Artist proposal for Plaza on Fayetteville Street

[Transplant]

I would guess that the City would shut down the fountains when it approaches freezing. Replacing burst pipes would/could be expensive.

I agree that the height could be adjusted, and maybe that mist would be nice in the hot summer.....

[Justin6882]

I wonder if the author of this article was at the meeting, or if he just saw pictures and heard a second-hand report of what was going on. Plensa specifically said the water feature would be turned off when winds became too strong. It would also be turned of during public events - and I assume when it freezes, our city maintenance staff would have sense enough to turn it off, as they would any other water features.

Also, this isn't like thousands of gallons of water gushing through per second that is going to soak the lawn...its like a light rainfall, in a thin line right in the middle of the square.

I really hope this doesn't turn into another chandelier saga - if so I'm getting really sick and tired of all these people would rather just have "blah" instead of "wow" just because they are afraid to rock the boat a little.

[BoylanHghts]

Rogers was not at the 1pm presentation, although he may have been at the 2nd presentation. My guess is people hear water feature and they automatically think "huge fountain spraying water in the air", which this is not.

It would probably be a good idea for Plensa to construct a mock-up of some of these features for his next presentation. Maybe he can build part of it in Spain at his studio and film it at different times of day and under different weather conditions.

At any rate, it will take some convincing for the masses to buy in to this idea, but I think it's worth the effort to try to convince everyone.

[ChiefJoJo]

I know Rodgers is an old-Raleigh guy and he probably can't see the forest through the trees of his memories of days gone by. So we turn off the waterfall at certain times (and the square is very wide--so how the hell is water going to blow all the way from the center axis to the street?)... we pave the street with asphalt and just use granite for the plaza--big deal. People are getting way too caught up in all the details at this point.

[DanRNC]

Once again there are the bozos asking about flight patterns, birds flying into it, etc.

[Jones_]

I have experienced water features in Spartenburg SC and upstate NY and it took a lot of wind to blow the water more than 5 or 6 feet. And hey if you don't like pigeons...maybe the city isn't for you....downtown is not as perfect as the streetscape on Cetennial campus, Westin Parkway or Wakefield....there better be some pigeons hanging out for me to feel like it was a success....

[Raleighsfinest]

What in the world is wrong with people in Raleigh? What's with all of the complaining. We need something different in this town. Otherwise we should name the city Borleigh. Corny huh?

[ncwebguy]

It's funny that Dennis Rodger's column did not mention the former fountain in front of the First Union/Wachovia building. Why? Because it managed to not get anyone wet (unless they wanted it), and it had a wide enough "catch area" to not get the sidewalk wet except in extreme conditions.

The fountains by the court house and McCroys were left for dead during the Fetzer and Coble administrations, turing them into stagnant water eyesores. The McCroy's fountain appears to not have anticipated north bound winds, which pushed the water back and onto the sidewalk. Also the sidewalk was graded to let the water run downhill into the walkways.

Current water feature technology is a lot better now than it was in the 70s when the old mall's fountains were installed. The old methods were pretty much the eqivalent of a fire hose -- using only pressure to push the water. New methods use a series of filters to focus the flow in a more controlled fashion. Examples include the fountains at the Bellagio, the "spitting sidewalk" outside the Triangle Town Center food court and fountain by the "town commons", or a tap-mounted "britta/pur" water filtration device.

I don't want something that is uninspiring as the "waterfall" outside city council chambers. ugh.

The N&O forum page is starting to be overrun with NOYFSs -- Not On Your Fayetville Street-ers.... The "but it blocks the view" types got quiet with my "paper" exercise, but they'll never be happy.

[avery]

I like what I have seen so far with the plans. I do agree that there seems to be a lot going on. The LED part bothers me. I think it would be better if the LED didn't flash messages or weren't incorporated at all. Someone brought up a good point about freezing rain adhering to the LED structure. I wonder if this will be addressed.

[pdxheel]

Raleighsfinest...different doesn't mean it should be tacky. 5 years from now we will regret the LED portion.

