Relocating to Memphis?

[hgupta]

oh yeah..and Memphis is very similar to SF in that as you get further away from the core of the city, its more conservative.

Thats one of the good things about the city being really spread out: I don't have to run into the type of people who don't want to run into me!

[mandrws1]

oh yeah..and Memphis is very similar to SF in that as you get further away from the core of the city, its more conservative.

Thats one of the good things about the city being really spread out: I don't have to run into the type of people who don't want to run into me!

Thats definitely true! Absence makes the heart grow fonder! When I left for college, I also saw how unique of a place Memphis is.

[Bears]

does Nashville have a big burgeoning high-tech industry? I had no idea.

I don't think Nashville has much more of a high tech industry than Memphis. Software development maybe but in medical technology I don't think it does. The reason Nashville probably ranked so high was because many Christian publishers and labels, CMT, and the old TNN (The Nashville Network) were all based there. Many big name recording studios are located in Nashville, unlike Memphis. Because of those recording studios, many song writers are also based there. Nashville is more mainstream, while Memphis has an independent underground style. I read one editioral that said "Memphis is a more 'in your own element' type city."

[ricky_the_great]

ive always had the feeling im the youngest here: 19.

My parents have always talked down Memphis, its mayor, and every single project in downtown memphis.

[tatersmith]

Fearless-

If I were you, I would focus on Cooper-Young. Great walking neighborhood with a lot of character. Good restaurants, coffee shops and bars. Retail is starting to move in. Easy access to the U of M and to Downtown. Lacks a close, good grocery but you will learn to navigate the Schnuck's Union parking lot within 4 years.

Here's a good link that will give you crime information about any area in Memphis...

https://crimemapper.memphispolice.org/crimemapper/index.cfm

Enter Cooper and Young as your intersection for that area. Other major intersections might be Front and Beale for Downtown or Poplar and Cooper for further north in Midtown (near overton square).

[fearlessvk]

Hmmm just a quick question re: cooper-young - it has been mentioned to me a lot, but is it really a "neighborhod" or "district" or just an intersection??? (I mean, obviously, it's named for an intersection, but I'm wondering how far it actually extends beyond the intersection itself - how many blocks?) I ask because i've noticed a few people elsewhere on the net pointing out that there really isn't much IN cooper-young, that it's misleading to refer to it as a district when it's pretty much just a single intersection.

thanks!!! hard to figure out where i want to live in a city when i've barely set foot in the city at all....!!

S

[TennBear]

Since no one appears to have talked about it, I will say that the Dixon is one of the best kept secrets in Memphis. I am certain that you will want to go back time and again. Here is the web site.

http://www.dixon.org/

[tatersmith]

Hmmm just a quick question re: cooper-young - it has been mentioned to me a lot, but is it really a "neighborhod" or "district" or just an intersection??? (I mean, obviously, it's named for an intersection, but I'm wondering how far it actually extends beyond the intersection itself - how many blocks?) I ask because i've noticed a few people elsewhere on the net pointing out that there really isn't much IN cooper-young, that it's misleading to refer to it as a district when it's pretty much just a single intersection.

thanks!!! hard to figure out where i want to live in a city when i've barely set foot in the city at all....!!

S

I would call it a small district. People refer to living "in Cooper-Young" though they might live on a side street (like Evelyn or Walker). Referring to this map:

Google Maps of CY My perception is the north border is Central, south is Southern, east is East Parkway and west is Mclean. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. There is a nice infill neighborhood that has gone in on Mclean at the railroad tracks. Central Gardens (a National Historic District just to the north and west around Central) is a beautiful place to live too. Housing can be expensive but there are rentals available there too.

Scroll east and west on google maps to see your proximity to U of M, Overton Park and Downtown.

The district website at http://www.cooperyoung.com/ calls it a "community". The website is a little outdated.

Referring to what others are saying about CY...it's no Haight-Ashbury but it has at least 8 really good places to eat (and one or two bad ones) and retail is moving along. Three very diverse bars and two coffee shops round it out. There are a couple of articles in the Memphis Flyer independent weekly and Commercial Appeal about new, independent retail stores starting up. I believe it's a matter of time before a major developer converts property along Cooper to a mixed use or all retail.

[hgupta]

I ask because i've noticed a few people elsewhere on the net pointing out that there really isn't much IN cooper-young, that it's misleading to refer to it as a district when it's pretty much just a single intersection.

I'm always interested in what others are saying about my part of town...could you point me to it?

[sleepy]

Fearless,

I posted some pics of Cooper-Young awhile back, I believe it was in Midtown Memphis pt. 2 thread.

