City/County Consolidation

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

^ Yeah that's interesting how fast the County Rep. party turned against Desloge. I'm sure a smart man like him had good reasons for changing the races and stated that he'd give money back to those who gave b/c of the county-wide race.

Doesn't Will Messer run every time there is a public office election from dog catcher to county commissioner?

I expect it had something to do with how much the voters like Thaell and how the Desloge push poll last weekend showed that he didn't have a chance of winning the at-large seat. I do have a question. Is this the same Desloge who used to run the "private parking" towing service?

[Florida]

I kind of see things from a different perspective. It seems to me that the City bureaucracy is bloated with too many "middle" managers. County government does a whole lot more with a whole lot less. City Hall, and all it's various entities, are filled with little empires which suck up your tax (and utility profit) money with very little to show for it.

We're lucky to have a great Police Chief. We even luckier to have an incredible Sheriff. If I get upset with the Chief, I can whine to the City administration about him, but if I get upset with the Sheriff, I can work to get a different one elected. I like that.

For some strange reason, people in this state keep approving switching their elected officials into appointed ones. Perhaps we're lazy, but I'm for more elected officials and less bureaucracy.

My buttons were pressed so I had to respond to this one.

City has very little to show for the money they collect from the tax payers and the county does?!

City Provides:

Police

Fire Department

Airport

StarMetro

Utilities (Gas, Electric, Water, Sewer)

Best Parks In America...

shall I go on...

County Provides:

Sheriff

Library

EMS

Leon County government was half as progressive as the City of Tallahassee's we'd have much more to show for Economic Development in this community.

[Glenn]

I do have a question. Is this the same Desloge who used to run the "private parking" towing service?

Desloge runs a home oxygen & medical equipment company on Miccosukee Road near Riggins. I believe the towing company you reference is DeLoach Towing & Recovery.

[gatoremt]

If I am not mistaken I heard a rumor that the sheriff will not be running next time. I heard he is going to retire.

[Florida]

Campbell is a closet republican. And the reason Deslouge switched to Grippa's seat is because his chances of winning that district are greater than his chances of winning an At Large seat on the commission as a republican.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

My buttons were pressed so I had to respond to this one.

City has very little to show for the money they collect from the tax payers and the county does?!

City Provides:

Police

Fire Department

Airport

StarMetro

Utilities (Gas, Electric, Water, Sewer)

Best Parks In America...

shall I go on...

County Provides:

Sheriff

Library

EMS

Leon County government was half as progressive as the City of Tallahassee's we'd have much more to show for Economic Development in this community.

Let's look at each of your items.

Law Enforcement -- I think that the SO folks do a great job. TPD does a great job. I'd rather have a voice on who the chief law enforcement officer is, so I am more in favor of the SO expanding and TPD being absorbed. I'm happy with both staffs and both managements. We're very fortunate here considering what has been happening west of here and among some of the LE folks appointed by the current state administration

Fire Dept. -- For years and years and years, those of us who live in the county were ignored by the city FD. Some really great people, who don't get thanked often enough, took matters in their own hands and started a series of volunteer fire departments. The city FD empire/firefighters union doesn't care much for the volunteer departments. At fires and medical emergencies, the VFD's are allowed a very minor role, despite having extensive training and certifications. Rural Metro, the folks who came in with a lower bid to provide the same service that we're paying the city empire for, understand the vaule of volunteers and make good use of them in the territories they have contracts in.

The airport (and the public transportastion system) are regional resources. They should be paid for regionaly and governed regionally. Taltran or whatever it's being called these days, used to be a private operation. When the city took it over, they agreed to keep on the existing director until he died or retired. I guess one of those things finally happened and it looks like someone is paying a bit of attention. To understand Taltran, you have to understand where it came from. It was developed as way of getting low income workers from the more humble parts of town to the homes and offices of the rich folk where they did domesitc and janitorial work. The new folks who are running things at Taltran seem to have good visions but are ultimately crippled by being part of the city bureaucracy and that same power elite.

The utilities. Owning the power company is the reason that the city has the bucks to fund the bloat. It's a mixed blessing. I don't know about the coal plant good or bad, but am going to be paying very close attention to who the incumbent city commissioners get campaign contributions from or post commission jobs with.

