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City/County Consolidation

thetoolman

By thetoolman
in Tallahassee

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thetoolman Whistle-Stop

thetoolman

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Selfishly, that would mean that two of my clients would be consolidated into one. But it does seem like the logical "business" decision when it comes to the best use of tax base and the best way to provide services.

I grew up in Knoxville TN at the time when the Knox County and City of Knoxville governments attempted to consolidate. However, I was too young to remember anything about it or care much. Here is some commentary on their repeated efforts - Google Cache of KnoxNews column on consolidation

Gainesville Sun article on consolidation, mentioning Leon County/TLH and Knoxville/Knox County attempts

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thetoolman Whistle-Stop

thetoolman

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I guess in the 3 second preview of upcoming news they could not note that the proposed consolidation is for law enforcement only.

The plan is under review at tomorrows county commission meeting, and Bob Rackleff was interviewed calling it an attempted hostile takeover of TPD (one of the premier law enforcement agencies in the region) that would result in increased taxes for county residents.

Sheriff Campbell was interviewed saying it would improve services to citizens and now is the time to do it.

Is this a step toward overall consolidation?

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Florida Megalopolis

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I do think the Law enforcement consolidation measure is trying to move forward. It is a topic of discussion in the halls of both city hall and the county courthouse. I think it is the first step in a total consolidation and it will be an issue we decide on as a community in the next 5-10 years.

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poonther Town

poonther

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Here's the link to the Democrat article on this subject:

Law Enforcement Consolidation

First I think this is just plain and simple common sense to consolidate these two agencies plus the rest of our governments.....but I don't always think like everyone else, so maybe I'm wrong. I also think DePuy is right, it will be a tough battle b/c of the personalities involved.

Second it kills me when Rackleff uses words like "stupid" to talk about this subject. He could chose his words much more carefully. Talk like that is just sabatoge and destructive. Between his language on this, the voting against Fallschase and Turbocor, he's lost my vote. Shame since I supported him the last two times.

Now don't get wrong, I'd much rather have TPD controlling it than Sheriff Bubba's posse. But I'm willing to make concessions to get this practical thing to happen. Why couldn't they just both run parts of the new consolidated police until one of them retires or whatever and then disolve their job. I mean we are already paying them both now, so this would be no different.

Why does it have to be so hard? It's not rocket science. We aren't inventing the wheel. Tons of other governments have done it. Why not just research what they did, find out which ones transitioned in the smoothest fashion and just mimic it. It can't be that hard. I guess it's always about fear, the most controlling emotion I think we have.

Get the personalities out of this and bring in the practical logical minds! It's time!

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thetoolman Whistle-Stop

thetoolman

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Maybe it is just my perception, but I always got the feeling that TPD was more sophisticated (at least in terms of equipment and training) than the Sheriffs office. I always get nervous when unfavorably comparing law enforcement agencies!

I did a ride-along with TPD a few years ago, and was impressed with the level of service to the community they provide. Also, when Office Green was killed in the line of duty a few years ago, I was very impressed with the show of force that participated the procession to the funeral. It seemed like there were 300 police cars from TPD alone.

Are the sizes of the two forces comparable? Maybe my perception is just that, a perception.

Is there any benefit to the fact the Sheriff is elected?

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poonther Town

poonther

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That is my perception too of the two agencies thetoolman. I always say that if I have to get arrested (not that I'm planning on it) let it be by TPD and not the Sheriff.

But I still want consolidation very much and I am willing to give and take a little to get it. Looks like they could implement a plan that slowly but surely allows this merger and the merger of all gov. functions to happen.

I think people like an elected sheriff better b/c it gives them a sense of being in control. Meaning they get to vote for who they think is best instead of having some official pick for them. That's my take on the situation.

Democrat says they postponed talking about this last night b/c commissioners were not there due to family illnesses. In the same brief, the Mayor and City Council members say this merger is NOT needed. Please!

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EbonyGardens Hamlet

EbonyGardens

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Whatever John Marks and the City council is smoking, it must be good to where they let something like that fly out of their mouths. Consolidation is the best thing that could possibly happen to Tallahassee & Leon County. All departments & services would be under one roof. Look at Miami-Dade, they joined forces and look how well they're doing.

