Greensboro's Downtown Population

[jervais]

What do you think Greensboro's downtown pop. will be in 3 years 4000? 6000? or more? What do you think is a good downtown population to sustain an active 24/7 Downtown.

[blburton]

Well it depends more on what is available downtown. You could have a sleepy downtown at night with a population of 10000 if there were nothing there - would never happen b/c it would defeat the purpose of living there. On the other hand, you could have a downtown jumping at 4am with a population of 2000 if there are enough business that appeal to people there and the mix of people is just that varied. For Greensboro, keeping the clubs/bars open until 3am, putting a couple of (creatively designed) 24 hour grocery/drug/big box retailers (kroger, walgreens, home depot, kohls, target, etc) downtown, then finally spreading these fairly well within the central area of downtown (area bordered by murrow on the east, fisher on the north, smith on the west, and lee on the south) should sustain an active downtown core in Greensboro.

So in my opinion..... it's not necessarily about the population..... but business brings people which brings business, etc.

What do you think?

What do you think Greensboro's downtown pop. will be in 3 years 4000? 6000? or more? What do you think is a good downtown population to sustain an active 24/7 Downtown.

[blburton]

**central downtown area bounded on the north by smith and fisher, then on the west by spring st. which turns into freeman mill rd. my bad

Well it depends more on what is available downtown. You could have a sleepy downtown at night with a population of 10000 if there were nothing there - would never happen b/c it would defeat the purpose of living there. On the other hand, you could have a downtown jumping at 4am with a population of 2000 if there are enough business that appeal to people there and the mix of people is just that varied. For Greensboro, keeping the clubs/bars open until 3am, putting a couple of (creatively designed) 24 hour grocery/drug/big box retailers (kroger, walgreens, home depot, kohls, target, etc) downtown, then finally spreading these fairly well within the central area of downtown (area bordered by murrow on the east, fisher on the north, smith on the west, and lee on the south) should sustain an active downtown core in Greensboro.

So in my opinion..... it's not necessarily about the population..... but business brings people which brings business, etc.

What do you think?

[jervais]

I do think that what a downtown has to offer plays a role in what kinds of activity goes on in downtown.

[cityboi]

With the explosive growth with new downtown condos and townhomes, we should se a big population growth downtown in the upcoming years. The old Wachovia Building will have over 100 apartments/condos and would be 3 times that number if the second tower is built. Bellemeade Village will have over 300 condos and townhomes. The South Elm/Lee Street proposal has over 300 condos and townhomes and Southside is continuing to build more and more townhomes, exceeding the number of units in the origional plan for Southide. There are also other condo an townhome projects under construction or on the drawing board scattered throughout downtown. Anothor thing that will increase the downtown population is the planned expansion of the central business district that will include parts of historic residential neighborhoods surrounding downtown. the more residential downtown has, the more services and entertainment options will come. We should see an increase in retail, restaurants, new nightclubs and other entertainment as the population increases. Downtown Greensboro after hours is already like a mini-Atlanta with bumper to bumper traffic after midnight and long nightclub lines. Just imagine what downtown will be like 10 years from now.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

I would wonder though, how many of these units are designed to be family friendly....for families of all ages and sizes. Are any of the units being built to accommodate a family of four, or five? (assuming these families do not have any desire to have a house with land) Are the units being built with private amenities found in a residential area such as a pool, tennis courts or gym equipment as one might find within say a subdivision? What is being done to develop the schools that these units would fall under? Are there downtown private school options or will those families continue to have to commute outside of the downtown area and then back to the downtown area to work? While it may be appealing for a single or young couple, what sustains a community are it's families that stay in the areas, being able to live there completely without having to move later because the school district isnt up to par...or there isnt child care within a reasonable distance. What about security and police concerns? Can the city handle the extra influx of residents 24/7? If you really want downtown to bloom with a population, you have to consider that those that move there will eventually just leave as they grow older and have families....this will not result in sustained growth and a downtown population, but a fad living situation, only to be met with realities in the future as their situations change and their families grow.

[cityboi]

Actually there is a private school in downtown Greensboro and a public school is being planned for the northwestern edge of downtown. The condos and townhome being built are for both couples and families. Many of the condo units in Bellemeade Village will have 3 to 4 bedrooms with each bedroom having its own bathroom, living room, dining room and kitchen. THe townhomes nad single family homes are large enough for families as well. So there is something for everyone. As for community pools and gyms, that is not need because there is a new YMCA downtown. It has a pool as well as fitness facilties for the public for just a small membership fee. There is also a daycare downtown. Families would not have to walk very far in taking their children to the library or Childrens Museum. Downtown is very family friendly and is also a hot spot for singles.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

Actually there is a private school in downtown Greensboro and a public school is being planned for the northwestern edge of downtown. The condos and townhome being built are for both couples and families. Many of the condo units in Bellemeade Village will have 3 to 4 bedrooms with each bedroom having its own bathroom, living room, dining room and kitchen. THe townhomes nad single family homes are large enough for families as well. So there is something for everyone. As for community pools and gyms, that is not need because there is a new YMCA downtown. It has a pool as well as fitness facilties for the public for just a small membership fee. There is also a daycare downtown. Families would not have to walk very far in taking their children to the library or Childrens Museum. Downtown is very family friendly and is also a hot spot for singles.