Also, here's some music links:

This is a Memphis music blog:

http://www.rachelandthecity.com/

This is a site for Goner Records which also has a bulletin board you might want to check out:

http://goner-records.com/index/mainpage/mainpage.html

Another link about a newcomer to Memphis:

http://www.downtownmemphis.com/domain/documents/vibe.pdf

Concerning some stereotypes about southern politics (and I have no idea what your politics are)--

Six months ago or so there was a letter to the editor in the Memphis Flyer from a college prof in southern CA. The letter was commenting on some political forum in Memphis where Bush had got bashed. The letter basically said how brave those people must be to put down Bush in a place like Memphis. Well, Kerry carried Shelby County 57 to 43, and probably carried the city of Memphis 75 to 25. Anyway, that was an example of how clueless some people can be. I wrote him back about it. (and this guy was from Orange County lol)

Overall, I think you'll find Memphis to be an eccentric place with a lot of atmosphere and character--qualities that are more and more difficult to come by. It certainly isn't bland.

A book you may be interested in--"It Came From Memphis" which details some of the wackier contributions Memphis made to popular culture.

[tatersmith]

Good call, sleepy, on the goner site. The Memphis tips page at

http://goner-records.com/index/memphis/memphis.html

is a good resource for some of Memphis' hidden treasures (especially food).

[sleepy]

Ever been to Wild Bill's on Chelsea?

Great blues joint. Only liquor served is beer in quarts.

[cdarr]

Six months ago or so there was a letter to the editor in the Memphis Flyer from a college prof in southern CA. The letter was commenting on some political forum in Memphis where Bush had got bashed. The letter basically said how brave those people must be to put down Bush in a place like Memphis. Well, Kerry carried Shelby County 57 to 43, and probably carried the city of Memphis 75 to 25. Anyway, that was an example of how clueless some people can be. I wrote him back about it. (and this guy was from Orange County lol)

You're right, that bashing Bush does not take much "bravery" at all in a city that is 65% black, in a county that's 50% black, and considering that 90% of blacks nationally support the Democratic ticket no questions asked. I would even say that within African-American society in Memphis, you would likely be outcast if you supported Bush in any way. To be fair, you would be similarly outcast speaking fondly of Bill Clinton at Bellevue Baptist Church.

[fearlessvk]

Thanks for the info on cooper-young, tater! It definitely sounds very promising. I just wish I could hang out in the city for a week and get to know different parts of town before I had to move there.... but I guess that's rarely an option. And thanks sleepy for posting all those music-related links - I do love a good local music scene

As for politics in memphis - I'm not actually surprised that memphis went so strongly for kerry, since it has a significant african-american population, and that invariably indicates a serious advantage for the democrats. Apart from that, I wonder how many genuine CITIES vote republican at all (i realize you were giving data for the whole county, but i was struck by your 75/25 estimate for the city of memphis). My impression is that heavily populated urban areas almost always go democrat. I would be interested to see some stats on that. (btw - it's neither here nor there, but my own politics are defintely left of center - waaaaaaay left of center!)

When I was in memphis for my interviews (alas - didn't get to see *anything* really - I was in town for two nights, and my only full day in town was occupied by 14 straight hours of interviews, talks, and breakfast/lunch/dinner with faculty!) the one thing that really did give me a bit of culture shock coming from SF was simply the number of churches everywhere. There's a distinctive kind of church - this kind of small, rundown, dilapidated corner church - that you just don't see out here. I intend no judgment at all; it's just something I noted was all over the place and completely outside my ordinary experience.

hgupta, unfortunatey I'm not sure if I could remember anymore where I tracked down all these random comments about memphis - but I do recall I went to flickr to see if anyone had pictures tagged with "cooperyoung" and found some guy from seattle had all these pics from a trip to memphis, and he ha a picture of cooper young where in the caption he derided it for being "just an intersection" that was pretending to be a hip, thriving district. Or something to that effect. If you go to flickr.com and look up "cooperyoung" you should be able to find it pretty quickly.....

I'll definitely let everyone know what I think of memphis when I finally get there - but it's not really all that soon yet - another 4.5 months still!

S

[fieldmarshaldj]

You're right, that bashing Bush does not take much "bravery" at all in a city that is 65% black, in a county that's 50% black, and considering that 90% of blacks nationally support the Democratic ticket no questions asked. I would even say that within African-American society in Memphis, you would likely be outcast if you supported Bush in any way. To be fair, you would be similarly outcast speaking fondly of Bill Clinton at Bellevue Baptist Church.

