Mindless Political Debate

[Dale]

Well, its mainly ideas that republicans have put in place that have led to this misuse of money, especially the federal money that we get for transportation. Catagorical Grants and Block Grants, all ideas proposed by Republicans which gives tax money for anything or for nothing...Basicaly you can use the money for whatever you want in a block grant, and catagorical grants you get money for roads but you have to fit a specific catagory... There is no grey area, typical of republican politics. In turn that just hurts us. I also find it hard to believe that you have anti-Democrat sentiment, because they havent been able to do anything in office for years. I prefer socialism so attack them both at will, it won't affect me any, just try to do it in traffic on your way to the voter booth.

It doesn't matter that Democrats 'haven't been able to do anything in office for years'. The Republicans have carried on their tax-and-spend policies without them.

And arguably being mired in traffic and socialism are the same thing.

[Go Gators]

Well, its mainly ideas that republicans have put in place that have led to this misuse of money, especially the federal money that we get for transportation. Catagorical Grants and Block Grants, all ideas proposed by Republicans which gives tax money for anything or for nothing...Basicaly you can use the money for whatever you want in a block grant, and catagorical grants you get money for roads but you have to fit a specific catagory... There is no grey area, typical of republican politics. In turn that just hurts us. I also find it hard to believe that you have anti-Democrat sentiment, because they havent been able to do anything in office for years. I prefer socialism so attack them both at will, it won't affect me any, just try to do it in traffic on your way to the voter booth.

I know very well what the different types of grants are...and there is ALWAYS a grey area.

You find it hard to believe I have anti-democrat sentiment? I could make it very easy for you..lol but that is not the reason for this board. However, I will ask you this, what would you do differently?

Lets not put good ole W as the poster boy for Republicans...He is conservatice mainly in the sense of anti gay/abortion, but that is about the main extent. So, he may not be the best illustration for Republicans.

And as far as not being able to get anything done, yea Clinton was good, but how about the joke known as Carter?

Thats all...Hillary '08!!!!!!!

Hey Dale! Go Gators! 3 game sweep of Miami this weekend...I guess that makes Gainesville "Florida's Most Impressive City" (from the Florida fourm).

[illliterate02]

It doesn't matter that Democrats 'haven't been able to do anything in office for years'. The Republicans have carried on their tax-and-spend policies without them.

And arguably being mired in traffic and socialism are the same thing.

I am sure... along with the rest of the world who don't have nearly the same problem with either. Thank god for airplanes that can take me to places where I dont need a car, or a lot of money to get medical care.

[Chemmie]

I think that is how we got up there, because of the size of this city and the situation with the traffic. We should not be having the problems that we are right now. Its too bad that we have had these problems for years. My mother didn't realize that we had such a bad problem here till she moved away. Its just really sad that people care about a half cent here or there in order to improve the quality of life in this city and state. Sure lots of tax money gets wasted on things, but they also help improve the community, and Americans are so anti-taxes it disgusts me. They want to drive on the roads, use the schools, and call the police and fire departments but dont want to give more money to help improve any of them. But they will be the first to whine and complain about how things need to improve. Sorry, my anti-Republican sentiments have been growing inside me for a few weeks... Politics gotta love em..

It's because taxes aren't the answer.

Anything left to the government becomes bloated and hemorrhaging money after a while. This is why I always refuse and always will refuse any tax increase that's supposed to "help". It's not helping, it's just adding to the problem.

[WeNeed2Progress]

If they treat our diseases anything like they educate our children or build roads, the mortality rate on a case of hemorrhoids is going to go WAY up.

Huh? In regards to USA or other areas in the globe? Because when it comes to education, we're falling way behind.

What we have going for us is personality!

[Chemmie]

Huh? In regards to USA or other areas in the globe? Because when it comes to education, we're falling way behind.

What we have going for us is personality!

USA

[illliterate02]

It's because taxes aren't the answer.

Anything left to the government becomes bloated and hemorrhaging money after a while. This is why I always refuse and always will refuse any tax increase that's supposed to "help". It's not helping, it's just adding to the problem.

[Chemmie]

I don't want any of those people that are in office now to be in office, nor did I vote for any of them. This country was built with an elitist complex and that is what fuels Capitalism. I dont personally advocate any one who represents those greedy individual ideas to represent anyone.

And unless the totally change the way that they disperse money then we will have to raise taxes. Try and get some of that money from the defense budget buddy... you will be shot for treason.

