Artist proposal for Plaza on Fayetteville Street

[willrusso]

Most of the gays I know aren't as apathetic as you implied in your post. Matter of fact, most of them want downtown to be great, including myself.

..LOL

is it me or is there alot of gay people on this forum?? nothing against gay people or anything I just kind of thought about it, theres plenty of heterosexuals as well so dont bash me for this im just stating there seems to be a few just my honest opinion. If not oh well, next topic....

Well, add another one to your list haha. Anyways, I have noticed this myself also.

[bdp]

OMG there's a gay bar downtown??? who let that happen???!! Next thing you know there will be people on the streets downtown after dark!! I need to write a letter to the N&O this evening while I'm dining at Cafe Denny's

you crack me up...

[guy4charlotte]

is it me or is there alot of gay people on this forum?? nothing against gay people or anything I just kind of thought about it, theres plenty of heterosexuals as well so dont bash me for this im just stating there seems to be a few just my honest opinion. If not oh well, next topic....

lol....and those that aren't will be by their 200th post---welcome to brokeback planet.......muah

[ChiefJoJo]

that is definitely key - nothing is going to appeal to everyone.

Nothing appeals to everyone. Roads, bridges, lights, art, whatever... its impossible to achieve. That's why this is important. Make a bold decision and move forward despite the naysayers. Let's hope Raleigh has the "stones" to do this.

[NCpride]

Some rsponses to this get my blood boiling. We need this and the other projects to bring energy to our downtown. We can do it! We have the people, resources, and spirit to do this if we try. Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just feel like some people in this city WANT downtown to fail...they want to make fun of it and insult it. I can't hear things like that without getting upset! Your little "paradise" you've created outside of DT will suffer unless DT gets moving in the right direction...don't you see that?! The way Raleigh has grown for years is UNSUSTAINABLE. And then you'll complain because you're sitting in traffic in North Raleigh at 10 am on a Sunday morning. We need people like Plensa to kick this place in the a*$, and start thinking about our future. Not 3 years down the road, but 50-100 years.

We need to take the "pro-downtown/anti-downtown" aspect out of the discussion on this art project. People can have legitimate concerns without being labeled "anti-downtown".

This artwork is not what downtown Raleigh needs. It is not classy. It is not inspiring. It will not draw people downtown the way you envision.

The LED portion is, well, cheesy. Who is going to sit under it and read the time and temperature??? Anybody??? That is not so amazing is it? In 10 years it will be an embarrassment to downtown Raleigh. This artwork will certainly not stand the test of time.

Take away the LED, and take away the spotlight shining into the sky (which will almost certainly be voted away) and what do you have? Just a grassy square. I think more people will be puzzled by the black granite street than will be inspired by it.

I think more people will have to figure out exactly what this artwork means than will just be able to enjoy it.

How many people seriously loved this the first time they saw it?

I like water features, but let's do something classic!!! Look at the Buckingham fountain in Chicago, or the Forsyth park fountain in Savannah. Those are inspiring works of art that will actually draw people to spend time enjoying them. They will stand the test of time and remain classy 100 years, 200 years from now.

Can you guys imagine something comparable to the Buckingham fountain in front of the Progress Center, where all those parking spaces are?

The Capitol/Progress Center axis has the unique column architecture that will also be included in the special street lamps. How does the new art piece tie into that? It will look so out of place.

In short, I agree that Raleigh needs artwork and inspiring spaces to draw people downtown. But let's create something that gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling with just one look, instead of something that confuses everybody, and will eventually look cheap and tacky in a decade.

[intelprocessor]

Yes the downtown sections is a tad bland. Prolly becuase most of the people here are older people and they think it's fine. But us young professionals have a little fresher style when it comes to that sort of thing.

[Justin6882]

I like water features, but let's do something classic!!! Look at the Buckingham fountain in Chicago, or the Forsyth park fountain in Savannah.

Yeah! Lets do something like everyone else does!!!