The Best Parks in America? All I can say is you must not do a lot of traveling. We do an OK job of acquiring park land, but a lot of what has been accquired recently is the result of county development standards. The City Commission has a recent history of taking land that was donated to the City for use as a park, and selling it to a developer. We can be proud of our parks. They are pretty good for a metro of our size, but there are many other metros in this country which have done much better job of preserving nature for the citizens.

Then there's Caitol City Country Club, which is actaully the city golf course. Rather than allow people of color to play there, the city leased it to an exclusive private club. I'm sure that rich people of all colors play there now, but it's way past time to take that resource back. I frequently hear commissioners from both commissions saying that they "don't care what previous commissions decided, this is a new commission and can revisit anything." Let's revisit that unfortuate decision.

Look, I know that between the antics of Grippa the brain trust, Depuy the Rush Limgaugh wannabe, Proctor the (until he sold out) angry young man, Ratcliff the grumpy guy, etc. that the county commission is a bit of a circus. That's the way democracy works. If you don't like the bozo's who are there, elect new bozos (and I appologize to all professional clowns for guilt by association).

[gatoremt]

Fire Dept. -- For years and years and years, those of us who live in the county were ignored by the city FD. Some really great people, who don't get thanked often enough, took matters in their own hands and started a series of volunteer fire departments. The city FD empire/firefighters union doesn't care much for the volunteer departments. At fires and medical emergencies, the VFD's are allowed a very minor role, despite having extensive training and certifications. Rural Metro, the folks who came in with a lower bid to provide the same service that we're paying the city empire for, understand the vaule of volunteers and make good use of them in the territories they have contracts in.

AMEN

I am a Vol FF in the county and we get NO RESPECT. From EMS or TFD. We get more from EMS than we do from TFD. If it was up to TFD we would not even be here. It is very sad. I have been on several other Vol Fire departments and the ones in Leon County are very much handcuffed by TFD. TFD is so scared of the Volunteers for some reason. They just cant understand that, WE WANT TO HELP and that is it.

[poonther]

Leon County government was half as progressive as the City of Tallahassee's we'd have much more to show for Economic Development in this community.

Amen TJ!

Ghost , all your rebuttal points make excellent points for consolidation IMO.

I'm on the fence about elected or appointed head of LE. I understand why electing them is good, but that also creates nothing more than a popularity contest and the one who raises the most money. That money is usually given just by a handful of influential people/families, so wouldn't having an appointed LE head give us a better chance at getting a truly qualified person and not just Billy Bob's Uncle's Brother's beer drinking buddy?

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Amen TJ!

Ghost , all your rebuttal points make excellent points for consolidation IMO.

I'm on the fence about elected or appointed head of LE. I understand why electing them is good, but that also creates nothing more than a popularity contest and the one who raises the most money. That money is usually given just by a handful of influential people/families, so wouldn't having an appointed LE head give us a better chance at getting a truly qualified person and not just Billy Bob's Uncle's Brother's beer drinking buddy?

That's what ALL elections are in this country. I'd love a consititutional amendment that made it a felony to spend money on an election. Then it would be about ideas and a whole lot more of a horse race. The problem with "appointed" leaders is you got to trust the people who do the appointing. I know it's difficult to be an informed citizen, especially with the current state of our media here in the Big Bend and elsewhere, but if you're going to live here, it's your duty.

I don't see that my rebuttal points are pro-consolidation. My thesis is that big government bureaucracies are inefficent, and isolated from the citizens. Giving the power mongers in Tallahassee cirty government more money and power is not a good idea. I'm much more in favor of downsizing the city middle management.

[Florida]

Let's look at each of your items.

In your list there are few things you've noted as reasons we should go with county rule over the city. I take things as they are seen from the citizen's perspective. Where is the money spent that we pay into the county? Why does the county not own a utility, or transportation company. Why doesn't the county provide fire service to the citizens? Why aren't there any sidewalks in county neighborhoods? Why is the unincorporated area without proper sewage and storm water treatment?

And this is a response from the TallyVision thread, why is it a crime for the city to use it's Public Access channel to educate the public and inform us on whats going on with the City regarding law enforcement, economic development, environmental issues, and job openings? Leon County, The School Board, The State of Florida and others have their own access channels, in addition to FSU and FAMU. Each entity is allowed to use its channel as it sees fit. I'm personally proud of what the city does with WCOT, I think its a model for other cities. I've yet to go to another city with a better "City Channel" as ours. Who here hasn't enjoyed a segment on downtown development, a city commission meeting, or looked to see what jobs are open from time to time? I'd wish the county would provide the same service.

