FSU Master Plan

[stjoe]

http://www.vpfa.fsu.edu/sua/CampusMasterPlan.html

[gibson]

http://www.vpfa.fsu.edu/sua/CampusMasterPlan.html

st. joe, i have been reading post on the village, symphony, and general issues facing f.s.u. and the master plan.

how do you see all this playing out? yes they are going to expand to the southwest campus, but how do you see them trying to expand the main campus to the fringes of gaines and macomb?

thanks

g

[stjoe]

st. joe, i have been reading post on the village, symphony, and general issues facing f.s.u. and the master plan.

how do you see all this playing out? yes they are going to expand to the southwest campus, but how do you see them trying to expand the main campus to the fringes of gaines and macomb?

thanks

g

Gibson,

I definitely think FSU will, now in our lifetime? I don't know.

The state rarely provides FSU money for land acquisition. When they do, it is a drop in the bucket. Now much of that is because land is expensive near campus. There is about 150 acres that does not belong to FSU within the area you described which is also called the "beltway" sometimes. Just guessing what 150 acres within this beltway costs.....general estimate would be WELL over 100 Million dollars.

The other MAJOR state issue is the process the state forces FSU to use to buy property. It basically is the equivalent to tying FSU's hands behind it's back in a fight and sending them into the ring. It makes it near impossible and incredibly time and resource demanding.

Also, the last time the state gave FSU a good sum of money for land acquisition, land owners read about it and basically raised there prices to the point of gouging, so FSU put a hold on the process.

It will cherry pick and in the end, the few non FSU spots will get taken with eminent domain, but again, we are a WAYS off from there.

There are some pieces for sale right now near Gaines that I am surprised FSU hasn't bought yet. But again, their hands are tied. They will get there, but it will take a while

[gibson]

Gibson,

I definitely think FSU will, now in our lifetime? I don't know.

The state rarely provides FSU money for land acquisition. When they do, it is a drop in the bucket. Now much of that is because land is expensive near campus. There is about 150 acres that does not belong to FSU within the area you described which is also called the "beltway" sometimes. Just guessing what 150 acres within this beltway costs.....general estimate would be WELL over 100 Million dollars.

The other MAJOR state issue is the process the state forces FSU to use to buy property. It basically is the equivalent to tying FSU's hands behind it's back in a fight and sending them into the ring. It makes it near impossible and incredibly time and resource demanding.

Also, the last time the state gave FSU a good sum of money for land acquisition, land owners read about it and basically raised there prices to the point of gouging, so FSU put a hold on the process.

It will cherry pick and in the end, the few non FSU spots will get taken with eminent domain, but again, we are a WAYS off from there.

There are some pieces for sale right now near Gaines that I am surprised FSU hasn't bought yet. But again, their hands are tied. They will get there, but it will take a while

thanks st. joe, i read that university of floirda has around 2000 acres. that is enough to meet the forcasted future enrollement. why is the state tying fsu's hands if they are telling the school, hey you are going to have 60 thousand students coming in? also how do you see the the symphony and the village playing out. are they serious about building or are they just trying to get as much from fsu as they can?

your comments are always appreciated

g

[poonther]

A problem I have w/all this waiting for FSU to buy the property that surrounds it is that these areas are becoming a dump. Yeah they were kind of slums before, but now it seems the areas are getting much worse than when I moved here. Take a ride down P'cola, College and St. Augustine and it's a disgrace. I'm not sure how to solve this problem except for COT to strictly enforce the codes. It just seems that the area is stagnet and investors are just waiting on FSU to sloooooooowly get its money to buy their land at super high prices. Without changes in the legislature, how will this problem ever be solved. It's embarrassing.

[gibson]

A problem I have w/all this waiting for FSU to buy the property that surrounds it is that these areas are becoming a dump. Yeah they were kind of slums before, but now it seems the areas are getting much worse than when I moved here. Take a ride down P'cola, College and St. Augustine and it's a disgrace. I'm not sure how to solve this problem except for COT to strictly enforce the codes. It just seems that the area is stagnet and investors are just waiting on FSU to sloooooooowly get its money to buy their land at super high prices. Without changes in the legislature, how will this problem ever be solved. It's embarrassing.

they have not been funded by the legislature in three years. that is pathetic. they are saying get ready for the 60 thousand students, but have not funded it for campus growth.

[poonther]

^ Yeah but they are giving us the tax-free shopping week and that's waaayyy more important. (Read sarcasm here.) Besides they are more worried about pandering to the AARP which most of their members won't even be on this planet in 15 years than they are to educating FL's future. But that's a whole other rant....Still the question is...what to do about it in the mean time?????

[gibson]

^ Yeah but they are giving us the tax-free shopping week and that's waaayyy more important. (Read sarcasm here.) Besides they are more worried about pandering to the AARP which most of their members won't even be on this planet in 15 years than they are to educating FL's future. But that's a whole other rant....Still the question is...what to do about it in the mean time?????

write the governor and the legislature.....well put...lets go shopping

[csmurphy8885]

I still see the southside of caampus as prime residential area's either private or by the school. Close options = less car traffic, solving a lot of the campus's issues. Not to mention the boost to gaines. I would expect developers of student housing to afford these properties and build them up into a dense populous of renting students.