But seriously, I was at the first meeting on Monday and as soon as I saw it, I loved it. I'm so sick of thise "lets do something classic" - we have classic, Memorial Auditorium, the Capitol - lets do something EXCITING. I think the LED aspect is going to be key to making this work, it will add excitement that a stone fountain will never be able to do.

We need something that represents our day-and-age -- stoic columns and lions spitting out water is not 2006. It has had its time and we continue to enjoy those pieces, however we need something that truly represents us. That is technology, light, excitement - and Plensa's project embodies that energy.

I think everyone knows my stance on the public art going in downtown - I just really hope we don't squander this opportunity on something that has been done before - and not only been done before, but probably has been done better than what we can recreate.

[Damien]

I think more people will have to figure out exactly what this artwork means than will just be able to enjoy it.

Art is supposed to make you think. That is what brings enjoyment out of looking at art, at least for me anyway. Installing a "classic" fountain is just replicating something that has been ran into the ground, kinda like listening to G105 all day, all your gonna hear are the same 10 songs over and over, and who wants to listen to the same 10 songs all day? The same can be said about looking at a fountain that looks like other, more famous ones. Its gonna get worn out real quick. At least this art project reflects the area it is in with the high tech LED grid, and more importantly it is original. IMO we need all the originality we can get downtown, otherwise it's just gonna be a big snoozefest.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Yeah! Lets do something like everyone else does!!!

But seriously, I was at the first meeting on Monday and as soon as I saw it, I loved it. I'm so sick of thise "lets do something classic" - we have classic, Memorial Auditorium, the Capitol - lets do something EXCITING. I think the LED aspect is going to be key to making this work, it will add excitement that a stone fountain will never be able to do.

We need something that represents our day-and-age -- stoic columns and lions spitting out water is not 2006. It has had its time and we continue to enjoy those pieces, however we need something that truly represents us. That is technology, light, excitement - and Plensa's project embodies that energy.

I think everyone knows my stance on the public art going in downtown - I just really hope we don't squander this opportunity on something that has been done before - and not only been done before, but probably has been done better than what we can recreate.

One of the problems that I have with the city of Raleigh,(and god knows I love Raleigh), is that it has either torn down most of its more classical buildings or that have gone down in fires. With that said, Raleigh may have the, Memorial Auditorium, the Capitol , but those are buildings and not public art work. Raleigh does have nice statues on the Capital grounds but nothing else in down town. I think for Raleigh to be taken more seriously, it must have a combination of both the modern, which this project certainly is, AND classical art which in itself timeless, 1706, 1806, 1906 and yes 2006. Something's will always be beautiful and needed. So in conclusion, we need both. Lets stop being single minded and hope that we can have both in Raleigh's future.

[NCpride]

Yeah! Lets do something like everyone else does!!!

But seriously, I was at the first meeting on Monday and as soon as I saw it, I loved it. I'm so sick of thise "lets do something classic" - we have classic, Memorial Auditorium, the Capitol - lets do something EXCITING. I think the LED aspect is going to be key to making this work, it will add excitement that a stone fountain will never be able to do.

We need something that represents our day-and-age -- stoic columns and lions spitting out water is not 2006. It has had its time and we continue to enjoy those pieces, however we need something that truly represents us. That is technology, light, excitement - and Plensa's project embodies that energy.

I think everyone knows my stance on the public art going in downtown - I just really hope we don't squander this opportunity on something that has been done before - and not only been done before, but probably has been done better than what we can recreate.

I'm not advocating copying artwork from other cities. I am 100% in favor of doing something original in Raleigh. Just becuase I think a large fountain would be better than this LED grid, does not imply that I wanted it to look like it came from the 19th century. I was merely pointing out how these works have stood the test of time becuase of their classic nature.

I too want something that reflects our time but if "technology" is the benchmark, then we must be weary as it changes so rapidly. It used to be cool to have a VCR in your entertainment cabinet, but now they make quite the opposite statement.

The use of technology and light is great, but let's just make sure it is appropriate.