It is also another reason why there are negative perceptions of majority-Black cities or districts when you have virtually zero party/ideological political competition, which has been greatly to its detriment on so many levels (no checks and balances, no accountability - battles solely fought within one party where all the differences tend to be based on personality and little else). The 90% figure is more a recent development in the South, where Black voters (those not disenfranchised, of course) were majority GOP for a century from enfranchisement in the 1860s until the 1960s. In Northern states, from 1935-1965, Black voters tended to vote or support the Democrats by a majority (polar opposite to their Southern brethren), having been lured over to the Democrats during FDR's first term, and after 1965, more uniformally similar percentages in both regions.

[fieldmarshaldj]

As for politics in memphis - I'm not actually surprised that memphis went so strongly for kerry, since it has a significant african-american population, and that invariably indicates a serious advantage for the democrats. Apart from that, I wonder how many genuine CITIES vote republican at all (i realize you were giving data for the whole county, but i was struck by your 75/25 estimate for the city of memphis). My impression is that heavily populated urban areas almost always go democrat. I would be interested to see some stats on that. (btw - it's neither here nor there, but my own politics are defintely left of center - waaaaaaay left of center!)

I'd have to go over it city by city, but many haven't been politically competitive for some time. Most Southern cities (with a few exceptions, such as Jacksonville, Florida) only had, at best, a brief political flirtation with the GOP in the tumultuous '60s and '70s before going Democrat (solely within the cities, not in the suburbs, of course). In the North, it was a bit different. Many Northern cities developed political machines, which were mostly, though not entirely, Democrat. After the Depression, virtually every major city went Democrat and never reverted back. New York City, in actuality, was almost always a Democrat city, and was as virulently anti-Lincoln in the 1860s as it was anti-Bush today. Boston was Republican until the 1870s when the Irish (bitterly excluded from the GOP because of the Know-Nothing elitism going back several decades) Democrats took control and have held sway almost ever since. Philadelphia still was competitive for the GOP until the 1940s, but not much since (with rare exceptions). Chicago was GOP until about the Depression (the most vigorous Republican voters were Blacks until the 1930s, after White Chicagoans moved to the Democrats). St. Louis until the 1940s. Even San Francisco and the Bay Area was heavily Republican for most of its existence (SF didn't elect a Dem Mayor, for example, for nearly 6 decades until 1964 - Berkeley was Republican until the '50s, Oakland the '60s). For a long time, San Francisco sent a Conservative Jewish Republican woman named Florence Kahn to Congress.

Why there is a lack of competition these days tends to be more cultural polarization of the cities, and something also more easily explained, you can almost exactly figure out the representation of an area is likely to be based on the percentage of married 2-parent with children households. The lower the figure, the more it is likely to be liberal/Democrat, the higher the figure, more Conservative/GOP. Places like San Francisco and Berkeley have some of the lowest percentages of married w/children households in the country, in stark contrast to where they used to be even until the '60s and '70s. It's often the expense of living in these areas as to why many choose to live elsewhere. San Francisco has also had the additional problem of driving out many Black residents, where their population also used to be much greater, many of modest means who simply can't afford to live there. If the cities themselves can ever start to attract back those families in greater numbers, they'll become a bit more politically competitive again (then, of course, SF has developed a different kind of competitive two-party system, the Dems and the Greens, but not exactly mainstream by any stretch).

[tatersmith]

I'd have to go over it city by city, but many haven't been politically competitive for some time. Most Southern cities (with a few exceptions, such as Jacksonville, Florida) only had, at best, a brief political flirtation with the GOP in the tumultuous '60s and '70s before going Democrat (solely within the cities, not in the suburbs, of course). In the North, it was a bit different. Many Northern cities developed political machines, which were mostly, though not entirely, Democrat. After the Depression, virtually every major city went Democrat and never reverted back. New York City, in actuality, was almost always a Democrat city, and was as virulently anti-Lincoln in the 1860s as it was anti-Bush today. Boston was Republican until the 1870s when the Irish (bitterly excluded from the GOP because of the Know-Nothing elitism going back several decades) Democrats took control and have held sway almost ever since. Philadelphia still was competitive for the GOP until the 1940s, but not much since (with rare exceptions). Chicago was GOP until about the Depression (the most vigorous Republican voters were Blacks until the 1930s, after White Chicagoans moved to the Democrats). St. Louis until the 1940s. Even San Francisco and the Bay Area was heavily Republican for most of its existence (SF didn't elect a Dem Mayor, for example, for nearly 6 decades until 1964 - Berkeley was Republican until the '50s, Oakland the '60s). For a long time, San Francisco sent a Conservative Jewish Republican woman named Florence Kahn to Congress.

