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Bush Administration to Sell off NC National Forests


monsoon

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Generally speaking, national forests aren't clear-cut.

I know that, thats not what i was saying (should of made myself more clear). :thumbsup:

Im saying build on existening private land thats already been clearcutted. Make a fair offer with property owners but dont pursue any eminent domain.

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Isn't Mt. Mitchell already completely scarred by acid rain that gets blown in from Atlanta and points west? Where is NC's Congressional representation on Bush's proposal? Are Senators Dole and Burr and Congressmen/women like Foxx being Republican lapdogs or are they putting the interests of the state first?

I graduated from college with a degree in Environmental Science, and we were fortunate to hear many points of view and a balanced perception of what we were studying. Despite the environmentalist agenda present in the majority of the textbooks, my teacher took the time to expose us to alternate theories, and in some cases exposing outright dishonesty in a lot of what was published as fact. The truth is, acid rain did not kill trees in the Appalachians. You never hear this anywhere, but we took a field trip up to the top of the Smoky Mtns. in 1995 and the National Forest Service and the private forestry experts informed us that the death of the trees was caused by a tiny, invasive insect called the Balsam Wooly Adelgid. It had infested the majority of the trees up there and killed them. However, the newer trees were immune to the effects of the Adelgid and were growing like normal underneath the dead ones (we saw them, by the thousands). Now they should be big trees. Yet people swear and vow to this day that acid rain is what killed the trees, and nobody is the wiser.

PS, I don't support this policy, nor do I support cutting all forests. The trees up there may have survived the Adelgid, but they won't survive the chainsaw. There should always be some forests forever protected from being cut.

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In an effort to make a little money to counter the huge spending and resulting budget deficits of the the Bush Administration, the 2007 Bush Budget includes a provision to sell off our national forest land to private development. In North Carolina the proposal so far is:
  • Croatan National Forest - 895 acres

  • Uwharrie National Forest - 2,317 acres

  • Pisgah National Forest - 2,780 acres (unknown how much of this is on the Blueridge Parkway)

  • Nantahala National Forest - 3,835 acres

The total selloff, all states, is supposed to net the federal government $800M dollars. To put this number in perspective this is about 3 days of federal spending in Iraq. And keep in mind, there are $300M in Fema trailers sitting unused and sinking into the mud that were purchased for Katrina victims. These trailers will be a total loss.

I personally consider this an outrage and is another example of a corrupt Republican government taking away from the public sector to enrich private individuals. And also the failed economic policy of this admistration.

Much of that land used to be privately owned...before it was GIVEN to the govt. At one time the land where your house is was pristine. What happened?

There's no law against you and a bunch of people buying it up to preserve it.

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Much of that land used to be privately owned...before it was GIVEN to the govt. At one time the land where your house is was pristine. What happened?

There's no law against you and a bunch of people buying it up to preserve it.

And I would bet the land would not have been donated to the government for the enjoyment of all if they knew the government was going to turn around and sell it off to private developers. These people were wronged as well.

This administration is an absolute disaster for the USA Bush is easily the worst President in the USA's history in the last 100 years.

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Much of that land used to be privately owned...before it was GIVEN to the govt. At one time the land where your house is was pristine. What happened?

There's no law against you and a bunch of people buying it up to preserve it.

Just like there's no law against you and a bunch of your friends funding the completion of I-540... :)

I suppose the point is that maintaining infrastructure and natural attractions should not be up to private citizens--it should be placed in the stable and trustworthy hands of the government... they are supposed to work for the people afterall.

More and more it seems like our government is slowly but surely shrugging off responsibilities here at home... primarily because they are beyond broke and have less wisdom about handling money than a spoiled rich college kid with a new credit card.

And that reminds me--the Uwharrie National Forest is only smack in the middle of the oldest existing mountain range in North America. I say let's blast down a bunch of trees, sell them off to a lumber and paper facility, and build a gigantic RV park. Nothing screams "nature" and "ancient continental history" like baby pine trees, fresh asphault, and a chlorinated swimming pool. :lol:

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The Uwharries aren't terrifically mountainous at that. Only a few peak above 1000 feet in elevation. Morrow Mountain, which is part of the range but has its own state park, is 930 feet. King's Mountain is the tallest, I think.

This makes them all the more vulnerable, because there's a lot of space between them, and many of them slope gently enough to just build on.

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The truth is, acid rain did not kill trees in the Appalachians. You never hear this anywhere, but we took a field trip up to the top of the Smoky Mtns. in 1995 and the National Forest Service and the private forestry experts informed us that the death of the trees was caused by a tiny, invasive insect called the Balsam Wooly Adelgid. It had infested the majority of the trees up there and killed them. However, the newer trees were immune to the effects of the Adelgid and were growing like normal underneath the dead ones (we saw them, by the thousands). Now they should be big trees. Yet people swear and vow to this day that acid rain is what killed the trees, and nobody is the wiser.
Historically, the peaks of the Black Mountains, including Mt. Mitchell, were covered with a Spruce-Fir forest, with Red Spruce trees at the margins around and above 4000 feet, with more Frasier Fir trees at the peaks.