The LED is different, but it is not exciting or inspiring. For starters, it offers only one vantage point, directly under it. Second, I can't imagine what messages could be displayed that are exciting. The time, temp and GPS coordinates are not important. The GPS coordinates are just plain cheesy. Who wants to crane their neck in the sky to read a news ticker? Any other ideas?

The giant spotlight is too reminicent of the twin towers, and the only other place I've seen them used is in the parking lot of a car dealership advertising a midnight madness promotion.

If we want to create excitement from a distance, let's wait till our skyline makes the impression. A spotlight is only going to remind me that this is the best we can do, since we only have a handful of towers downtown.

The biggest problem with this proposal is that it will not create the energy and appeal that will draw people to it. In 10 years, you won't find visiting the "Plensa square" on city search as a list of things to do.

It is not the point, though it is one way to messure the appeal of such a project, but other cities aren't going to be jealous of our LED you guys!

[Justin6882]

The biggest problem with this proposal is that it will not create the energy and appeal that will draw people to it. In 10 years, you won't find visiting the "Plensa square" on city search as a list of things to do.

So you're saying people from miles around are going to come look at a fountain - much like the ones all over North Hills, Southpoint, Triangle town center, etc etc etc etc...??

I hear Triangle Towne Center has a waterfall in the middle of it, lets all go check that out!

I do know that his projects elsewhere have been rousing successes - who knew that some digital images of people spitting on the sidewalk would be so great - well it is, and this will be great as well.

[BoylanHghts]

I was thinking about the LED lights and was wondering what they might look like in reality, as opposed to what they look like in the renderings. As I was pondering this, I remembered the light show from U2's current tour. It turns out that U2 used strings of LED lights controlled by a computer. They programmed the lights to change constantly. There were abstract streaming colors, sometimes it had words or symbols, sometimes it was just pure white light. It was very dynamic and dramatic. I don't know if the Plensa lights will be exactly like this, but it may be close.

I guess my point is, don't assume that it will just have the date and the temperature up there all day long. It will constantly be changing and could be something really special for downtown. I could see it being programmed for special events, parades, concerts, holidays, etc.

It's important to remember that the first images are just an initial CONCEPT. Like he said, "it is a dream". It will change and develop over the coming months as it becomes more real. There are real issues that will need to be dealt with: how will the cables be held in place? where will the water come from? how will the rain curtain work? how high will it be? how will egress ramps for wheelchairs be incorporated? how will it deal with freezing rain? how long do the lights last? The list could go on and on.

As a concept, I think it's great and I am anxious to see how it develops.

Here are a few pics of U2's LED lights for reference.......

[NCpride]

So you're saying people from miles around are going to come look at a fountain - much like the ones all over North Hills, Southpoint, Triangle town center, etc etc etc etc...??

I hear Triangle Towne Center has a waterfall in the middle of it, lets all go check that out!

Forget a fountain. I'm not arguing the merits of the LED grid vs. a fountain. I'm just advocating something that offers more appeal, more of a draw and more classic in nature so that it stands a better chance of passing the test of time.

Yep, the Buckingham and Forsyth fountains are exaclty the same caliber as those in TTC and NH.

At any rate, thanks for a responisible reply to my completely legitmate concerns.

[Subway Scoundrel]

Take away the LED, and take away the spotlight shining into the sky (which will almost certainly be voted away) and what do you have?

I like the spotlight. It marks DT. When you fly into RDU, nothing below you but a bunch of lights. The spotlight marks DT. Otherwise, it is the triangle is nothing but suburbia. Might as well mark the spot. You see DT Charlotte when you fly into their airport, DT Chicago when you fly into ORD, same with other places. I say keep that out of all things

[pdxheel]

I've been giving the proposed plaza some thought. It is my PERSONAL opinion that the LED is cheesy. If other people like it that is great. What I don't like about the plaza and I think is a real concern is that it doesn't invite people to gather. While I have only seen several pictures of the proposed plaza, a green field with a fountain will not invite people. I am from Portland, so I'm probably biased, but below is a link to a plaza (Pioneer Courthouse Square) that encourages people to gather. It is also used for many civic events. In my opinion thr design of this square will stand the test of time. I'm not sure that is the case with the proposed plaza for DT Raleigh.