Why there is a lack of competition these days tends to be more cultural polarization of the cities, and something also more easily explained, you can almost exactly figure out the representation of an area is likely to be based on the percentage of married 2-parent with children households. The lower the figure, the more it is likely to be liberal/Democrat, the higher the figure, more Conservative/GOP. Places like San Francisco and Berkeley have some of the lowest percentages of married w/children households in the country, in stark contrast to where they used to be even until the '60s and '70s. It's often the expense of living in these areas as to why many choose to live elsewhere. San Francisco has also had the additional problem of driving out many Black residents, where their population also used to be much greater, many of modest means who simply can't afford to live there. If the cities themselves can ever start to attract back those families in greater numbers, they'll become a bit more politically competitive again (then, of course, SF has developed a different kind of competitive two-party system, the Dems and the Greens, but not exactly mainstream by any stretch).

Interesting history. This is moving way off topic, but last week there was a NY Times article about Atlanta's gentrification and the opportunities more conservative politicians have to win city offices.

Link to a red/blue/purple county map of the last Pres election http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2004_US...le_counties.png

[sleepy]

As for politics in memphis - I'm not actually surprised that memphis went so strongly for kerry, since it has a significant african-american population, and that invariably indicates a serious advantage for the democrats. Apart from that, I wonder how many genuine CITIES vote republican at all (i realize you were giving data for the whole county, but i was struck by your 75/25 estimate for the city of memphis). My impression is that heavily populated urban areas almost always go democrat. I would be interested to see some stats on that. (btw - it's neither here nor there, but my own politics are defintely left of center - waaaaaaay left of center!)

When I was in memphis for my interviews (alas - didn't get to see *anything* really - I was in town for two nights, and my only full day in town was occupied by 14 straight hours of interviews, talks, and breakfast/lunch/dinner with faculty!) the one thing that really did give me a bit of culture shock coming from SF was simply the number of churches everywhere. There's a distinctive kind of church - this kind of small, rundown, dilapidated corner church - that you just don't see out here. I intend no judgment at all; it's just something I noted was all over the place and completely outside my ordinary experience.

hgupta, unfortunatey I'm not sure if I could remember anymore where I tracked down all these random comments about memphis - but I do recall I went to flickr to see if anyone had pictures tagged with "cooperyoung" and found some guy from seattle had all these pics from a trip to memphis, and he ha a picture of cooper young where in the caption he derided it for being "just an intersection" that was pretending to be a hip, thriving district. Or something to that effect. If you go to flickr.com and look up "cooperyoung" you should be able to find it pretty quickly.....

I'll definitely let everyone know what I think of memphis when I finally get there - but it's not really all that soon yet - another 4.5 months still!

S

I was just estimating the vote inside the city based on the fact that the most genuinely liberal state senator in the state--Steve Cohen--is a white democrat and is elected from a white Memphis district, thus I would say that Kerry got a substantial amount of white support--though probably not a majority. With most likely 90% black support and 40% white support, I "guessed" at a 75-25 vote.

About the guy from Seattle--I don't know what he was looking for, but if it was some sort of "packaged" hip scene, he was probably disappointed. Cooper-Young has plenty of nightlife, but it's more of a residential neighborhood.

Keep in mind, too, that in 1900, Memphis and New Orleans were the only 2 cities in the South that had more than 100,000 people, so Memphis is full of old 100 yr. old neighborhoods full of interesting urban southerners--the 12 sq. mile Midtown area is one of the few urban areas in the south which actually resembles a city in the traditional sense.

And Midtown is full of quirky old characters such as Prince Mongo who regularly draws a few thousand votes for mayor and believe he's from another planet:

http://commercialappeal.com/mca/business_c...4541664,00.html

I was a little surprised about your comment on the churches. What I always thought was noticeable was the number of really "edifice" type churches--particularly in the more suburban areas.

One thing that will surprise you--Memphis has a thriving Jewish population. The largest Orthodox Jewish temple in the US by congregants is in . . . . . Memphis, Baron Hirsch.

"The congregation continued to grow and in 1950 built North America

[TennBear]

Keep in mind, too, that in 1900, Memphis and New Orleans were the only 2 cities in the South that had more than 100,000 people, so Memphis is full of old 100 yr. old neighborhoods full of interesting urban southerners--the 12 sq. mile Midtown area is one of the few urban areas in the south which actually resembles a city in the traditional sense.

From the 1900 Census:

Depends on what you count as Southern. I couldn't get the Louisville is a Southern City battles on this site out of mind. To let you see the Top Ten Southern Cities of 1900. Funny to think that Memphis and LA were the same size.