[RaleighRick]

I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something , but it seems that the LED lights are the important part of the whole piece. Without the lights all you have is a grass square with a spot light in the middle of the newly opened Fayetteville St. The lights ARE the art. (here I go sounding like an art expert) The changing messages and colors is the interesting part of this piece and is what will create a buzz and draw people DT.

Lets not let Dennis Rogers, the art "expert", cause panic over this project. IMO this is the best proposal yet in DT Raleigh as far as making an impact and actually being viewed by outsiders as something impressive.

I'm not saying this piece is perfect or that it has to appeal to everybody, but at least it's exciting.

[Justin6882]

I'm not saying this piece is perfect or that it has to appeal to everybody, but at least it's exciting.

that is definitely key - nothing is going to appeal to everyone.

[dmccall]

I LOVE Times Square. The displays there give the area personality and give it life. Otherwise, what separates that area from any other big intersection with Broadway? To me, lights don't necessarily equal tacky. I'd love to see some COLOR downtown that isn't green.

[dmccall]

Here's my note to Dennis Rogers:

Mr. Rogers,

Thanks so much for your thoughts on Jaume Plensa's City Square concept. At the Monday presentation Mr. Plensa specifically addressed the idea of winds by saying they will install sensors that will shut the water wall off should the wind blow too hard. Such sensors work quite well at the Bellagio's impressive water fountain show. Water is one of the key features in Mr. Plensa's wildly successful project in Chicago, the Windy City. I trust he will make it Raleigh-proof.

As far as drivers being distracted, let's let the responsible driver take responsibility for his/her own actions. Should be ban interesting tall buildings, hot air balloons, skywriting, or blimps because of their distracting potential to drivers?

The point of Mr. Plensa's creation and the "chandelier" project are to give Fayetteville Street a visual presentation that sets it apart from any street in the WORLD and give people another reason to see it. Obviously the buildings and businesses themselves aren't enough, or we wouldn't be having a revitalization effort. You alluded to the Fremont Street experience in Las Vegas, so you obviously understand that such a presentation has the power to pull people out of the world's most magnificent hotels (on the strip) to come see it. Why wouldn't an artistic visual presentation on Fayetteville Street have the same effect?

Unfortunately there are too many people who want Fayetteville Street to be mundane, not great. Specific materials and designs to withstand traffic, ice, and wind need to be considered, however the general concept presented by Mr. Plensa is just what Fayetteville St needs to stand out, IN THE WORLD.

[dand65]

Here's my note to Dennis Rogers:

Mr. Rogers,

Thanks so much for your thoughts on Jaume Plensa's City Square concept. At the Monday presentation Mr. Plensa specifically addressed the idea of winds by saying they will install sensors that will shut the water wall off should the wind blow too hard. Such sensors work quite well at the Bellagio's impressive water fountain show. Water is one of the key features in Mr. Plensa's wildly successful project in Chicago, the Windy City. I trust he will make it Raleigh-proof.

As far as drivers being distracted, let's let the responsible driver take responsibility for his/her own actions. Should be ban interesting tall buildings, hot air balloons, skywriting, or blimps because of their distracting potential to drivers?

The point of Mr. Plensa's creation and the "chandelier" project are to give Fayetteville Street a visual presentation that sets it apart from any street in the WORLD and give people another reason to see it. Obviously the buildings and businesses themselves aren't enough, or we wouldn't be having a revitalization effort. You alluded to the Fremont Street experience in Las Vegas, so you obviously understand that such a presentation has the power to pull people out of the world's most magnificent hotels (on the strip) to come see it. Why wouldn't an artistic visual presentation on Fayetteville Street have the same effect?

Unfortunately there are too many people who want Fayetteville Street to be mundane, not great. Specific materials and designs to withstand traffic, ice, and wind need to be considered, however the general concept presented by Mr. Plensa is just what Fayetteville St needs to stand out, IN THE WORLD.

If you believe this is a good project you should write a letter to the N&O and show up at the public hearing when it occurs. It makes a difference.