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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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Whatever John Marks and the City council is smoking, it must be good to where they let something like that fly out of their mouths. Consolidation is the best thing that could possibly happen to Tallahassee & Leon County. All departments & services would be under one roof. Look at Miami-Dade, they joined forces and look how well they're doing.

Those comments weren't directed at total consolidation, but the consolidation of our Law Enforcement. In the past a major issue of debate was wether the Elected Sherriff would have authority over the Appointed Police Chief, or if there would be some other type of arrangement. A recent court ruling favors the Elected Sherriff, and seeing as how the Sheriff is tied to the county and the Police Chief to the City it is natural for The Mayor and Commission to take that stance.

Personally, I think whoever leads our law enforcement should answer to the people. I'm not sure "the people" always have the right answers when it comes to finding the most qualified candidates, therefore if we do fall under a system of Elected Law Enforcement cheif I think we ought to establish a very strict criteria for qualification in order to prevent the corruption of our system. That said, I believe both agencies do what they do well. And I'd prefer the title of Police Chief to a "Mayberry" sounding Sherriff.

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jpl02 Hamlet

jpl02

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Look at Miami-Dade, they joined forces and look how well they're doing.

No they didn't. That's the biggest misconception I hear from everyone. Miami did not merge with the county. It's still a seperate city. The county simply changed names.

Now, the structure of the govt works like this: Dade County provides some functions of goverment for the ENTIRE county, such as police, fire, garbage, courts etc. The individual cities provide other lesser functions. It's a two-tier form of government.

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poonther Town

poonther

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A recent court ruling favors the Elected Sherriff, and seeing as how the Sheriff is tied to the county and the Police Chief to the City it is natural for The Mayor and Commission to take that stance.

TJ, the city officials said that a merger is not needed. Again I hate when they speak in such destructive language. A better way IMO would have been to say something like "yes the City is interested in merging the two departments but an elected sheriff or the way the county is planning to do this merger is not in the best interest of the citizens. I think we could talk and come up w/a better plan." See that language leaves the door open for more and better talks. Saying it's not need or stupid like the county has said, just tries to sabotage the whole idea. You can really see when these talks come up that they are all trying to save their little fiefdoms and not thinking about saving the taxpayers money.

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thetoolman Whistle-Stop

thetoolman

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Seems like an independent board of community members would be the best way to get a fair analysis of what a city/county consolidation might look like. I do work with both the city and county, and often see opportunities for the two to work together, only to hear that they would just as soon try to shine on their own.

I think the biggest benefit of consolidation would be the removal of overlap and the focus of all regional money on [insert service here] by one dedicated group.

So, in my opinion, consolidation might not be as good (or likely) a solution as more focused cooperation. Take a fair look at who provides any overlapping services in a more efficient way, and consolidate those services to the more appropriate group. Or consolidate just the individual services, as is being considered with law enforcement.

That being said, is there any such overlap? Other than law enforcement, there seems to already be a difference between their services.

Leon County Departments

City of Tallahassee Departments

Overlap based on those lists:

-Parks and Rec

-Public Works

-Growth Management

-Planning

-Administrative (purchasing, HR, accounting, communications, etc. )

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P_McLane Whistle-Stop

P_McLane

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Faster permitting would be a good one, maybe one set of commissioners too!

Any consolidation effort should result in proportional representation within the new civil organization. Tallahassee is a city with economic and social concerns quite different from the unincorporated areas of Leon County. I would hate to see a consolidated city/county administrative body where a majority of the members of the leadership are driven by agendas other than the healthy growth and prosperity of the City of Tallahassee.

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  • 3 weeks later...
cityboy05 Hamlet

cityboy05

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Me and my friends at church were talking about the 2 were consolidated how many people from the different forces TPD and LCS control a certain area. I don't know if this true but I hear that about 350 TPD officers controls about an 8 mile radius while about 100 sheriffs control a 60 mile radius. Then I started to think maybe it won't be a bad idea for the 2 to consolidate.

I was at Jacksonville/Duval for spring break and was observing their consolidated force. How about they have their own force for the Duval school district. I just found that coool. Instead of just having Resource officers who are sheriffs we could have officers of a consolidated force to just patrol schools, how neat!

Overall the uniforms in Duval looked more police like with the city's logo.

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