Pioneer Courthouse Square

[BoylanHghts]

The LED is different, but it is not exciting or inspiring. For starters, it offers only one vantage point, directly under it. Second, I can't imagine what messages could be displayed that are exciting. The time, temp and GPS coordinates are not important. The GPS coordinates are just plain cheesy. Who wants to crane their neck in the sky to read a news ticker? Any other ideas?

One of the key concepts is that you will be able to view the LED lights from every direction: underneath on the grass, from above in the buildings, and also from north and south along Fayetteville Street. This "light canopy" is over 10,000 square feet. You will see.

The time+temp or gps coordinates are just a place holder for future text. Even if it ends up being displayed, I would image it would only be displayed for a moment, then something else would come up. It's not the equivalent of a bank sign on the side of the road. Plensa and the community will hopefully decide together what messages are appropriate. I would think it would be programmable so that it wouldn't read the same messages from opening day until infinity. Plus, messages are only one possible use. It could be pixalated images or just random colors and patterns. Don't think of it as a big sign, it's an ever-changing canvas for art.

[Jones_]

I've been giving the proposed plaza some thought. It is my PERSONAL opinion that the LED is cheesy. If other people like it that is great. What I don't like about the plaza and I think is a real concern is that it doesn't invite people to gather. While I have only seen several pictures of the proposed plaza, a green field with a fountain will not invite people. I am from Portland, so I'm probably biased, but below is a link to a plaza (Pioneer Courthouse Square) that encourages people to gather. It is also used for many civic events. In my opinion thr design of this square will stand the test of time. I'm not sure that is the case with the proposed plaza for DT Raleigh.

Pioneer Courthouse Square

We are not trying to create a place to gather with a single piece of art.....restored Fayetteville St is the place to gather, this work is to be a centerpiece. The fountain in the middle of Market Street in Wilmington is a much smaller version of the concept at work here. You are trying to compliment a space where people will have multiple reasons to already be gathered...i.e. the CC, Progress Energy Center, residents of the area, etc. You are getting something like a Europeon traffic circle with a work of art in the center. Water is a timeless element. Light is a timeless element (mind you, I understand 'elements' are those on the periodic table). It will have clean lines and inject a change of attitude into the space in which it is a part of. It gets my full support.

And if anyone think LEDs won't stand the test of time....it is widely anticipated that LED's will replace most other sorts of illumination in our lifetime...that coming from an inside source at Cree.

[pack-man]

I always thought that should have one of those vegas style fountains that shoots out of the sidewalk in different patterns. it would be cool to have people down there just hanging out and playing in it.

[dmccall]

The more I think about the project, the more I like it. There are so many layers to it, much like a movie or dinner that leaves me thinking about it the next day. Here are a few points that I like:

• The black pavement surrounding the lawn represents the sea, out of which everything comes. To me it represents dispair and disintegration.

• The center square represents growth, fertility, hope. Grass grows upward. As long as we stay centered in our lives, we have the potential for growth, not disintegration.

• The water wall represents a curtain to our soul. It allows us to walk through it and find the other half of ourselves.

• The water wall invites us to take part in the presentation, not just view it.

• The water is falling, from the heavens. Water is also a symbol of fertility - think Fatal Attraction with the boiling water.

• The water falls from the heavens, as it does during cleaning rain. Meanwhile a light beam shines toward the heavens, representing a two way conversation.

• The light beam represents out look to the heavens for hope, as well as being a symbol of possibility.

• The light beam reminds people where the center of the community geographically is.

• The LED canopy represents a protective blanket over the center and most fragile part of us - the fertile grass.

• The LED canopy, like others said, will be an empty canvass, and the words and graphics produced give the project unlimited flexibility.