[BoylanHghts]

Here's my note to Dennis Rogers:

Mr. Rogers,

Thanks so much for your thoughts on Jaume Plensa's City Square concept. At the Monday presentation Mr. Plensa specifically addressed the idea of winds by saying they will install sensors that will shut the water wall off should the wind blow too hard. Such sensors work quite well at the Bellagio's impressive water fountain show. Water is one of the key features in Mr. Plensa's wildly successful project in Chicago, the Windy City. I trust he will make it Raleigh-proof.

As far as drivers being distracted, let's let the responsible driver take responsibility for his/her own actions. Should be ban interesting tall buildings, hot air balloons, skywriting, or blimps because of their distracting potential to drivers?

The point of Mr. Plensa's creation and the "chandelier" project are to give Fayetteville Street a visual presentation that sets it apart from any street in the WORLD and give people another reason to see it. Obviously the buildings and businesses themselves aren't enough, or we wouldn't be having a revitalization effort. You alluded to the Fremont Street experience in Las Vegas, so you obviously understand that such a presentation has the power to pull people out of the world's most magnificent hotels (on the strip) to come see it. Why wouldn't an artistic visual presentation on Fayetteville Street have the same effect?

Unfortunately there are too many people who want Fayetteville Street to be mundane, not great. Specific materials and designs to withstand traffic, ice, and wind need to be considered, however the general concept presented by Mr. Plensa is just what Fayetteville St needs to stand out, IN THE WORLD.

Great letter! Hopefully they will print it. There needs to be something positive to go along with those that will inevitably ask if it will be distracting to airliners.

[romec]

The fact that Dennis Rogers is looking to take an antagonistic stance to this project and the best he could come up with is "people might get wet on windy days" and the water if left in sub 32 degree weather might freeze is a testament to the potential success of this project. Personally, I'm not 100% sold on the "chandeliers" yet (I like the concept of specialized street lights, but so far I don't like the design), but I really do like the design of this fountain.

My only concern is to see how it is integrated (its relationship to the road/pedestrians/ etc etc). Is it a place that people walk by, or walk to or gather?

The really cool thing is that people keep talking about preserving the vista, it might be able to do some really cool things to enhance the vista. Imagine the Hurricanes winning the Stanley cup and a crowd gathering on Fayetteville street to welcome home their champions. A helicopter pulls in to get the aerial and what do you see? A crowd of people and "Carolina Hurricanes 2008 World Champions" displayed in this fountain. As you look down the street, you see the same message scrolling across the WTVD screen.

Or imagine a major act is in town at the Performing arts center. The view from the capitol could be magnificent: a glowing fountain changing colors set with memorial auditorium as the back drop.

[Raleighmark]

I know I

[raleightransplant]

Some rsponses to this get my blood boiling. We need this and the other projects to bring energy to our downtown. We can do it! We have the people, resources, and spirit to do this if we try. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just feel like some people in this city WANT downtown to fail...they want to make fun of it and insult it. I can't hear things like that without getting upset! Your little "paradise" you've created outside of DT will suffer unless DT gets moving in the right direction...don't you see that?! The way Raleigh has grown for years is UNSUSTAINABLE. And then you'll complain because you're sitting in traffic in North Raleigh at 10 am on a Sunday morning. We need people like Plensa to kick this place in the a*$, and start thinking about our future. Not 3 years down the road, but 50-100 years.

[Raleighsfinest]

The fact that Dennis Rogers is looking to take an antagonistic stance to this project and the best he could come up with is "people might get wet on windy days" and the water if left in sub 32 degree weather might freeze is a testament to the potential success of this project. Personally, I'm not 100% sold on the "chandeliers" yet (I like the concept of specialized street lights, but so far I don't like the design), but I really do like the design of this fountain.

My only concern is to see how it is integrated (its relationship to the road/pedestrians/ etc etc). Is it a place that people walk by, or walk to or gather?

The really cool thing is that people keep talking about preserving the vista, it might be able to do some really cool things to enhance the vista. Imagine the Hurricanes winning the Stanley cup and a crowd gathering on Fayetteville street to welcome home their champions. A helicopter pulls in to get the aerial and what do you see? A crowd of people and "Carolina Hurricanes 2008 World Champions" displayed in this fountain. As you look down the street, you see the same message scrolling across the WTVD screen.