Adelgids attack Frasier Firs. The "New trees" that are "Immune to the effects of the Adelgid" are all Spruces. The Frasier Firs are, essentially, gone from the ecosystem. But it isn't just the firs that are disappearing - many Spruce trees were dying before they could reach maturity. Many speculate that this is a result of the acidic clouds that engulf Mitchell 8 out of every 10 days all year long, and indeed evidence seems to indicate this is the case. Acidic clouds and pollution may even have played a role in the disappearance of Frasier Firs as well. We don't know and probably never will.

Mount Mitchell is not fixed. The ecosystem has been permanently and irreparably altered. And you're right that acid rain (or, more appropriately, acid fog) is not the only cause, but the bugs aren't the only problem, either.

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Historically, the peaks of the Black Mountains, including Mt. Mitchell, were covered with a Spruce-Fir forest, with Red Spruce trees at the margins around and above 4000 feet, with more Frasier Fir trees at the peaks.

Adelgids attack Frasier Firs. The "New trees" that are "Immune to the effects of the Adelgid" are all Spruces. The Frasier Firs are, essentially, gone from the ecosystem. But it isn't just the firs that are disappearing - many Spruce trees were dying before they could reach maturity. Many speculate that this is a result of the acidic clouds that engulf Mitchell 8 out of every 10 days all year long, and indeed evidence seems to indicate this is the case. Acidic clouds and pollution may even have played a role in the disappearance of Frasier Firs as well. We don't know and probably never will.

Mount Mitchell is not fixed. The ecosystem has been permanently and irreparably altered. And you're right that acid rain (or, more appropriately, acid fog) is not the only cause, but the bugs aren't the only problem, either.

Are there Frasier Fir systems that haven't been killed off in NC? I hiked through the shining rock wilderness area last September, and I thought we went through a grove of them, but maybe not. There were no skeletons during the entire hike, which was very unexpected.

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Oh yeah... we should definitely persue squeezing every last drop of non-renewable dinosaur muck from the ground at whatever the cost. We should also endeavor to burn it up as quickly as possible. The latter part becomes even easier to accomplish now that these "resources" are becoming more and more sought after and fought/killed for by some of the upcoming and booming economies outside the US.

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Historically, the peaks of the Black Mountains, including Mt. Mitchell, were covered with a Spruce-Fir forest, with Red Spruce trees at the margins around and above 4000 feet, with more Frasier Fir trees at the peaks.

Adelgids attack Frasier Firs. The "New trees" that are "Immune to the effects of the Adelgid" are all Spruces. The Frasier Firs are, essentially, gone from the ecosystem. But it isn't just the firs that are disappearing - many Spruce trees were dying before they could reach maturity. Many speculate that this is a result of the acidic clouds that engulf Mitchell 8 out of every 10 days all year long, and indeed evidence seems to indicate this is the case. Acidic clouds and pollution may even have played a role in the disappearance of Frasier Firs as well. We don't know and probably never will.

Mount Mitchell is not fixed. The ecosystem has been permanently and irreparably altered. And you're right that acid rain (or, more appropriately, acid fog) is not the only cause, but the bugs aren't the only problem, either.

I had forgotten about this until today. I knew someone would post a response to challenge it, but still I forgot. You are correct about the Frasiers. The tiny bugs are an introduced species from Overseas, and the North American plants have no immunity to them. There is hope that the Frasiers of the South will evolve an immunity as well, and they are not completely gone. According to a 2005 article in National Geographic, 90 to 95% have been destroyed. That means 5 to 10% still survive. According to the info I have (and yes I saw it with my own eyes, there were new FRASER trees coming up, and on Mt Rogers, the trees are unaffected, and they are trying to develop resistant strains. But they may not survive the changes wrought by the adelgid. It does not look good for the Frasier, however, I learned that the those trees in the Smokies are not going to survive anyway, because the earth's climate during the last ice age made them prominent in the south, but now that earth is heating up between ice ages, they will slowly disappear anyway. There is no way to stop it or change it. When we spoke to the experts and the US Forestry Service, who know more about the subject than you or I, no mention was made of "acid" rain, which is a scare tactic of the Eco-Prophet ranting Marxist environmentalists, and not based on actual science and observed facts. The Adelgid's saliva is toxic to the trees, and the trees try to protect themselves form the bugs by growing thicker cells, which inhibits the transfer of nutrients and water, and starves the trees. I hate to see them go too, but mother nature is the boss, not humans, and she has caused many more changes than humans have. As I said, I have seen it, studied it, and have a college degree in it. I do know the subject, and I heard all the theories about "acid" rain (which is naturally acidic). It is also a myth that "acid" destroys vegetation. Sulpher and Nitrogen are natural components of plants and act as nutrients.

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naturally those of us who come to this forum are urbanists so bulldozing the environment is against the principles we ascribe to. North Carolina is a beautiful state but don't let corporate interests do what ever they want when it comes to land use simply for profit.

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