I really like the theme of the undiscovered soul that Plensa has presented with the water. I'd love to see the City take this to the next level with a marketing campaign matching the concept of discovering the rest of our souls with the ever-popular "finding one's self" that so many people resort to when they feel like their life has no foundation. Some cute slogans could also me mass marketed with T-shirts, bumper stickers, and commercials saying things like,

• Find Yourself...In Raleigh

• Soul for the Chicken Soup

• Discover the Rest of You

• Art and Soul

• The I of our Soul

Here's a commercial idea. A stuffy pair of 50 yo women, dressed to the nines at the country club, are discussing one woman's daughter.

[Friend] What is Amanda doing these days?

[Mother] Oh, she went to (rolling her eyes) "Find herself."

Just then a series of 1/2 second video clips ensues for 10 seconds showing this HOT 23 year old chick having an great time with her friends in bars, biking on the greenway, taking in a museum, working in a really nice office with a view, cheering a goal at a hockey game, tailgating at a State football game, swimming laps at dawn at Pullen Park, seeing a band at Walnut Creek, trying on cool clothes, eating from a gorgeous plate of food, etc.

[Friend] Where is she doing that?

[Mother] (surprised) Raleigh!

I am a little concerned that the cars going around the green grassy square will prohibit people from wanting to discover the lawn. Parents will not let their children run free with traffic so close, as they apparently do in that Square in Portland.

The LED canopy can be as cool or geeky as we want it. Words that continue the theme of the project like "Soul", "Possibility", "Discover" or those words in other languages can linger for a long time as part of the art work. I don't think Plensa intends for this to be a dazzling light show. It will be much more static than the U2 concert, although that was a great example of where LED sheets have been used to move a groud emotionally.

Will people envy our LED? Probably so, actually. The RBC Center was one of the last professional arena to get them installed. We envied theirs! We'll probably see some large buildings in America, soon, draped in dazzling LED sheets to give a Time Square effect. This will look WAY better than, say, the neon on the buildings in Dallas or Buckhead.

I will soon post a picture at Raleighing of the party courtyard with streamers overhead which Plensa referred to as his inspiration for this.

[Justin6882]

I love that commercial idea! Very simple and effective - bravo! Also, excellent examination of the meaning of the work - something to make us all think about.

[bdp]

this may be beside the point, but I think a world-renowned artist from the amazing, beautiful city of Barcelona, Spain has a better idea of what is timeless and classic than a bunch of armchair critics in Raleigh NC. It is my opinion that we are very lucky to have this opportunity here, with someone of Plensa's calibre creating a place for us. It is really disheartening to see people using words like tacky, dated, cheesy, etc before the details of the project have even been worked out.

[Subway Scoundrel]

The more I think about the project, the more I like it. There are so many layers to it, much like a movie or dinner that leaves me thinking about it the next day. Here are a few points that I like:

• The black pavement surrounding the lawn represents the sea, out of which everything comes. To me it represents dispair and disintegration.

• The center square represents growth, fertility, hope. Grass grows upward. As long as we stay centered in our lives, we have the potential for growth, not disintegration.

• The water wall represents a curtain to our soul. It allows us to walk through it and find the other half of ourselves.

• The water wall invites us to take part in the presentation, not just view it.

• The water is falling, from the heavens. Water is also a symbol of fertility - think Fatal Attraction with the boiling water.

• The water falls from the heavens, as it does during cleaning rain. Meanwhile a light beam shines toward the heavens, representing a two way conversation.

• The light beam represents out look to the heavens for hope, as well as being a symbol of possibility.

• The light beam reminds people where the center of the community geographically is.

• The LED canopy represents a protective blanket over the center and most fragile part of us - the fertile grass.

• The LED canopy, like others said, will be an empty canvass, and the words and graphics produced give the project unlimited flexibility.

