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[Zissou]

The word needs to disappear altogether. I understand that in black culture it is a term of endearment but the use of it keeps it around. I also dont get why a word that is so nasty and hate filled can now be so loving, unless it is looked at as a common bond between two black people. Maybe i just dont get it.

[RustTown]

I hope I can explain, then, because their are double standards that work, and that I'm completely content with.

In the same way that a man calling a beotch is wrong, whether he means it as a term of endearment or not (and most often not), a white person really has no legitimate use for the word "######," anymore, or even the endearment derivation "nigga." While I myself don't use the word, if a black person has a use for the word, than so be it. The word was once used as the most negative term to describe a black individual, and what black people have simply done is taken the word and made it their own. And society (white and black) has decided to make it taboo for white people to rerclaim the word, seeing as how they are much more susceptible to abusing it. Returing the word to their lexicon would put it at risk of being abused again in the very worst way.

Eventually, it will die, but until then I have no problem with it running its course within the black community. I don't want to be insensitive hear, but the use of the word is really the least the majority should allot to black individuals for the use of that word for centuries as a derogatory term. Try as other races may have, there is no term for the majority race in this country that has the same nasty connotations, or the same stingy effect as the term "######." And, lastly about racial doubled standards, many hate to admit it, but by virtue or being a minority or one in the majority, we do have certain different rules we can play by.

Just remember, while we may get to use the term "Nigga" you guys get the special privilege of "Majority Privilege." For every one "special privilege" we get, your get twice that for being born as part of the majority race. And, this is just a social thing, and it goes for any majority race in any part of the world, it just happens to be "White Privilege" here in the U.S.

I hope you guys can at least see where I'm coming from if even you don't agree. We can all learn from each other.

[Michi]

Your insight certainly is a start in understanding how complicating it is. Generally speaking, I'm not overly-concerned about usage of the term. However, like I stated above, it's very rarely ever used alone and almost always is accompanied by other derogatory language that has a hateful, brutal, and ignorant tone. This makes me wonder where the intentions of the user are.

I guess maybe what I would need explained to me, LMich, is why someone like you doesn't use the word, but a "different" kind of person would. What is the difference? Is it a morality issue, a popularity issue, a respect, circumstantial, or something else issue?

For instance, you won't see a black man interviewing for a job and greeting the black interviewee as "N*****". If it's so accepted and within a comfort zone, why would I feel comfortable in saying that that probably wouldn't happen?

There's a certain area of the Wayne State library that I can not sit at because even just walking by, I'm almost guaranteed to hear the word at least once. And like I said, it's never alone. It's always used with heightened emotion, and elevated voice projection. There's no reason for that in public places.

So, I don't mean to beat this to death, but I'm still kinda lost on the whole idea and how it does nothing for the ACP.

[RustTown]

Let me see if I can answer that, too. Once again, I don't want to sound like I'm speaking for all Black Americans, but I want to give my view.

The best way I can explain it is that the word has many meanings and usages within the Black community. Some endearing, and some not. It sounds like you are hearing the latter, a lot. This negative usage of the word is much how White Americans had (and some still do) used the term as a slur. But when said by Black person has more of a cursing or swearing connotation, than obviously a racial one. Many higher-educated Blacks also use the world to describe "ghetto" or "uneducated," but detatched from the racial meaning of the word. I guess I will say, again, that it's like a man derogatorally referring to a women as a "beotch" or "ho," but probably even less derogatory than that.

To sum it all up, the Black community accepts the word as both a swear/curse word or a term of endearment depending on how it's used, but never as a racial slur since we are all the same people, of course.

I don't use it, because I'm one of many Black Americans that wishes the word to die, not just because of its controversial nature and all of the negative history attached to it, but because it's plain vulgar as you've pointed out. In its negative connotation, it's been made a swear word. Believe me, there is quite the internal debate within the Black community about the word, and it's becoming more an issue of class within the Black community than ever before. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you did an internet search, right now, and found serious researches and studies on the use of the word within the Black community. It's been made a science within Black studies.

[Michi]

That's interesting, but the controversy of "both swear/curse word and term of endearment" will probably never rest well with me.

I ask in all seriousness: what would happen if I used the term with complete intention of it meaning the endearing connotation that other blacks who use it do? For example, joining in on a black group conversation where I hear the word being used repeatedly.

You're probably laughing, but I'm serious. What would happen?

[RustTown]

The word should not be uttered from a non-Black mouth because it is still used in its most derogatory form by White Americans (and a few other's), and still retains much of its negative connotations and historical baggage, even with the effort of Black Americans to steward this word, neutralize it, and take it out of existence. The word is just too crucial when spoken by non-Black America, and the negative meaning still far too fresh for Black America to allow its use by non-Black America, if even as a term of endearment. I sometimes fear White America seems to be annoyed with the few special, cultural privilges we've been afforded, when you are born with special privilges of your own by virtue of being the majority. And I'm talking about small things like your freedom of movement, such as being able to walk into nearly any establishment and not be followed or more heavily scrutinized, and so on. Why do they have a problem with us using a word that White America decided for itself was wrong to use out of cultural sensitivity? Why can't we (or shouldn't we) have the right to take a word created specifically for us to dehumanize and culturally and ethnically maim us, and neutralize it for our own use? Is it the wanting of something that you shouldn't have that makes the wanting all the stronger? I don't think we are going to agree, but I'm just as baffled as you are, but my confusion is why any non-Black person would even ever want to use the word, that is unless you want it because society has decided that you can't have it.

[Michi]

It wouldn't be that I want it because society decided I can't have it. It would probably be because it's been accepted by the black race. To me this word provides a major hinderance and a huge gap between the races. I don't believe you can have the word and strive for racial equality, especially with the advancements that have been taken and successful.

For example, I (the white family) refuse to send my children to a school that is majority black, and where on the playground that word is heavily used by the students. Showing my concern for the foul language that accompanies that, I have a perception that my kids might get involved with negative associations. They might start listening to rap music and as a parent, I'm concerned with the content of the language in that genre of music and the violence behind it might influence my children.

I don't know if I will ever understand, but to me it screams hypocracy. Do you want the wounds of generations past to be mended as soon as humanly possible, or is there contentment in owning a continuous hold on the way America has failed the black race?

I mean, were there blacks at Rosa Parks' funeral who shed their condolences by saying, "rest in peace, my nigga"?

[RustTown]

I'm not exactly sure if I got any of that, but I'll try.

The negative usage of the world amongst Black Americans isn't a disease, it's a manifested symptom. And, when you say majority Black school, you seem to be implying that most everyone would be caught up in trouble, thus using the word negatively, thus it would be inescapable. The fact is, with any school, there are cliques and groups of people, and not everyone uses the word. Not everyone is caught up in outside trouble.

I most definitely understand, though, why someone (White, Black, or otherwise) wouldn't want to send their kids one of the poorer (if not the poorest) school districts in their city. I wouldn't see the use of the word "nigga" being one of those reasons, though.

I think I totally missed your point. lol

[Michi]

I don't know if you did or not. But you hinted at poverty. Could it be that that is a factor in it's usage? Not to stereotype, but rather address an observation, I notice the word is used and abused much more in large groups. The group is usually not racially diverse.

Anyway, I really don't know where to go with it from here. I don't think I will ever fully understand its ignorant undertones. But thanks for trying to explain and shedding some light on it.

[Fletch]

Ah, yes, a thread that started out on the subject of anemic job growth/quality ends on the issue of racism and ignorance. Connection?

[Michi]

Of course there's a connection. This is Detroit after all.

[RustTown]

I wish this would have stayed dead.