Or imagine a major act is in town at the Performing arts center. The view from the capitol could be magnificent: a glowing fountain changing colors set with memorial auditorium as the back drop.

Now that's vision. I likes!!!

[bdp]

Some rsponses to this get my blood boiling. We need this and the other projects to bring energy to our downtown. We can do it! We have the people, resources, and spirit to do this if we try. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just feel like some people in this city WANT downtown to fail...they want to make fun of it and insult it. I can't hear things like that without getting upset! Your little "paradise" you've created outside of DT will suffer unless DT gets moving in the right direction...don't you see that?! The way Raleigh has grown for years is UNSUSTAINABLE. And then you'll complain because you're sitting in traffic in North Raleigh at 10 am on a Sunday morning. We need people like Plensa to kick this place in the a*$, and start thinking about our future. Not 3 years down the road, but 50-100 years.

i agree, there are an inordinate amount of negative (and vocal) people around here. i mean in the raleigh area, not on UP. my take on it is, the sophisticated, educated people that have relocated here from all over the world are too busy with work and familes and stuff to really pay too much attention to whats going on downtown. they are the people who have relocated from cities with more vibrant downtown areas (boston, new york, seattle, san francisco, LA, San Diego, they are here from everywhere really) and have pretty much resigned themselves to the fact that now they live in a nice place that just doesn't happen to have a thriving downtown (yet). well, this is changing before our eyes, and since most of these transplants that make up our cities population are not involved or invested for the most part in downtown, it is up to the residents who do have vision to be involved and invested. IMO the naysayers that say downtown is dead, downtown will never take off etc frequent the same chain restaurants in north raleigh/cary, or go to the same gay bar downtown once a month and really don't have a clue that downtown already IS changing, already IS taking off, and is only going to get bigger and better. unfortunately, they have plenty of time on their hands to sit back and criticize and write letters and basically try to make everyone else as miserable as they are. anyway, it is a little early to really form my thoughts into anything much... I may come back and edit this this afternoon... gotta run.

[guy4charlotte]

i agree, there are an inordinate amount of negative (and vocal) people around here. i mean in the raleigh area, not on UP. my take on it is, the sophisticated, educated people that have relocated here from all over the world are too busy with work and familes and stuff to really pay too much attention to whats going on downtown. they are the people who have relocated from cities with more vibrant downtown areas (boston, new york, seattle, san francisco, LA, San Diego, they are here from everywhere really) and have pretty much resigned themselves to the fact that now they live in a nice place that just doesn't happen to have a thriving downtown (yet). well, this is changing before our eyes, and since most of these transplants that make up our cities population are not involved or invested for the most part in downtown, it is up to the residents who do have vision to be involved and invested. IMO the naysayers that say downtown is dead, downtown will never take off etc frequent the same chain restaurants in north raleigh/cary, or go to the same gay bar downtown once a month and really don't have a clue that downtown already IS changing, already IS taking off, and is only going to get bigger and better. unfortunately, they have plenty of time on their hands to sit back and criticize and write letters and basically try to make everyone else as miserable as they are. anyway, it is a little early to really form my thoughts into anything much... I may come back and edit this this afternoon... gotta run.

OMG there's a gay bar downtown??? who let that happen???!! Next thing you know there will be people on the streets downtown after dark!! I need to write a letter to the N&O this evening while I'm dining at Cafe Denny's

[Damien]

Most of the gays I know aren't as apathetic as you implied in your post. Matter of fact, most of them want downtown to be great, including myself.

[bdp]

hey i was not knocking gay ppl, i just hear a lot of negative comments from the ones i know (oh, raleigh's tired, you have to go to atlanta, charlotte <blegh> or DC to have fun-- i hear that all the time and it gets old) really, i just need to hang out with different gay ppl, thats all ; )

[ericurbanite]

is it me or is there alot of gay people on this forum?? nothing against gay people or anything I just kind of thought about it, theres plenty of heterosexuals as well so dont bash me for this im just stating there seems to be a few just my honest opinion. If not oh well, next topic....