I really like the theme of the undiscovered soul that Plensa has presented with the water. I'd love to see the City take this to the next level with a marketing campaign matching the concept of discovering the rest of our souls with the ever-popular "finding one's self" that so many people resort to when they feel like their life has no foundation. Some cute slogans could also me mass marketed with T-shirts, bumper stickers, and commercials saying things like,

• Find Yourself...In Raleigh

• Soul for the Chicken Soup

• Discover the Rest of You

• Art and Soul

• The I of our Soul

Here's a commercial idea. A stuffy pair of 50 yo women, dressed to the nines at the country club, are discussing one woman's daughter.

[Friend] What is Amanda doing these days?

[Mother] Oh, she went to (rolling her eyes) "Find herself."

Just then a series of 1/2 second video clips ensues for 10 seconds showing this HOT 23 year old chick having an great time with her friends in bars, biking on the greenway, taking in a museum, working in a really nice office with a view, cheering a goal at a hockey game, tailgating at a State football game, swimming laps at dawn at Pullen Park, seeing a band at Walnut Creek, trying on cool clothes, eating from a gorgeous plate of food, etc.

[Friend] Where is she doing that?

[Mother] (surprised) Raleigh!

I am a little concerned that the cars going around the green grassy square will prohibit people from wanting to discover the lawn. Parents will not let their children run free with traffic so close, as they apparently do in that Square in Portland.

The LED canopy can be as cool or geeky as we want it. Words that continue the theme of the project like "Soul", "Possibility", "Discover" or those words in other languages can linger for a long time as part of the art work. I don't think Plensa intends for this to be a dazzling light show. It will be much more static than the U2 concert, although that was a great example of where LED sheets have been used to move a groud emotionally.

Will people envy our LED? Probably so, actually. The RBC Center was one of the last professional arena to get them installed. We envied theirs! We'll probably see some large buildings in America, soon, draped in dazzling LED sheets to give a Time Square effect. This will look WAY better than, say, the neon on the buildings in Dallas or Buckhead.

I will soon post a picture at Raleighing of the party courtyard with streamers overhead which Plensa referred to as his inspiration for this.

Hey Man, what ever you are holding, pass it on down !!! Don't bogart that thing !! I only am seeing lights and water right now !!

[Raleighsfinest]

this may be beside the point, but I think a world-renowned artist from the amazing, beautiful city of Barcelona, Spain has a better idea of what is timeless and classic than a bunch of armchair critics in Raleigh NC. It is my opinion that we are very lucky to have this opportunity here, with someone of Plensa's calibre creating a place for us. It is really disheartening to see people using words like tacky, dated, cheesy, etc before the details of the project have even been worked out.

I know right. It's like man, I never knew people in Raleigh were so finicky. This place needs to be more open-minded and have a better visual outlook on where this city is going. The mayberry attitude is starting to tick me off. Charlotte may be ultra corporate, but that city is on the path to greatness and success. What's Raleigh doing? That's right building another boring museum out of brick or stucco. I love Raleigh and I love seeing it explode with growth, but now it's time to become more creative and urban-minded in our thinking.

[dmccall]

Hey Man, what ever you are holding, pass it on down !!! Don't bogart that thing !! I only am seeing lights and water right now !!

[raleightransplant]

this may be beside the point, but I think a world-renowned artist from the amazing, beautiful city of Barcelona, Spain has a better idea of what is timeless and classic than a bunch of armchair critics in Raleigh NC. It is my opinion that we are very lucky to have this opportunity here, with someone of Plensa's calibre creating a place for us. It is really disheartening to see people using words like tacky, dated, cheesy, etc before the details of the project have even been worked out.

Amen. I'm going to listen to someone whose work has been applauded the world over before I'm going to put any stock in what someone from Raleigh thinks (not that everyone here thinks negatively but sheesh!). There's a reason we're not further along in the game at this point in the downtown effort...we need to DREAM BIG. We need a downtown that embodies the spirit so many of us have for this area. One of life, optimism, excitement, community. What we're trying to correct is this "safe, half-assed, insecure, detached, we're not as bold as Charlotte" crap. In this area where people have different ties to teams, parts of the country, etc., we need something that unifies us. I think this has potential to instill pride and do just that.