Artist proposal for Plaza on Fayetteville Street

[ChiefJoJo]

I think a world-renowned artist from the amazing, beautiful city of Barcelona, Spain has a better idea of what is timeless and classic than a bunch of armchair critics in Raleigh NC. It is my opinion that we are very lucky to have this opportunity here, with someone of Plensa's calibre creating a place for us. It is really disheartening to see people using words like tacky, dated, cheesy, etc before the details of the project have even been worked out.

I agree 100%, and I think Jones' point is well taken about this square being one part of the whole Fayetteville St attraction, and I think this will be the perfect spot for this piece. Actually, the fact it's creating controversy only reinforces my support for doing this project. We need to take risks and be bold. I say, lets move on with City Square and the Chandeliers!

[RaleighRick]

I would not question Plensa's art, but if I could change one thing about the project I would move it to the parking lots in front of the Project Energy Center as someone has mentioned. This is such an important piece of art, why cram it in the middle of Fayetteville St. after we went through all the trouble to open it up. The parking lots would provide for a much larger, more open space for people to gather, play and enjoy the art. Street vendors and local artists and musicians would have room to participate and create more energy. It would be in a better location for people to access having 4 roads as it's borders and feel much more open without the buildings crowding it.

I know the City plans on using that space for a couple of buildings but that location has always seemed to be the perfect place for some type of public space. There are plenty of other parking lots available to build more buildings on.

[MR-2]

It looks like it will be in the middle of a parking lot, connecting two strips of Fayetteville street together. It'll just be an incredibly wide median.

There are lots of ways to do this. It'll probably turn out fine. That square will be really dense once the hotel/condos are up near it.

[bdp]

gotta check out the opinion page of the NandO this morning... a few people have taken the time out of their busy schedules to write letters in trashing the proposed plaza. i don't understand how people only seem to see negative possibilities... i think that if it were a 'classical, timeless' fountain with lions and naked angels that Plensa had designed, these same people would be writing in saying we need something that speaks to the future, something that evokes our high tech economy. people just love to complain and feel like they are the only ones with brains who can see the fatal flaws in the world around them. well... you know what? if you look for flaws, no matter where you are, you are going to find them. the trick is to go through life without looking for things to complain about. thats my little lesson for the day. here's a link, if you want a good laugh.

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/413861.html

[dmccall]

I agree with you about the complaints that would ensue if a traditional fountain were installed. I mean, what about the motorcycle and wheelchair drivers that would get doused in the wind, right?

I think the canopy can be designed to scare off pigeons. All it would take is some kind of movement of the grid or streamers to spook the stupid birds.

Anyone wondering how he can do all of this for just $2.5M??? I wonder if funds for the plaza and street construction would come out of dedicated Fayetteville street paving funds.

[bdp]

hahah i am glad you brought that up, i really thought it seemed like a really ambitious project for 2.5 million. there must be more money coming in from somewhere. maybe the 2.5 million just pays for the grassy area?

[bdp]

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/s...editorial1.html

just Dale Gibson's take on the proposals for downtown, including the chandeliers. worth reading, IMO.

[Jones_]

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/s...editorial1.html

just Dale Gibson's take on the proposals for downtown, including the chandeliers. worth reading, IMO.

Amen! The opinion of someone who has lived here 50 years also smacks of a slant towards preference to gut downtown for parking lots and shape development guidlines for the 'burbs and leave downtown wanting. If this person is normally aligned in favor of downtown renewal then he needs to make that clear or I will continue to laugh and consider his opinion moot.

[bdp]

i am so glad you said that. every time i hear or read about someone saying 'well when i rode down fayetteville street on a hay-wagon, we had tasteful gas lamps, let's bring back the times of yesteryear' or some other BS all I can think is that they are the same generation of people who abandoned downtown in favor of the 'burbs, so wtf are they doing trying to criticize what's being done now. it really gets to me...

[Transplant]

i am so glad you said that. every time i hear or read about someone saying 'well when i rode down fayetteville street on a hay-wagon, we had tasteful gas lamps, let's bring back the times of yesteryear' or some other BS all I can think is that they are the same generation of people who abandoned downtown in favor of the 'burbs, so wtf are they doing trying to criticize what's being done now. it really gets to me...

So true..... although, I like the idea of gas lamps.

[ChiefJoJo]

Wow, I couldn't agree more. All these people who have done nothing for DT in 30 years all of a sudden care so much about what happens there. Total BS. They should just sit on the sidelines like they have for decades and let the rest of us determine DT's future. Let's build the chandeliers and the city square.

[ncwebguy]

With the Plensa piece in place, maybe the existing Sheraton would create a pick up/drop off station on Fayetville street? The existing loop seems so uninviting and dark, I hate thinking that is the first thing out of state visitors interact with when they arrive there.

If people wanted the existing mall to stay, they should have used it. But they already have spoken through their indifference, and things are changing for the better.

Also, the TBJ column mentions one forgotten piece of "art" that was on the old mall -- the Sir Walter Raleigh statue. Mr. Raleigh was hidden in a ring of trees just south of the capitol, but I could see his new home being one of the street corners with the new wide sidewalks. In the short term, Fayetville will have four intersections with cross streets -- Morgan, Hargett, Martin and Davie. The Plensa installation could account for Davie, the glass lights should highlight Martin and Hargett, and the SWR statue could "guard" the Fayetville entrance from Morgan. Putting it in a median would obscure the view, which seems to be a big no-no, but putting it there would "soften the transition from Capitol Sqaure to the new center of it all.