"A" private school and "A" public school probably would not be enough.(especially given that K-12 would need to be provided) One of the points being different philosophies in learning as well as the pull that different magnet schools have around the county. "A" Daycare wouldnt be enough either. It would take multiple schools and daycares of various means if part of the whole appeal is to cut down on folks commuting in and out of town...living and working there daily. The offerings at these schools would need to be unique enough to draw the families to want to live in a community as you are speaking of.

It is good to know that there is thought into giving different units more than just a couple of bedrooms. From what we see in new housing though, it might take more than just three or four bedrooms, a living room dining and kitchen. Other rooms might be appealing to families if you are really going to set these units up next to what a family can have in a house with land in a subdivision.

Not everyone is going to want to go to the Y, that is why I asked if any of them had private amenities(or plans for such). I am not down on the Y, just that many folks want the privacy that a pool and gym within their own building could provide just like they might have if they lived in a subdivision.

I have been downtown and I like the direction it has taken with the children's museum and the library all being next to one another over the past several years, adding to the historical museum, cultural arts center and Y. There still is in my opinion a lot...a whole LOT more that would be needed to truely set the downtown area up next to subdivisions if you truely hope to counter sprawl and commuters. I do not say it couldnt happen-just that as a mother of teens....I see things from perhaps a different perspective than many who are just looking for 24/7 downtowns....nightlife and all.

[Eastwestrob]

What do you think Greensboro's downtown pop. will be in 3 years 4000? 6000? or more? What do you think is a good downtown population to sustain an active 24/7 Downtown.

Don't know what it will be in 3 years but I would say a good active 24/7 downtown may take about 10,000-15,000

[jervais]

What's G'boro DT pop now?

[blburton]

I see what you're saying.... but I almost think that even a mini-Atlanta is an understatement. I would call Charlotte a "mini-Atlanta". Reason being is that nightlife is only big on Friday and Saturday nights between like 11pm and 2am. I guess you could liken Greensboro to a mini-Charlotte.

Overall, I really wonder about Greensboro's downtown. The city's population is nearing 240,000 (metro area ~1.5 million) and downtown's skyscrapers are scarce.... you pass through the area in about 30 seconds if you don't run into many lights. On the other hand, I was passing through Richmond today (city of ~200K, metro ~1 million) and downtown had a huge presence from miles away.... they had no super huge 40, 50, 60 story buildings, but they had probably 3-4 times the amount of 20-30 story buildings Greensboro's downtown area does.... spread out over probably 2 time the amount of land. One thing though is that Richmond much older than Greensboro, so thats one thing to take into account, but still... What is going on??

Downtown Greensboro after hours is already like a mini-Atlanta with bumper to bumper traffic after midnight and long nightclub lines. Just imagine what downtown will be like 10 years from now.

[triadguy37]

I see what you're saying.... but I almost think that even a mini-Atlanta is an understatement. I would call Charlotte a "mini-Atlanta". Reason being is that nightlife is only big on Friday and Saturday nights between like 11pm and 2am. I guess you could liken Greensboro to a mini-Charlotte.

Overall, I really wonder about Greensboro's downtown. The city's population is nearing 240,000 (metro area ~1.5 million) and downtown's skyscrapers are scarce.... you pass through the area in about 30 seconds if you don't run into many lights. On the other hand, I was passing through Richmond today (city of ~200K, metro ~1 million) and downtown had a huge presence from miles away.... they had no super huge 40, 50, 60 story buildings, but they had probably 3-4 times the amount of 20-30 story buildings Greensboro's downtown area does.... spread out over probably 2 time the amount of land. One thing though is that Richmond much older than Greensboro, so thats one thing to take into account, but still... What is going on??

Downtown Greensboro after hours is already like a mini-Atlanta with bumper to bumper traffic after midnight and long nightclub lines. Just imagine what downtown will be like 10 years from now.

