Artist proposal for Plaza on Fayetteville Street

[raleighfan]

Wow, that is really too bad. But I can't blame him at all and would have done the same thing. Er, if I had $2.5 mil to give in the first place...

[IBruton]

On one hand, I feel bad about this. On the other hand, I'm happy he's pulled his gift back. This area is (apparently) too conservative to handle something like this, which is very sad.

This is not about conservatism....I'm further to the right than Rush Limbaugh and I support this project. Politics and good 'ole boy mentality are not the issues here. The city council has legitimate concerns, that granted, they should have looked into before the money was gifted.

While today is a sad day for Raleigh arts, perhaps it can serve as a guide for future public art projects. Think on the bright side, Raleigh is still the cultural center of North Carolina.

[plus2]

In a way I am glad too. It shows the community that it can't nit pick every art project and still get what it wants.

[DanRNC]

Once again Raleigh falls flat on its face. What a city of goons, or at least incompetents. Raleigh=Charlotte if you know what I mean-bland, vanilla, boring, stiff, and ultimately lame. Like I have said before and mark my words, this is the beginning of the end for any momentum downtown. If Raleigh likes self-destruction then they should enjoy everything currently going. North Hills is quickly falling apart from its initial hyped vision, rail transit is gone, downtown is on its way to failure, and this list goes on. Next up for the Raleigh destructionists is Dix. Wait until you see what happens with that project.

[Transplant]

This is not about conservatism....I'm further to the right than Rush Limbaugh and I support this project. Politics and good 'ole boy mentality are not the issues here. The city council has legitimate concerns, that granted, they should have looked into before the money was gifted.

While today is a sad day for Raleigh arts, perhaps it can serve as a guide for future public art projects. Think on the bright side, Raleigh is still the cultural center of North Carolina.

This is conservative, at least by the definition where conservative means "traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness"

This has nothing to do with political conservativism, I agree.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I think he walked away with class while gently rubbing dirt in the citys' face for not setting requirements early on. I was surprised Pensa came back and said he wanted to be part of it after all the noise. I do think Wheeler, Goodman and Pensa got together and felt this was the best way to end it.

Hey, there is always the big Sir Walter statue that needs a home !!

For the conservatism comment, I think the original poster meant visual conservatism, not political or social. In fact, as a private funded art project, any political conservative that was against this project is just a "blow-hard". (private funded, private enterprise artist, Libertarian market survival outside of visual non-acceptance)

[Justin6882]

I'm glad he pulled it - screw em.

[reed]

Once again Raleigh falls flat on its face. What a city of goons, or at least incompetents. Raleigh=Charlotte if you know what I mean-bland, vanilla, boring, stiff, and ultimately lame. Like I have said before and mark my words, this is the beginning of the end for any momentum downtown. If Raleigh likes self-destruction then they should enjoy everything currently going. North Hills is quickly falling apart from its initial hyped vision, rail transit is gone, downtown is on its way to failure, and this list goes on. Next up for the Raleigh destructionists is Dix. Wait until you see what happens with that project.

I'm not happy with this development, either. But I think Raleigh is far from a city of goons, and I don't think this will have a very large impact on downtown's momentum, either. I rather like living downtown and take the good w/ the bad.

[ncwebguy]

I don't fault anyone for not wanting to pay $2.5 million for a "gutted" project. Jaume Plensa proposed a gathering space plaza and Jim Goodmon belived in it so much he was willing to bankroll it. I hope this doesn't change Capitol Broadcasting's desire to move into the RBC tower.

NC Museum of Art director Larry Wheeler's quote sounds like sour grapes. "I blame the opening of Fayetteville Street for this falling apart. The parade, the public frenzy of being able to march down the street between the Capitol and the performing arts center." When was the parade route/closable street aspect *not* a part of reopening F Street? The Plensa project started *after* it was determined Fayetville Street was to be reopened but *before* the old CC was leveled. People were so used to the old plaza created by the old CC, no one knew just how striking the new vista would be.

The killing of the chandilers and now this will leave The Street with less "high tech" art. F Street can still be a meeting place, especially the twin courtyards in front of One and Two Hannover. The Bank of America building appears to be upfitting the lobby that fronts the plaza to attract more use to it. One of its Wilmington Street storefronts is now a fitness center, and the other space could be attractive once Site One gets closer to completion.

There also seems to be fencing around where the existing parking deck under the plaza meets Fayetville Street to the north, so maybe this is being nixed for structural reasons as well?

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I don't fault anyone for not wanting to pay $2.5 million for a "gutted" project. Jaume Plensa proposed a gathering space plaza and Jim Goodmon belived in it so much he was willing to bankroll it. I hope this doesn't change Capitol Broadcasting's desire to move into the RBC tower.

I do remember Capitol Broadcasting's /Wral talking about moving into the RBC building. But nothing that RBC has said or shown has given any life to this idea. Have you heard or seen somthing about this that you can share?

[ChiefJoJo]

It's a shame the process went the way it did. I like Plensa's project, but it never had the support of the city leaders. Who decided that a square would go in that spot? The only mention I ever found was buried in the South End Plan (earlier in this topic), but that was never approved by the council. The public process was the failure in this effort, and it really makes Raleigh look silly, when the actual decision to place a public square in that spot isn't necessarily a bad one.

Dan, you are one negative guy. Raleigh has a long way to go as far becoming an vibrant urban city, but the sun will come up tomorrow, and I think there are far worse places to live.

[drewpiece]

A damn shame. That's all I have to say.

[RaleighLover]

Well, that's this city for you. We're a national embarrassment. Can't blame Goodman, I would have done the same. If I'm putting up that much money as a gift for art than they damn well better respect it, but the Raleigh City Council and Mayor Meeker, as usual, did not.