I didn't vote any of them in either.... well, except my old congressman in Georgia, John Linder. (there was a reason.)

Your point is correct, but you act as if we are somewhat helpless, which I would guess we are since nobody in Washington seems to know how to stop spending. The key is to disperse money differently. True, the defense budget is insane, and this is coming from somebody who works for a defense contractor and would likely lose their job if and when it gets cut. There are also many, many, other areas of the national budget that could receive a good axing. The government gets enough money from us already and they use it improperly.

If you hire a contractor to build you a house and he builds a piece of garbage that is falling apart, are you going to give that same contractor more money to fix it? Then, when he does that job poorly, are you going to pay him more for an addition? Then pay him more to istall a pool... and a sprinkler system... and a garage? When all of these jobs are done inefficiently, with poor quality and at a higher cost, are you going to keep hiring the guy to do more work?

Of course not. So why support paying more in taxes when they don't even do what they should be doing with the taxes they already get from us?

[Dale]

Wasn't it Churchill who said that capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, whereas socialism is the equal distribution of misery ?

America is just socialist enough so that I know socialism is not the answer.

[illliterate02]

Wasn't it Churchill who said that capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, whereas socialism is the equal distribution of misery ?

America is just socialist enough so that I know socialism is not the answer.

I dont want to start a discussion about that. But America is no where near socialism. In fact our wealth distribution resembles that of a 3rd world country.

I was in the Navy as well, and I could see that defense cutbacks would have placed me in danger. But I think that the lack of money in school is putting the American worker in danger. The lack of healthcare for everyone is putting people in danger, and the lack of transportation and transportational alternatives are putting our ecosystems in danger. Sorry, I gotta go fellas take it easy...

[Go Gators]

I don't want any of those people that are in office now to be in office, nor did I vote for any of them. This country was built with an elitist complex and that is what fuels Capitalism. I dont personally advocate any one who represents those greedy individual ideas to represent anyone.

I would argue that this country was built on a boycott of taxes...Tea anyone?

So you dont like the people in office, lets vote in a democrat. They will go for higher taxes (by definition of their party platform) and then we will be in the same position, poor and inefficient spending. Then we will be complaining about the current party in office. I could show you numerous studies showing how people always become tired of the party in office, regardless of personal affiliation.

[bulldogger]

It's because taxes aren't the answer.

Anything left to the government becomes bloated and hemorrhaging money after a while. This is why I always refuse and always will refuse any tax increase that's supposed to "help". It's not helping, it's just adding to the problem.

[illliterate02]

I would argue that this country was built on a boycott of taxes...Tea anyone?

So you dont like the people in office, lets vote in a democrat. They will go for higher taxes (by definition of their party platform) and then we will be in the same position, poor and inefficient spending. Then we will be complaining about the current party in office. I could show you numerous studies showing how people always become tired of the party in office, regardless of personal affiliation.

Thats generalizing the formation of this country. To get a real idea of how it was built you would need to uncover the reasons that the British let the colonialists come over in the first place? And then why they taxed them, and then why the colonialists resisted. The bottom line: Money.

And read a bit further up, I dont support democrats either.... I dont trust any politicians. I guess I cant trust my self then because that is what I aspire to become

[Dale]

a) If this is the case, then you don't think we should have taxes whatsoever? No schools to anyone except the rich. Fire and police companies would fight over coverage areas (have you seen Gangs of New York?) No military protection. No roads PERIOD. Kissimmee is taxed more than Orange County residents. They aren't freaking out over a penny on sales. I don't mind paying another penny or half penny on the dollar. Lay down some tracks, though. I'm tired of seeing more roadways. Our leaders can't find any money for mass transit, but we can expand the 408. If that's a toll road, shouldn't they just jack up the fees to pay for itself? I don't have a say in that. I don't use it. I'm not freaking out either when a lot of the people (even on this board) drive out to BFE and use the 408 on my tax dollars.

b) Now, I do know that we have a bureaucracy and our government could be run much better than it is now, but there are services that we need. And some people will just argue that, "I don't want some of these services." Well, some people do need them. I have a friend that is a staunch Republican and has the motto of 'you pay your way.' This is completely ironic to me, because he thinks it's OK that he pays a small share into our health coverage while his kid with spina bifida soaks up all the funds contributed by healthy people like myself. He told me that his kid has had over a million dollars in surgeries since birth. It's not government controlled insurance, so what's wrong? According to Republican Party philosophy, he should be following Darwin's theories of the strong survive - not helping others. It doesn't really matter if it's private or public, our health care system sucks. Sorry for the rant about health care. Here is an article from the Sentinel that talks about the new development proposed for SoDo (thanks for the headsup JayBee)

SoDo

They mention that downtown Orlando may start being recognized as hospital to hospital.