[Justin6882]

I thought they were going to stick Sir Walter Raleigh at the end of New Bern Place - too bad if you ask me, no one will ever see him.

[Jones_]

I thought they were going to stick Sir Walter Raleigh at the end of New Bern Place - too bad if you ask me, no one will ever see him.

I actually thought it was going down near where Plensa's piece will go.

[Justin6882]

I actually thought it was going down near where Plensa's piece will go.

Maybe so -- hasn't it been a year since we sent him off to get cleaned and restored? He should be back by now.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I love statues like Sir Walter. I wish we could get more like him. When I was in Mexico City a couple of years ago they had some really cool statues placed all over the city in and around the markets and such. They even had more interesting ones,(nude women and men). I don't think that would fly in Raleigh though.

[bdp]

last i heard, Mr. Raleigh was going to be stuck at the culdesac of New Bern Place. i also remember vaguely, that some group of citizens was going to try and change this. i hope they do.

[bdp]

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/415579.html

god, why don't we just leave fayetteville street red clay, and take away electric service, and running water, and really relive the good old days... where do these people come from?!? what makes them think they are the only people who are brilliant enough to see the problems with something? why is he going to throw toilet paper and shoes up in the air?! what a freak...

[ncwebguy]

What do I need to keep Sir Walter from ending up on New Bern Place? Please let me know now before it is too late!!! The road itself is a symbol of why realigning the downtonw grid is a bad idea -- imagine New Bern approaching the capitol from the east the way Hillsborough does from the west. But the State DOT didn't want the traffic outside its building, so in the late 60s/early 70s it created the Morgan/Edenton corridor, destroying the some of the character of East Raleigh and one of its institutions (St. Monica church and school, near where the Bojangles at Edenton and Tarboro is now) in the process.

Sir Walter may be out of place right next to Plensa, but could add to the street character by the Mariott or anywhere space allows along Fayetville street (RBC? Site 1?).

Why is it that Fayetville Street should hail back to the old days, but the bridge near Falls Dam and anywhere near Glenwood or Capital should have the latest and greatest, sparing no expense?

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

What do I need to keep Sir Walter from ending up on New Bern Place? Please let me know now before it is too late!!! The road itself is a symbol of why realigning the downtonw grid is a bad idea -- imagine New Bern approaching the capitol from the east the way Hillsborough does from the west. But the State DOT didn't want the traffic outside its building, so in the late 60s/early 70s it created the Morgan/Edenton corridor, destroying the some of the character of East Raleigh and one of its institutions (St. Monica church and school, near where the Bojangles at Edenton and Tarboro is now) in the process.

Sir Walter may be out of place right next to Plensa, but could add to the street character by the Mariott or anywhere space allows along Fayetville street (RBC? Site 1?).

Why is it that Fayetville Street should hail back to the old days, but the bridge near Falls Dam and anywhere near Glenwood or Capital should have the latest and greatest, sparing no expense?

Agreed!!!

Who do we contact? Anybody,please let us know!!

[bdp]

http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/...314-095310.html

scroll all the way down and there is some contact info that should get your concerns to the proper people.

[RaleighLover]

I've decided I don't like the use of the cyprus trees in the design. They just seem so unnatural and out of place. Plant some trees that will fit in instead. Plant something like oaks instead. Raleigh is the City of Oaks for a reason. If not oaks than how about Magnolias (of course, Magnolias do produce a lot of waste)? It just seems out of place and strange to me to plant something like cyprus trees in the City of Oaks. I can almost hear visitors now looking at the trees puzzled and saying 'I thought Raleigh was the City of Oaks?"

[bdp]

^^you are kidding, right?

just because there is a grove of cypress trees on fayetteville street, Raleigh's title of The City of Oaks will be challenged? I don't think so. Last time I checked there were trees all over the place that are not oak trees. Hasn't seemed to be a problem yet. Also, Mr. Plensa wants trees that will not take 100 years to grow into something substantial, which is often the problem with oaks. I think this is awefully considerate of him, since I won't be around in 100 years to lay in the shade of oak trees.

[bdp]

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/415933.html

sock it to em baby...

[BoylanHghts]

I've decided I don't like the use of the cyprus trees in the design. They just seem so unnatural and out of place. Plant some trees that will fit in instead. Plant something like oaks instead. Raleigh is the City of Oaks for a reason. If not oaks than how about Magnolias (of course, Magnolias do produce a lot of waste)? It just seems out of place and strange to me to plant something like cyprus trees in the City of Oaks. I can almost hear visitors now looking at the trees puzzled and saying 'I thought Raleigh was the City of Oaks?"

I totatlly agree about the cypress trees, it does seem very odd having a tree indegenious to southern Europe as part of the centerpiece to the new Fayetteville Street. Plensa proposed using the cypress mostly because of their shape, he wanted to have the trees be very vertical and slender as if they are reaching for the sky (which is exactly what cypress' look like). I just wonder if there is a more appropiate indeginous tree that would create the same effect.

One thing to note about using oaks (or any other similar tree) is that they will eventually grow to be very large and would probably obscure the views of the plaza. Just think of what the Fayetteville Street Mall used to look like, those beautiful old trees that dotted the sidewalk cut off most of the sunlight from above and obscured the views of the fronts of all the surrounding buildings. While this area of the street is much wider than the rest of the street, I think trees with a very wide spread such as oaks would end up taking away from the overall effect of the plaza.