[RaleighRick]

Come on guys, lets be honest, outside of this forum a very small percentage of people in Raleigh give a damn about this project one way or the other. This decision will have zero effect on Raleigh. It's not going to affect the $1billion + investment going on downtown. It's not going to slow down the number of people relocating here in record numbers from other parts of the country. It's not going to stop Raleigh from being rated one of the best places in the country to do business, start a business, live, retire, or any other accolade we have received recently. No one ever moved here or considered moving their business here because of our world famous art.

I agree it would have been great if this art piece had worked out, but it also would have been great if RBC had proposed a 40 story tower, if the Marriott was actually attractive, if Reynolds had come through on his 32+ story tower, if the RBC Center was downtown, if a trolley line ran down F street. None of those happened, yet we are still at the beginning of an unprecidented boom downtown that will double the size of our center city by the end of 2008. Seems like a lot to be excited about to me.

DwnTwnRaleighGuy: I have been told by an exec. that WRAL is considering moving to Site 1 not RBC.

[Justin6882]

^I thought the whole reason WRAL was mentioned to be moving into RBC was because Goodmon is on the board of RBC-Centura...actually I seem to recall reading somewhere that it would happen at RBC or nowhere at all.

[willrusso]

Jaume Plensa has withdrawn from the public art project.... such a shame.

http://www.wral.com/news/9828129/detail.html

[DanRNC]

My friends, Raleigh is getting trumped by Durham which quietly seems to be doing everything right. I much rather hang somewhere that has something going on.

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[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Come on guys, lets be honest, outside of this forum a very small percentage of people in Raleigh give a damn about this project one way or the other. This decision will have zero effect on Raleigh. It's not going to affect the $1billion + investment going on downtown. It's not going to slow down the number of people relocating here in record numbers from other parts of the country. It's not going to stop Raleigh from being rated one of the best places in the country to do business, start a business, live, retire, or any other accolade we have received recently. No one ever moved here or considered moving their business here because of our world famous art.

I agree it would have been great if this art piece had worked out, but it also would have been great if RBC had proposed a 40 story tower, if the Marriott was actually attractive, if Reynolds had come through on his 32+ story tower, if the RBC Center was downtown, if a trolley line ran down F street. None of those happened, yet we are still at the beginning of an unprecidented boom downtown that will double the size of our center city by the end of 2008. Seems like a lot to be excited about to me.

DwnTwnRaleighGuy: I have been told by an exec. that WRAL is considering moving to Site 1 not RBC.

Totally with you on all the afore mentioned!!!

You are also right that in that we should be grateful for all that downtown Raleigh will be given in a short period of time!

Thanks for the info on WRAL, site 1 looks like it would be a very nice place to be!

[DanRNC]

What has Raleigh been given-that dead stretch of concrete? Read Dennis Roger's editorial in the N&O today or the tone of Goodmon. Raleigh struck out big time. It essentially alienated one of the top business leaders in the city/region, one that actually has money and vision.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

My friends, Raleigh is getting trumped by Durham which quietly seems to be doing everything right. I much rather hang somewhere that has something going on.

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Many years ago, I lived in Durham, really a great place to live and enjoy a slower pace of life.

Yes the DBAT is very nice to go to and if we had a train from Raleigh to Durham I would certainly go to shopping/eating/ballgame just for a different pace,(I hate driving). But I have to say except for the Streets at Southpoint in Durham, it is really a bit to slow for me. Even my dear sweet wonderful Raleigh had been slow up until a number of years ago. Don't get me wrong, I think we need everything that both Durham and Raleigh have to offer, slow and fast, I just prefer things in the faster lane at this juncture in my life. And for anyone who says move to Charlotte, Atlanta, NY,etc. Let me say that my family is most important to me and Raleigh/Triangle is were I belong and will stay. Thank you!

[ncwebguy]

Now I get it... DanRNC and Jim Goodmon are similar to the Chewlies gum salesman in the movie Clerks. For the uninitiated, the salesman goes into the convenience store "just to buy a pack of gum", but is really there to get people to stop smoking and buy his gum.

The same parallel can be drawn to the City Square project. Goodmon acts as an average customer with $2.5 million to spend in Raleigh. He even plays nice by reducing the budget from $16 million to $4 million though never discusses what changes were made. When Raleigh balks, he takes the money and runs.... to gum, I mean Durham. And what do you know? Durham has a plaza with a bull in it just waiting for other art and cars were never in the picture. Jaume Plensa has a project with a technological bent and Durham just happens to be in the process of rebranding itself as a tech hub. And Jim Goodmon's Capitol Broadcasting just happens to own the Durham Bulls and the land around them -- Diamond View, American Tobacco, etc. Why put anything into Raleigh when you've spent all kinds of money and vision on Durham already? What "ties" does Goodmon have to Raleigh? A TV studio on Western Blvd. and the radio station building that they plan on leaving. When City Square and the WRAL studios wind up somewhere in Downtown Durham, don't be suprised.

For the cost of a few plane tickets and a few days of an artist's time, why *not* throw Raleigh's budding reputation under the bus to make your projects look more impressive? Or in DanR's case, why not declare DT Raleigh a vagrant capitol? Who needs numbers or proof? If you turn a blind eye to the vagrants and gunplay already present in the bull city's core, they don't exist! Hooray!

[DanRNC]

Now I get it... DanRNC and Jim Goodmon are similar to the Chewlies gum salesman in the movie Clerks. For the uninitiated, the salesman goes into the convenience store "just to buy a pack of gum", but is really there to get people to stop smoking and buy his gum.