However did we manage before the income tax ? Before Social Security ? Before the FDA ? Before government schools ? Before the ...

And it is neither selfishness nor a penchant for social darwinism that leads to a more libertarian outlook. Rather, it is the general observation that there is precious little that the government does well.

Thats generalizing the formation of this country. To get a real idea of how it was built you would need to uncover the reasons that the British let the colonialists come over in the first place? And then why they taxed them, and then why the colonialists resisted. The bottom line: Money.

And read a bit further up, I dont support democrats either.... I dont trust any politicians. I guess I cant trust my self then because that is what I aspire to become

But isn't there a sense in which people like you and I produce the politicians we purport to distrust ?

Really, if there were no great clamor in this country to get at somebody else's money ...

[bulldogger]

So you dont like the people in office, lets vote in a democrat. They will go for higher taxes (by definition of their party platform) and then we will be in the same position, poor and inefficient spending. Then we will be complaining about the current party in office. I could show you numerous studies showing how people always become tired of the party in office, regardless of personal affiliation.

When's the last time the Democrats controlled Congress? You will have to look that up for me, because I can't remember. Right now, we have one party controlling everything. Things worked well, not perfect, under Clinton, because there were 2 parties and most things got checked.

Democrats are known for higher taxes. OK, but the current Republican administration still has the same inefficient spending habits. Without the tax base, our federal government is OWNED by the Chinese. And they are horrible for being Socialists and don't know what they are doing? Then, why are we owned by them? They could shut our government down by not lending us money anymore. We can barely pay off the interest payment to foreign governments right now. Bush makes me feel so, umm, uhhh,

[Go Gators]

Democrats are known for higher taxes. OK, but the current Republican administration still has the same inefficient spending habits. Without the tax base, our federal government is OWNED by the Chinese. And they are horrible for being Socialists and don't know what they are doing? Then, why are we owned by them? They could shut our government down by not lending us money anymore. We can barely pay off the interest payment to foreign governments right now. Bush makes me feel so, umm, uhhh,

I agree the republican government has inefficient spending habits as Ive stated in my previous posts. So do Democrats, and so would the Green party and Reform party and whatever other party that would be voted in. My only assertion is that we should not raise taxes on every new issue, but learn how to work with a budget, just as most Americans do. We should put more emphasis on national savings and investment for a while.

Yea the Chinese own a lot of our debt. Sure, it makes a good story to say that they (chinese) could decide to cash in on it and crush the American economy (not government, economy). But lets look at this from their point of view...Who is China's largest exporter? Who buys the most Chinese consumer products? Who basically keep's China's industry alive? Your right, it is the Americans. So would it be in their best interest to tank our economy? If our consumers dont have the ability to by consumer goods, what would in turn happen to China's economy? Your right, it would tank as well. It is in both countries best interest that China doesnt cash in. And theyre aware of that. But no one wants to hear a boring economics lesson on the news, thats bad for ratings.

[Chemmie]

And it is neither selfishness nor a penchant for social darwinism that leads to a more libertarian outlook. Rather, it is the general observation that there is precious little that the government does well.

Bingo. It's the observation that government monopolies are far worse than any corporate monopoly could ever dream of. The vast majority of things people complain about are because of government run monopolies. The roads and mass transit, the schools, utilities, the postal service, etc. etc. etc.

I don't advocate a total elimination of the governments involvement in some of these programs, but as long as the government has a monopoly and a hand in the taxpayers, always open, pockets, we are going to get poor service and will keep complaining. Only when we choose to close our pockets will the government realize that they have screwed EVERYTHING up. But alas, people continue to believe that somehow giving them more and more money for them to provide more and more poor service, is a good thing.

[Dale]

I would even take a step beyond that. I don't want the government out of my pocket just because I don't think they can intelligently help my neighbor-in-need. No, it is chiefly because I believe I (and others like me) can do a better job than government in helping my neighbor-in-need.

Now that's just a general principle of mine. I'm not entirely sure how that applies to the issue of traffic congestion.

Or maybe it does in this sense: maybe I know better than the government how to get myself to work on time.

[depechecureguyorl]

I would argue that this country was built on a boycott of taxes...Tea anyone?