Tell me ghost, what's your real beef with the city?

[gatoremt]

Why doesn't the county provide fire service to the citizens?

They do provide fire service to the county. Through us Volunteers and dont they give the city a certain amount of money to have TFD in the county stations? I know Quillin is pushing to have the county take over the fire service.

[Florida]

Why doesn't the county provide fire service, similar to the city's services for residents living outside of the city limits? In other words, why is there not a seperate Leon County Fire Department?

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

In your list there are few things you've noted as reasons we should go with county rule over the city. I take things as they are seen from the citizen's perspective. Where is the money spent that we pay into the county? Why does the county not own a utility, or transportation company. Why doesn't the county provide fire service to the citizens? Why aren't there any sidewalks in county neighborhoods? Why is the unincorporated area without proper sewage and storm water treatment?

And this is a response from the TallyVision thread, why is it a crime for the city to use it's Public Access channel to educate the public and inform us on whats going on with the City regarding law enforcement, economic development, environmental issues, and job openings? Leon County, The School Board, The State of Florida and others have their own access channels, in addition to FSU and FAMU. Each entity is allowed to use its channel as it sees fit. I'm personally proud of what the city does with WCOT, I think its a model for other cities. I've yet to go to another city with a better "City Channel" as ours. Who here hasn't enjoyed a segment on downtown development, a city commission meeting, or looked to see what jobs are open from time to time? I'd wish the county would provide the same service.

Tell me ghost, what's your real beef with the city?

Dude, I have no beef with the city. This city has been very, very good to me. I'm comfortable, have a full belly, and can afford to keep the personal fleet gassed and insured. It's not a crime for the city to use cable. It's just a waste of the tax payers money to fund little empires in city hall. If those stories that WCOT run are worthwile, the local media will run them. Let's not spend taxpayer money on something that hardly anyone views.

I'm just using WCOT as an example. If you really want to get me started, ask me about the city fleet management department and their useless middle management.

[seminole]

In your list there are few things you've noted as reasons we should go with county rule over the city. I take things as they are seen from the citizen's perspective. Where is the money spent that we pay into the county? Why does the county not own a utility, or transportation company. Why doesn't the county provide fire service to the citizens? Why aren't there any sidewalks in county neighborhoods? Why is the unincorporated area without proper sewage and storm water treatment?

And this is a response from the TallyVision thread, why is it a crime for the city to use it's Public Access channel to educate the public and inform us on whats going on with the City regarding law enforcement, economic development, environmental issues, and job openings? Leon County, The School Board, The State of Florida and others have their own access channels, in addition to FSU and FAMU. Each entity is allowed to use its channel as it sees fit. I'm personally proud of what the city does with WCOT, I think its a model for other cities. I've yet to go to another city with a better "City Channel" as ours. Who here hasn't enjoyed a segment on downtown development, a city commission meeting, or looked to see what jobs are open from time to time? I'd wish the county would provide the same service.

Tell me ghost, what's your real beef with the city?

TJ you are absolutely correct - WCOT is a wonderful channel and I'm looking forward to expanded coverage now that we have a city commission that actually wants to see some economic development in our city. I have an idea, let's stop televising those clowns who label themselves as county commissioners. Actually let's just do away with the county government period and save ourselves the embarrassment of having them represent our Capital City.

[gatoremt]

Why doesn't the county provide fire service, similar to the city's services for residents living outside of the city limits? In other words, why is there not a seperate Leon County Fire Department?

That is a good question. I am sure it has something to do with money. I know that Quillin is trying to get the county to have it's own FD. I would like to see it so we the Vol. FF would fall under the county insteed of TFD. Then maybe we would be able to do more.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

TJ you are absolutely correct - WCOT is a wonderful channel and I'm looking forward to expanded coverage now that we have a city commission that actually wants to see some economic development in our city. I have an idea, let's stop televising those clowns who label themselves as county commissioners. Actually let's just do away with the county government period and save ourselves the embarrassment of having them represent our Capital City.

Another vote for the more government bloat faction. I'm getting the idea that quite a few people on this board are government employees, or folks that make money off of city contracts. I can't think of any other people for whom supporting wasteful city spending is making a positive impact on their lives. The reason that consolidation has failed over-and-over again is that most smart people want to limit the waste, high taxes, etc. that big government brings. What if we took those 5 WCOT FTE (one of you city employees...am I correct about the number of fte?) and turned them into nurses at the Bond clinic or teachers in a public school? Then they'd actually be doing something productive.

