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How does SEPTA compare to other cities?


UrbaniDesDev

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This is the story I was referring to and it mentions this line coming from Norristown, which is why I thought it might have been the R6. It seems to be from Norristown via Lansdale, or at least it will be eventually.

(AP) DOYLESTOWN, PA Lawmakers say a return of passenger rail service from Norristown in Montgomery County to Shelly in Bucks County would ease traffic congestion in the area.

Congressman Mike Fitzpatrick presented a 300-thousand dollar check yesterday to state Senator Rob Wonderling and to William Rickett, the director of the Bucks County Transportation Management Association, to determine what it would cost to restore commuter rail service.

Phase One of the project would be a 21-mile Shelly-to-Lansdale line and Phase Two an eleven-mile extension from Lansdale to Norristown. An initial study by Philadelphia-based transit planning specialist Gannett Fleming indicated a cost of about 98 (m) million dollars.

Wonderling says the goal is to restore service in five to seven years.

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This is the story I was referring to and it mentions this line coming from Norristown, which is why I thought it might have been the R6. It seems to be from Norristown via Lansdale, or at least it will be eventually.

Interesting. This is the first time I heard about this proposal. I think this is a different line from teh Quakertown line though since historically the Quakertown Line branched off of the Doylestown line - or more correctly the Doylestown line branched off of the Quakertown Line and the Quakertown Line once extended to the Lehigh Valley. I never heard of this Shelly line. Where is Shelly?

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  • 6 months later...

What are the most affordable but safe neighborhoods in Philadelphia that would be convenient to live in if I commuted on SEPTA to Ferry Avenue in Camden for work. I wouldn't want to live in Camden, only in Philadelphia. I don't wan't too long of a commute on SEPTA and wouldn't want to have to transfer more than once. Could someone who is real familiar with Philly give me some guidelines, please?

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  • 2 months later...

I am planning my first trip to Philadephia next year, and naturally my transit options from the airport and around the city have come up. I knew about SEPTA's existance, but nothing in depth, so when I checked out the website I was rather dissapointed. There is a connection to the airport, and there is so much regional rail coverage in the Philadelphia metro, but where is the subway? I feel like Atlanta has about the same level of coverage in terms of subway lines- though to Philly's credit the regional rail coverage is far superior to anything Atlanta could ever wish for. It seems as though as long as I want to stay within a few block of Market St I am fine, but what if I want to go somewhere else? What is your take on the busses in Philadelphia?

This topic has been an interesting read. Im reading more and more that Philadelphia is 'corrupt' but I have yet to see what the corrupt happenings are. Same goes for SEPTA. Any thoughts there?

One final question- do the subway lines only run within the City itself? It looks like that might be the case.

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  • 1 month later...
Interesting. This is the first time I heard about this proposal. I think this is a different line from teh Quakertown line though since historically the Quakertown Line branched off of the Doylestown line - or more correctly the Doylestown line branched off of the Quakertown Line and the Quakertown Line once extended to the Lehigh Valley. I never heard of this Shelly line. Where is Shelly?
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SEPTA is disgusting and it won't get any better until the upper levels of the organization change their ways. The way I understand it, the board in charge consists of one representative from each county in the Philadelphia area. That may seem fair on paper, but it really means that it has 4 suburban county reps and only one from Philadelphia County aka the City of Philadelphia. The suburbs are hogging the funding and strangling out any improvements to projects that don't benefit them directly. That is why our subway system hasn't seen a major renovation for thirty years. and it smells like feces... :sick:

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For starters, it would be nice if the existing lines/routes joined better. Like why can't PATCO actually pull into a SEPTA station for easier transfers? Or why can't the Market-Frankfurt line be physically accessible from (within) 30th St station? Why has Amtrak completely abandoned its North Philadelphia station? Why is the Ben Franklin bridge the only bridge south of Trenton that mass transit uses to get to PA? I do like the River Line in SJ...

The Metro in DC (and Paris) are far better than SEPTA.

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  • 8 months later...
As for SEPTA, it's the WORST transit agency if not in the US, in the WORLD, PERIOD!!! I'm just sick of all the excuses I keep on hearing about how they won't extend to Reading because the tracks west of Norristown isn't electrified, no service to the Lehigh Valley (where at least 30% of it's residents commute to Phila), the lack of NJT commuter train service to SJ, only two subway lines in the sixth largest city in America, no further subway extensions in Phila (look at Boston, Chicago, DC, LA, Miami, Dallas, Houston, St Louis, SF, and even Atlanta. The difference is that they're all trying to expand their mass transit systems while Phila is stuck in the dark ages). It's very frustrating to live in such an urban city like Phila, but have a lack of coverage in this city, to put it in shorter words.
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As origianlly planned, Philadelphia was supposed to have a much larger subway. The PATCO line in Center City was meant to be a subway loop around the business district with tunnels running under Arch and 17th (which is why there are subway grates on Arch Street). Also, there was supposed to be branches of the Broad Street Line going up to NE Philly along the Roosevelt Boulevard (there was a built but unused subway station under the old Sears) and along Henry Ave. (the Henry Ave. bridge over Lincoln Drive has a second level underneath the roadway for the unbuilt subway). Then there was supposed to be a line running along Woodland Ave. The problem was that after WWII, ridership on the subway system declined dramatically (mostly due to declining ridership on the Broad Street Line - the Market/Frankford has done well) and that has cuased it to be viewed more as a white elephant than as something that should be expanded.