So you dont like the people in office, lets vote in a democrat. They will go for higher taxes (by definition of their party platform) and then we will be in the same position, poor and inefficient spending. Then we will be complaining about the current party in office. I could show you numerous studies showing how people always become tired of the party in office, regardless of personal affiliation.

I just had to throw this in...wasn't one of the main reasons for the US Revolution against the British was "No Taxation without Representation"? The British wanted to tax the colonial's, but not give them anything in return. All the money was going to Britain and none was being kept in the US. So...yes, in essence, War is about MONEY.

We need less Government. We need to allow the States room to govern themselves the best way they see fit for their respective state. What works for California does not always work for Florida. Finally, we need Politicians to stop pandering to one demographic over another. Not every Republican is a card carrying NRA member who attends the Church of Christ every Sunday and then attends an Anti-Abortion rally.

[Dale]

I just had to throw this in...wasn't one of the main reasons for the US Revolution against the British was "No Taxation without Representation"? The British wanted to tax the colonial's, but not give them anything in return. All the money was going to Britain and none was being kept in the US. So...yes, in essence, War is about MONEY.

We need less Government. We need to allow the States room to govern themselves the best way they see fit for their respective state. What works for California does not always work for Florida. Finally, we need Politicians to stop pandering to one demographic over another. Not every Republican is a card carrying NRA member who attends the Church of Christ every Sunday and then attends an Anti-Abortion rally.

Not that Republicans should apologize for card-carrying NRA members who attend CofC's and anti-abortion rallies.

I do agree that the Framers were wiser than we in devolving power to the states.

[Go Gators]

I just had to throw this in...wasn't one of the main reasons for the US Revolution against the British was "No Taxation without Representation"? The British wanted to tax the colonial's, but not give them anything in return. All the money was going to Britain and none was being kept in the US. So...yes, in essence, War is about MONEY.

We need less Government. We need to allow the States room to govern themselves the best way they see fit for their respective state. What works for California does not always work for Florida. Finally, we need Politicians to stop pandering to one demographic over another. Not every Republican is a card carrying NRA member who attends the Church of Christ every Sunday and then attends an Anti-Abortion rally.

Yes! Your exactly right...

I think you may have mis read my "lets vote in a democrat," part, It was supposed to be sarcastic. I completely agree with giving more power to the states, and your point on Republicans, (which by the way, its Baptist, not CoC lol J/K ) Less government = better government.

[depechecureguyorl]

Not that Republicans should apologize for card-carrying NRA members who attend CofC's and anti-abortion rallies.

I do agree that the Framers were wiser than we in devolving power to the states.

I was hoping to imply that, personally, I would not fit into the liberal's view of an "Average" Republican. This party is probably more diverse than the Dem's could ever hope to be, but you never see THAT reported in the news.

Now...back to the topic at hand...I agree that more taxes to help fix our roads are not the answer, but a re-allocation of taxes. I'd hate to quote a not so popular local figure, but the tourism industry DOES keep their "grubby little fingers" all over the tourist tax. That's ONE tax that is blatantly unfairly allocated.

[Dale]

I was hoping to imply that, personally, I would not fit into the liberal's view of an "Average" Republican. This party is probably more diverse than the Dem's could ever hope to be, but you never see THAT reported in the news.

Now...back to the topic at hand...I agree that more taxes to help fix our roads are not the answer, but a re-allocation of taxes. I'd hate to quote a not so popular local figure, but the tourism industry DOES keep their "grubby little fingers" all over the tourist tax. That's ONE tax that is blatantly unfairly allocated.

True, the media does like to caricature anything to the right of the spectrum. How often do you see the adjective 'contoversial' attached to 'leftwing' ?

[bulldogger]

True, the media does like to caricature anything to the right of the spectrum. How often do you see the adjective 'contoversial' attached to 'leftwing' ?

(Buzzer)

What is... Michael Moore.

[bulldogger]

There are only certain places the tourist tax can go (with the way the law is written now). It can't go for education, or for Homeland security. I've been to quite a few Magic games over the years & I have to say that the NBA does draw some of our International tourists. I don't believe they come to see the Magic, but they will come downtown to see Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, or possibly their favorite player from home.

And since the Magic blow chunks, it would make more sense to go to Cleveland, LA or Miami to see those respective players perform above the rim. Although, you could see those players at Magic prices.

A new arena would not just be for basketball but hopefully for other sports and venues. You don't think tourists would come downtown to see U2 or Coldplay? I certainly do.

Yes, agreed. Now, let's see if we can get U2 in Orlando.