I'm not much of a tin foil hat conspiricy theorist, but a small part of me wonders if some of the current county commissioners were put there to act like idiots in order to make people think that county government is worthless.

You're right. Those "city talk" roundtable discussions on WCOT are thrilling. I Tivo every one of them so instead of just being able to watch them 4 times a day for two weeks, I can play them continually.

Occasionally they put out an interesting piece but at what cost? When did the role of government expand to include entertainment? I'm all in favor of a television feature on the very significant history of the bus boycott in Tallahassee. Let's encourage WCTV to produce more local stuff instead of paying for a whole production team for the very rare interesting piece.

Hey, I got a good idea. Since the Democrat, Capital Outlook, FSView, FAMUAN, and the Tortoise all tend to ignore the very intersting world of city government middle management, the city ought to start a daily paper. We can hire some mediocre writers, do a few stories a week, and then publish the same paper every day for weeks. It will get at least as big a share as WCOT does (anyone want to make a guess on that, by the way?). It will have an additional benefit of providing lining for litter boxes.

[gatoremt]

Hey, I got a good idea. Since the Democrat, Capital Outlook, FSView, FAMUAN, and the Tortoise all tend to ignore the very intersting world of city government middle management, the city ought to start a daily paper. We can hire some mediocre writers, do a few stories a week, and then publish the same paper every day for weeks. It will get at least as big a share as WCOT does (anyone want to make a guess on that, by the way?). It will have an additional benefit of providing lining for litter boxes.

They could only do better than the DemoCRAP.

[psycuda]

Another vote for the more government bloat faction. I'm getting the idea that quite a few people on this board are government employees, or folks that make money off of city contracts. I can't think of any other people for whom supporting wasteful city spending is making a positive impact on their lives. The reason that consolidation has failed over-and-over again is that most smart people want to limit the waste, high taxes, etc. that big government brings. What if we took those 5 WCOT FTE (one of you city employees...am I correct about the number of fte?) and turned them into nurses at the Bond clinic or teachers in a public school? Then they'd actually be doing something productive.

I'm not much of a tin foil hat conspiricy theorist, but a small part of me wonders if some of the current county commissioners were put there to act like idiots in order to make people think that county government is worthless.

You're right. Those "city talk" roundtable discussions on WCOT are thrilling. I Tivo every one of them so instead of just being able to watch them 4 times a day for two weeks, I can play them continually.

Occasionally they put out an interesting piece but at what cost? When did the role of government expand to include entertainment? I'm all in favor of a television feature on the very significant history of the bus boycott in Tallahassee. Let's encourage WCTV to produce more local stuff instead of paying for a whole production team for the very rare interesting piece.

Hey, I got a good idea. Since the Democrat, Capital Outlook, FSView, FAMUAN, and the Tortoise all tend to ignore the very intersting world of city government middle management, the city ought to start a daily paper. We can hire some mediocre writers, do a few stories a week, and then publish the same paper every day for weeks. It will get at least as big a share as WCOT does (anyone want to make a guess on that, by the way?). It will have an additional benefit of providing lining for litter boxes.

Welcome to the world of "Government as business", where a PR section is part of the baggage (instead of spending the monies on resources for the public library).

[seminole]

Another vote for the more government bloat faction. I'm getting the idea that quite a few people on this board are government employees, or folks that make money off of city contracts. I can't think of any other people for whom supporting wasteful city spending is making a positive impact on their lives. The reason that consolidation has failed over-and-over again is that most smart people want to limit the waste, high taxes, etc. that big government brings. What if we took those 5 WCOT FTE (one of you city employees...am I correct about the number of fte?) and turned them into nurses at the Bond clinic or teachers in a public school? Then they'd actually be doing something productive.

I'm not much of a tin foil hat conspiricy theorist, but a small part of me wonders if some of the current county commissioners were put there to act like idiots in order to make people think that county government is worthless.

You're right. Those "city talk" roundtable discussions on WCOT are thrilling. I Tivo every one of them so instead of just being able to watch them 4 times a day for two weeks, I can play them continually.