The other problem with the subway, of course, is that, unlike DC, Atlanta, and a few other places, the subway doesn't extend to the suburbs. In many ways, it doesn't need to since that's the territory of regional rail. However, because it doesn't extend to the suburbs, it doesn't extend to the high growth areas which would demand the subway. Instead, it traverses through areas like West and NOrth Philly that have seen nothing but population decline in recent decades.

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  • 6 months later...
This is incorrect. The worst transit agencies in the world are:

1) D-Dot (Detroit)

2) SMART (Detroit suburbs)

Yes, they have two different authorities for city and suburbs which means some bus lines are redudant and others do not exist, plus it obviously means crazy transfers in various places. Also, certain suburbs have "opted out" of the system and have no service at all.

The only rail service they have is the People Mover, a small downtown loop operated by a third organization (Detroit Transit Company). Fortunately, there are people advocating for an expansion of rail transit - both light rail and commuter, but it's going to be a long haul.

Be thankful for what you have, Philly!

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  • 8 months later...

Hi I have lived in Philadelphia for the past 3 years, before that I lived in Seattle and New York City. This topic is one that caught my attention because since I have lived here I have felt the biggest issue with this city is its archaic transit system. While it isnt as bad as Seattle, which currently uses a system of underground buses and a 2 stop monorail that costs 4 dollars. It is also not expanding like Seattle's system, it seems there has been no improvement in anything dealing with SEPTA since the 1980's. For example you need exactly $2 cash to ride, there is no way around this short of tokens(honestly who uses tokens anymore) and if you think you can buy a ticket using a debit/ credit card forget it. Also everyone seems to forget that West Philadelphia has a somewhat expansive subway to surface line that is horribly under funded and in need of an upgrade. As for the Subway lines that form a glorified t shape, good luck efficiently using them if you do not live in a 4 block radius of Market or Broad st. Philadelphia seems to be going in the direction of an auto based city which is crazy if you ask me, the lack of thouroughfares and horrible parking problem makes this city prime for an expansive mass transit system. That being said the city is facing huge growth potential in the future, if we want this to come to fruition were gonna have to do better then a mass transit authority that is only second worst to the one in Detroit. I dont post on these boards much instead i mostly scan them for information but this issue is one that I have been thinking about a lot recently. IMO almost anyone could run SEPTA better then SEPTA does.

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  • 4 weeks later...
What do you mean "left out"??? North Jersey is well-connected by the Path and NJ Transit commuter trains. South Jersey, although there's a major lack of coverage, has the Patco system and the Atlantic City line. Personally, there should be more coverage on the PATCO system to Woodbury, Deptford, Cherry Hill, and Maple Shade, and NJT coverage to Cumberland County, Salem County, Jersey Shore towns (Ocean City, Cape May, Toms River, etc., and Burlington County). You're right about the quote in bold. Unfortunately, the Delaware Valley region is way more separated than up in NYC.

As for SEPTA, it's the WORST transit agency if not in the US, in the WORLD, PERIOD!!! I'm just sick of all the excuses I keep on hearing about how they won't extend to Reading because the tracks west of Norristown isn't electrified, no service to the Lehigh Valley (where at least 30% of it's residents commute to Phila), the lack of NJT commuter train service to SJ, only two subway lines in the sixth largest city in America, no further subway extensions in Phila (look at Boston, Chicago, DC, LA, Miami, Dallas, Houston, St Louis, SF, and even Atlanta. The difference is that they're all trying to expand their mass transit systems while Phila is stuck in the dark ages). It's very frustrating to live in such an urban city like Phila, but have a lack of coverage in this city, to put it in shorter words.

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  • 2 months later...
Hi I have lived in Philadelphia for the past 3 years, before that I lived in Seattle and New York City. This topic is one that caught my attention because since I have lived here I have felt the biggest issue with this city is its archaic transit system. While it isnt as bad as Seattle, which currently uses a system of underground buses and a 2 stop monorail that costs 4 dollars. It is also not expanding like Seattle's system, it seems there has been no improvement in anything dealing with SEPTA since the 1980's. For example you need exactly $2 cash to ride, there is no way around this short of tokens(honestly who uses tokens anymore) and if you think you can buy a ticket using a debit/ credit card forget it. Also everyone seems to forget that West Philadelphia has a somewhat expansive subway to surface line that is horribly under funded and in need of an upgrade. As for the Subway lines that form a glorified t shape, good luck efficiently using them if you do not live in a 4 block radius of Market or Broad st. Philadelphia seems to be going in the direction of an auto based city which is crazy if you ask me, the lack of thouroughfares and horrible parking problem makes this city prime for an expansive mass transit system. That being said the city is facing huge growth potential in the future, if we want this to come to fruition were gonna have to do better then a mass transit authority that is only second worst to the one in Detroit. I dont post on these boards much instead i mostly scan them for information but this issue is one that I have been thinking about a lot recently. IMO almost anyone could run SEPTA better then SEPTA does.
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