[stjoe]

I still see the southside of caampus as prime residential area's either private or by the school. Close options = less car traffic, solving a lot of the campus's issues. Not to mention the boost to gaines. I would expect developers of student housing to afford these properties and build them up into a dense populous of renting students.

I think Gaines Street property might be getting too expensive for low rent student housing. I am not sure.

[csmurphy8885]

high density=lower rent in my head... we are spreading the student body out too far

Low rent might not be required either. the convenience wuold be worth a parents money, if it were for rent instead of a car.

[Relient J]

I think two things that would help FSU get out of its problem are a.) accept less students. Just because 60,000 students want to come to FSU, doesn't mean FSU should have to take them all. b.) Build higher. As I've said in this forum many times before, FSU needs to build up more. More buildings as tall as Bellamy and Dittmer are needed, and that new dining facility by Stone should have been incorporated into a taller building rather than exist as a standalone.

[gibson]

I think two things that would help FSU get out of its problem are a.) accept less students. Just because 60,000 students want to come to FSU, doesn't mean FSU should have to take them all. b.) Build higher. As I've said in this forum many times before, FSU needs to build up more. More buildings as tall as Bellamy and Dittmer are needed, and that new dining facility by Stone should have been incorporated into a taller building rather than exist as a standalone.

when the florida dept. of education says get ready for a 60k student body, i think no is the wrong answer. write the governor and your local legs and tell the to make education a priority and to fund fsu's land acquistion program. the governor vetoed it last year. fsu has the second smallest campus in the state.....they need da money for land so they can grow...

I think Gaines Street property might be getting too expensive for low rent student housing. I am not sure.

the area between the stadium and southwest campus is logical for student housing.....you could just ride a bike or take a bus to school....

g

[stjoe]

high density=lower rent in my head... we are spreading the student body out too far

Having lived near Tokyo and New York City, I can tell you that is not necessarily true.

I think two things that would help FSU get out of its problem are a.) accept less students. Just because 60,000 students want to come to FSU, doesn't mean FSU should have to take them all. b.) Build higher.

FSU doesn't get to make the decision on how many students it takes. It is made by the people who control the $$$$$. The state legislature.

the area between the stadium and southwest campus is logical for student housing.....you could just ride a bike or take a bus to school....

g

If it is logical. Why isn't there student housing there? Believe me, if there is money to be made there, developers will build it. But they aren't. My guess is the property is too expensive to house students. We will see in the future.

The ORIGINAL mission of the Gaines Street Renovation was to make Gaines Street a DESTINATION AREA. A place like Franklin Street at Chapel Hill for example. Does ANYONE think that is happening now?

[gibson]

Having lived near Tokyo and New York City, I can tell you that is not necessarily true.

FSU doesn't get to make the decision on how many students it takes. It is made by the people who control the $$$$$. The state legislature.

If it is logical. Why isn't there student housing there? Believe me, if there is money to be made there, developers will build it. But they aren't. My guess is the property is too expensive to house students. We will see in the future.

The ORIGINAL mission of the Gaines Street Renovation was to make Gaines Street a DESTINATION AREA. A place like Franklin Street at Chapel Hill for example. Does ANYONE think that is happening now?

good question i do not know the prices there, but some areas are pretty rough......after the attempt in gaines street area......the streetscape should be improved from the stadium out to orange ave, and then maybe the development might come.......maybe?

g

[Relient J]

write the governor and your local legs and tell the to make education a priority and to fund fsu's land acquistion program.

As I'm now a Tennessee resident and citizen it's no longer my place to write the governor and legislature of the State of Florida regarding FSU's dilemma. Besides, I'm not convinced that purchase of more land is necessarily the best answer to FSU's problem.

[gibson]

As I'm now a Tennessee resident and citizen it's no longer my place to write the governor and legislature of the State of Florida regarding FSU's dilemma. Besides, I'm not convinced that purchase of more land is necessarily the best answer to FSU's problem.

write them anyway......what is the best answer to the land dilemma? build up? harvard is expanding thier campus across the river and raising 5 billion in the process. land acquisition is being sought by other state unversities in florida. fsu is already at a disadvantage with second smallest campus....where you going to put and park those 60k? build up yes, but beyond that...

g

[Florida]

What if there was no land to purchase?? What if FSU were in a city like Chicago surrounded by a downtown, with no room to grow, would it then come to its senses and build tall instead of wide? When room is scarce, I've always been told to stack things?!!