Occasionally they put out an interesting piece but at what cost? When did the role of government expand to include entertainment? I'm all in favor of a television feature on the very significant history of the bus boycott in Tallahassee. Let's encourage WCTV to produce more local stuff instead of paying for a whole production team for the very rare interesting piece.

Hey, I got a good idea. Since the Democrat, Capital Outlook, FSView, FAMUAN, and the Tortoise all tend to ignore the very intersting world of city government middle management, the city ought to start a daily paper. We can hire some mediocre writers, do a few stories a week, and then publish the same paper every day for weeks. It will get at least as big a share as WCOT does (anyone want to make a guess on that, by the way?). It will have an additional benefit of providing lining for litter boxes.

Another vote for the more government bloat faction. I'm getting the idea that quite a few people on this board are government employees, or folks that make money off of city contracts. I can't think of any other people for whom supporting wasteful city spending is making a positive impact on their lives. The reason that consolidation has failed over-and-over again is that most smart people want to limit the waste, high taxes, etc. that big government brings. What if we took those 5 WCOT FTE (one of you city employees...am I correct about the number of fte?) and turned them into nurses at the Bond clinic or teachers in a public school? Then they'd actually be doing something productive.

I have always been a strong advocate for more corporations in Tallahassee, especially downtown and I don't work for the city. Actually, we can probably save a lot more of taxpayers dollars if we abolish the County Commission - gee what a waste of funds.

I'm not much of a tin foil hat conspiricy theorist, but a small part of me wonders if some of the current county commissioners were put there to act like idiots in order to make people think that county government is worthless.

Finally, they are good at something and they are certainly doing a bangup job.

You're right. Those "city talk" roundtable discussions on WCOT are thrilling. I Tivo every one of them so instead of just being able to watch them 4 times a day for two weeks, I can play them continually.

Oh but I'm sure there will be additional programs as Tallahassee continues to evolve. The city has even added the "city workshops" to their scheduling and I absolutely love that program and the "city commission meetings". Let's include more programming on economic development, storm water management (cascades parks), Gaines Street Revitalization, and an update on other developments in Tallahassee. WCOT is the perfect forum for these programs.

Occasionally they put out an interesting piece but at what cost? When did the role of government expand to include entertainment? I'm all in favor of a television feature on the very significant history of the bus boycott in Tallahassee. Let's encourage WCTV to produce more local stuff instead of paying for a whole production team for the very rare interesting piece.

I guess "interesting" is in the eye of the beholder and I certainly don't want to rely on WCTV to provide me an indepth coverage of the programs I referenced above. The "workshops" are very informative and I don't won't the dissemination of information to be compromised for the sake of limited air time.

Hey, I got a good idea. Since the Democrat, Capital Outlook, FSView, FAMUAN, and the Tortoise all tend to ignore the very intersting world of city government middle management, the city ought to start a daily paper. We can hire some mediocre writers, do a few stories a week, and then publish the same paper every day for weeks. It will get at least as big a share as WCOT does (anyone want to make a guess on that, by the way?). It will have an additional benefit of providing lining for litter boxes.

I don't own a litter box and don't want to see any more useless newspapers. If Tallahassee wants to boast about economic diversity and implementing new innovative technologies, then WCOT is the perfect tool for informing its' citizens.

[JBarber]

Chaging races from at-large to District is turning into a publicity coup for Bryan Desloge. I'm no politcal operative, but it seems the biggest challenge in campaigning for a local government seat (with no media saturation) is name recognition. People go to the polls to vote for president or governor, then just look for familiar names on the ballot in the other races.

Desloge is getting lots of face and name time in the Democrat. It can only help him. I doubt his changing races was a ploy, more likely recognizing he could not beat Thaell, but I bet it pays off in the end.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

Does anyone know who John Griffin, the candidate who quallified for the At Large seat against Cliff Thaell, is?

[Florida]

I don't know anything about these candidates. Has the paper done profiles yet?

It already looks like this School Board Superintendent dude is going to win. I don't remember his name, but I see his signs everywhere. Does the man have any competition?

[gatoremt]

Jackie Ponds. He is a great guy. I am not sure if anyone is running against him. I know a lot of the teacher are for him getting it.

[Florida]

I don't want to know his political affiliation because if I don't agree with it I might have to support a looser! The guy should win in a land slide. Principal of Deerlake right?

[gatoremt]

Yep. He was also at Rickards HS. He was a basketball coach.