette St. That would be a good thing to try to clean that area up and move out some of the older warehouse type businesses in the area that are only open M-F, 8-5. Remember the Gulch site would take The Cannery Row complex and that would definitely be a lose, unless it would be located on the site that Tony has.

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I think the area between Broad and Church over the railroad tracks may actually be the better site. The possibility exists to extend it over the interstate as well. I would imagine that would be more than enough space. I think one of the main reasons that the SoBro site is being touted is because of it's proximity to the existing center, and the ability to turn it into a fantastic facility of meeting rooms, etc which is already linked to a convention Hotel. I would suspect the cost of the area between Broad and Church would require the construction of a new meeting room facility, thus driving up the cost of the entire project considerably. If I'm wrong about this cost aspect, I would prefer the Broadway to Church St. site. It would fill a space which has much less urban potential as the SoBro site, and allow the SoBro area to develop into its full potential as an urban living district.

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That is an interesting reply. I know that Seattles convention center is built of the 5 freeway downtown. I have seen pictures of it either on this site or SSP and it is pretty intersting. I doubt it will happen in Nashville though. I am starting to lean more towards the gulch area but I guess it will be a good thing for the city wherever it is built. I just hope that it is architecturally tasetful to keep in line with all of the other main venues downtown. Heck we have classical with the new Schermerhorn, Jetsons Space Age with the GEC, Post Modernism (I think that is what it's supposed to be :huh: ) with the C.M. Hall Of Fame so I can't imagine what they will think of next :unsure:

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It seems like if the CC was built over the RR tracks or highway in this post-911 era, it would be considered a security risk. BTW did anyone listen the the Smart City segment? I know its long (20-30 minutes)? But well worth it. Curious what others thought of the interviews.

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