Baltimore city, MD................. 508,957

New Orleans city, LA............... 287,104

Washington city, DC................ 278,718

Louisville city, KY................ 204,731

Memphis city, TN................... 102,320

Atlanta city, GA................... 89,872

Richmond city, VA.................. 85,050

Nashville city, TN................. 80,865

Charleston city, SC................ 55,807

Savannah city GA................... 54,244

[sleepy]

I was just going by the 11 state confederacy, or the deep south. Baltimore and DC were "slave" cities, but for that matter so were St. Louis and Kansas City.

[TennBear]

I was just going by the 11 state confederacy, or the deep south. Baltimore and DC were "slave" cities, but for that matter so were St. Louis and Kansas City.

Sleepy, I knew you were and knew you were right. For the most part I was letting people see just how much some cities grew during the 20th Century.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Interesting history. This is moving way off topic, but last week there was a NY Times article about Atlanta's gentrification and the opportunities more conservative politicians have to win city offices.

Link to a red/blue/purple county map of the last Pres election http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2004_US...le_counties.png

It's hard for me to look at those kinds of maps, because they don't particularly register with me. More to the point, I refuse to accept the new political color schemes deliberately and disingenuously foisted upon us by the media post-2000 that go against history, common-sense, and everything I've worked with and used for 25 years. Nowhere in the world is the color blue associated with a left-wing party and the color red (the very essence of international and domestic leftism) with the right. My works continue to reflect the proper blue=Republican, red=Democrat color scheme. I recommend this website, which also uses the proper color scheme as well: http://www.uselectionatlas.org/

[fieldmarshaldj]

I was just estimating the vote inside the city based on the fact that the most genuinely liberal state senator in the state--Steve Cohen--is a white democrat and is elected from a white Memphis district, thus I would say that Kerry got a substantial amount of white support--though probably not a majority. With most likely 90% black support and 40% white support, I "guessed" at a 75-25 vote.

I wish I could find an adequate resource that documents the racial makeup/political dynamics of individual legislative districts (on par with Barone's Almanac of American Politics for Congressional districts). Of course, all districts in Tennessee, from Congressional to State Senate and State House, are Democrat gerrymandered, in an attempt to preserve a numerical majority even after they no longer receive a majority of the vote (they haven't received a majority of the vote for Congress or the legislature in over a decade, and it gets more GOP with each successive election). The Republicans "busted" the gerrymander in the State Senate when they overcame the disadvantage in the last election (for the first time since Reconstruction). The House will likely be "busted" this year or in 2008. Districts like Cohen's will likely be eliminated and redrawn with the GOP at the helm in 2012 (with the White areas adjoined to an either existing Republican district or newer one, and the Black areas adjoined to an existing Democrat district or a newly created one). There will likely be many dramatic changes made in Shelby/Memphis & Davidson/Nashville legislative districts (the latter being one of the most agregious examples of gerrymandering and GOP voter disenfranchisement) and in rural Middle & West TN. I'm very much looking forward to the coming decade !

[mandrws1]

When I was in memphis for my interviews (alas - didn't get to see *anything* really - I was in town for two nights, and my only full day in town was occupied by 14 straight hours of interviews, talks, and breakfast/lunch/dinner with faculty!) the one thing that really did give me a bit of culture shock coming from SF was simply the number of churches everywhere.

I had visitors in town from Chicago last summer and they said, "Memphis has a church on EVERY corner too!"

[Bears]

When I was in memphis for my interviews (alas - didn't get to see *anything* really - I was in town for two nights, and my only full day in town was occupied by 14 straight hours of interviews, talks, and breakfast/lunch/dinner with faculty!) the one thing that really did give me a bit of culture shock coming from SF was simply the number of churches everywhere. There's a distinctive kind of church - this kind of small, rundown, dilapidated corner church - that you just don't see out here. I intend no judgment at all; it's just something I noted was all over the place and completely outside my ordinary experience.

According to bestplaces.net, 41.39% of Memphian are religious and SF is 41.83%. I'm not sure how they got this stat but the South certainly has churches on almost every street. When I lived in Memphis, I had five churches within a mile of my house. It is the buckle of the Bible belt but don't expect much more interaction with them other than maybe the occasional co-worker, a few knocks on your door from a church, or somebody handing out Bibles. Happens in MI too so its not really special to the South IMO. The South is mostly Baptist, while SF and up here is mostly Catholic. The big fancy churches are out in the suburbs.

Oh yea and when people say "coke", they may mean soda