I agree, Winston-Salem's downtown has a much greater presence than Greensboro's downtown. I don't ever see downtown Greensboro as being a big business, financial center like Charlotte or Winston-Salem because of its location. If it were along the interstate it would probably be larger, but because it is situated so far out, I believe this is why we have so much sprawl. I see downtown Greensboro as becoming mostly residential, arts and entertainment, and maybe some shopping, but I don't believe it has a future of being a major downtown like Winston has with the new Piedmont Triad Research Park going in over the next 10 to 20 years. I my opinon the city has made some bad decisions over the years by not encouraging downtown growth and alowing so much sprawl within the City of Greensboro.

[cityboi]

I agree, Winston-Salem's downtown has a much greater presence than Greensboro's downtown. I don't ever see downtown Greensboro as being a big business, financial center like Charlotte or Winston-Salem because of its location. If it were along the interstate it would probably be larger, but because it is situated so far out, I believe this is why we have so much sprawl. I see downtown Greensboro as becoming mostly residential, arts and entertainment, and maybe some shopping, but I don't believe it has a future of being a major downtown like Winston has with the new Piedmont Triad Research Park going in over the next 10 to 20 years. I my opinon the city has made some bad decisions over the years by not encouraging downtown growth and alowing so much sprawl within the City of Greensboro.

For years what has contributed to Winston-Salem having a strong business core is its location at a major freeway intersection. There are no downtown freeways in Greensboro. Winston-Salem's banking industry is another reason. However the loss of Wachovia has affected Winston-Salems downtown but the research park will end up bring more office workers downtown to offset any loss. I agree, I think Greensboro's downtown will be more entertainment and residentially oriented than Winston-Salem. But you have to look at the big picture. The residential will help spur more office develpoment downtown. It may take a while because right now the economy isnt looking to hot any way but Greensboro will get there. The thing that will bring commerce back to downtown is the same thing that put Greensboro on the map in the first place and thats the railroad. The Amtrack station just opened downtown and as high speed raill and regional rail come to the Triad, we will see even more rapid business growth in downtown Greensboro. But I do think the Koury Convention Center should hade been built downtown. Greensboro is a major regional convention city and it would have done great thing for downtown and mutually for the convention center. Its alot easier to attract conventions to a facility that has retail, restaurants, nightclubs and museums all within walking distance becasue believe it or not, convention planners do look at things like that. At the Koury, you can walk to the mall but you have to get in your car to get to restaurants nights clubs and museums. There would have been more tourist foot traffic in downtown Greensboro if the convention center had been built downtown. Thats good for museums such as the planned International Civil Rights Museum and lets hope planners of the ACC Hall of Fame will change their minds about building a hall of fame next to the coliseum and instead build it downtown. To me its a no brainer to build something like that downtown. The best place for it is somewhere near First Horizon Ballpark. A hall of fame there would help secure the ACC Mens College Baseball Tournament and some NCAA baseball games for Greensboro.

[Noneck_08]

I agree with everything you guys said. But now I'm gonna drop you. Call me crazy but I think Wal-mart needs to invest. They are building urban stores in ATL and NYC, so why not here? Love it or hate it, America and NC loves wal-mart. I mean what town dosen't have one. Wal-mart has these neighboorhood market stores. I have never been in one, but I know that they are small. Smaller than even a regular wal-mart(non-supercenter). They would be easy to move into an urban enviorment and would attract alot of people downtown. Alot of people who live in downtown still have to travel to the burbs to shop. So why not bring it to them. People love wally world and if one was downtown. They would probley come down, just because it's there and there are clubs, resterants, etc. around. Who would need a mall then. I could see them renovated a old warehouse or something and putting one in. They probley would only need one floor too. Charlotte, Greensboro and Columbia are cities with downtowns I could see one in. Just a thought.

[teshadoh]

Going by the above definition of downtown:

**central downtown area bounded on the north by smith and fisher, then on the west by spring st. which turns into freeman mill rd.

I then assumed the other bounding streets to be Lee to the south & Murrow Blvd to the east.

The 2000 census block population was 719.

Estimated 2004 census block group population (developed by a commercial source, not the census) is hard to determine an accurate boundary. So selecting one block group that MOSTLY covers this area, the 2004 estimated population is 508, down from 550 in 2000. Again - that isn't a census source & it is just an estimate, hard to get a real accurate number until the 2010 census.

[cityboi]

Going by the above definition of downtown:

**central downtown area bounded on the north by smith and fisher, then on the west by spring st. which turns into freeman mill rd.

I then assumed the other bounding streets to be Lee to the south & Murrow Blvd to the east.

The 2000 census block population was 719.

Estimated 2004 census block group population (developed by a commercial source, not the census) is hard to determine an accurate boundary. So selecting one block group that MOSTLY covers this area, the 2004 estimated population is 508, down from 550 in 2000. Again - that isn't a census source & it is just an estimate, hard to get a real accurate number until the 2010 census.

true, and it looks like the business district will expand so that should alter figures as well.