[gibson]

What if there was no land to purchase?? What if FSU were in a city like Chicago surrounded by a downtown, with no room to grow, would it then come to its senses and build tall instead of wide? When room is scarce, I've always been told to stack things?!!

there is always land to purchase, and fsu is in tallahassee....i know you posed a hypothetical but o.k. , anyhow, instead of chicago lets use boston, harvard did not have any room to grow so what are they doing acquiring land.....spend the money and acquire land, get the state to fund the master plan.....it will make the community and the state better.....acquire it and they will come...

g

[csmurphy8885]

no more land... build up... effecient land use is enviromental practical aswell as financially. Tulane and LSU would be exciting schools to go to. Urbanize Campus, keep the trees, the location is supurb... everything is here - use it better. FSU doesnt appreciate imo, simple. GIVEME GIVEME

[Relient J]

write them anyway......what is the best answer to the land dilemma? build up? harvard is expanding thier campus across the river and raising 5 billion in the process. land acquisition is being sought by other state unversities in florida. fsu is already at a disadvantage with second smallest campus....where you going to put and park those 60k? build up yes, but beyond that...

g

To be honest with you as interested as I am in Tallahassee's future, FSU's land problem isn't as important to me here in Tennessee as it rightly is to those of you right there in the community. I honestly feel that limitting students and growing upward, not outward is the best solution.

Also, just because other Florida universities are solving their growth requirements a certain way doesn't mean its best for FSU. I like the phrase csmurphy used: "efficient land use." What good is it for FSU to acuire more land if they're not going to use it efficiently.

I apologize for conitnuing to return to this example, but I think it's a good illustration of what I mean: It was a waste of land in my opinion for FSU to build that dining facility next to the Stone Building. That should have been incorporated into a much higher building.

While I'm ranting about FSU, why couldn't the university have had architechural guidelines back in the day? FSU is a hodgepodge of greatly differing architechtural styles. I'll admit though that they've addressed this problem with all of the recent buildings they've built.

[gibson]

To be honest with you as interested as I am in Tallahassee's future, FSU's land problem isn't as important to me here in Tennessee as it rightly is to those of you right there in the community. I honestly feel that limitting students and growing upward, not outward is the best solution.

Also, just because other Florida universities are solving their growth requirements a certain way doesn't mean its best for FSU. I like the phrase csmurphy used: "efficient land use." What good is it for FSU to acuire more land if they're not going to use it efficiently.

I apologize for conitnuing to return to this example, but I think it's a good illustration of what I mean: It was a waste of land in my opinion for FSU to build that dining facility next to the Stone Building. That should have been incorporated into a much higher building.

While I'm ranting about FSU, why couldn't the university have had architechural guidelines back in the day? FSU is a hodgepodge of greatly differing architechtural styles. I'll admit though that they've addressed this problem with all of the recent buildings they've built.

relient j, when the state of florida tells you to get ready for 60 k students in the future you don't say no. it is a public institution serving the state's interest. with regard to land use issues we just disagree. my point is this in fsu's eyes it is the best thing, they have planners and a paid staff to research these issues. i am not as well versed on this issue as i would like to be but, i have seen the master plan like many people on this board and not only do i see their vision and believe it is beautiful, but it will also add nicely to the community, gaines st. , macomb, college and university, lake bradford, orange ave. etc.. i do believe it is necessary. build up all you want, but there is something to be said for space....it is just plain nice.....i lived in nyc for three years, seoul korea for 5, and yes these are extreme examples, however green is good, open green space even better....all set amongst a continual archictectural theme will attract the brightest students and the best scholars, which will have a trickle down effect on the local economy making it better...

g

[Relient J]

I'm not disputing FSU's mandate to obey the Florida legislature. I'm simply offering what I think the best solution to their land problem is, and I stand by my ideas. I realize FSU has a paid staff that looks into these issues, but after all, aren't we all here to (among other things) share our ideas for the improving Tallahassee?

I understand your desire to increase the green spaces around campus. I got my BA from a college that sat on 28,000 acres and had only about 2000 students. It was beautiful! However, FSU is an urban campus, and the land issues are trickier. I hope FSU does continue to incorporate green spaces into their master plan, but I think this can be accomplished in part by building up and not out. If you concentrate on building five story buildings and rejecting proposals for two story buildings you'll have more land available on campus for green areas.

[gibson]

I'm not disputing FSU's mandate to obey the Florida legislature. I'm simply offering what I think the best solution to their land problem is, and I stand by my ideas. I realize FSU has a paid staff that looks into these issues, but after all, aren't we all here to (among other things) share our ideas for the improving Tallahassee?

I understand your desire to increase the green spaces around campus. I got my BA from a college that sat on 28,000 acres and had only about 2000 students. It was beautiful! However, FSU is an urban campus, and the land issues are trickier. I hope FSU does continue to incorporate green spaces into their master plan, but I think this can be accomplished in part by building up and not out. If you concentrate on building five story buildings and rejecting proposals for two story buildings you'll have more land available on campus for green areas.

totally agree about sharing ideas and improving the community. 2000 students and 28000 acres.....the equals shangri la for fsu.....if i may, where did you go to school?

i am going to meet with the fsu foundation next week and i believe i will be going to the urban planning school or dept. to check out more of fsu's future plans....let you know what i see from the war room....

exchange of ideas good...

g

[Relient J]

^ I went to Berry College, which is just outside of Rome, Georgia in the Appalachian foothills. The deer on campus outnumber the students at least 7 to 1!

http://www.berry.edu/

Before transfering to Berry I got my AA from TCC. Two very different schools, but I enjoyed them both!