Palm trees - "Cabbage" palmetto trees - does your southern city have them? (ATTN: Atlanta/Columbia/Birmingham)

[Tennesseestorm]

Yes, its resting now. Funny thing today, my father was outside and I heard him calling my name... he wanted me to come out and see something, however, I did not make it out in time. He said that a snake had wound itself up around the Windmill palm. He said it looked like something you would see on a snake show.

[Tennesseestorm]

As promised.. here is a updated photo of the Windmill palm.... it has done very well this year... grew several new fronds....

In comparison, my Sabal Birmingham has done very poorly.... It barely grew this year and I have had it for two years....

[Tennesseestorm]

Sorry to hear about your trees perishing. The drought has been very bad here as well. We are nearly 18 inches below average for the year. I watered my Windmill palm occasionally, as well as all of my other trees. While none of my trees perished this year, many out in the "wild" did die, or at least lost their leaves... they may come back next year.. we will have to wait and see.

[AtlantaSandlapper]

Call me crazy, but I am a tree "nut".

I am wondering - who has cabbage palm trees in their city? If you live in Florida, southern MS, AL, GA, SC (eastern), or coastal NC and southeastern VA- then I know the answer is yes, but I am referring to areas north and west of those areas. I am trying to figure just how far north and inland that the "cabbage palm" tree grows. There are tree websites that show where certain species of trees grow, but trees are known to grow in areas they are not typically supposed to.

I know that some plam trees grow as far north as the coast of southeastern Virginia, but I am not sure what species they are - I am not certain that these are cabbage palmettos, but they look like it. There is supposed to be a certain species that will grow in temperatures as cold as -10*. The palm I am referring to is called the "Needle palm and scrub palm" - reported to grow as far north as Washington DC, but I am really not referring to that palm tree. Here is a link to the hardy palm trees:

http://members.aol.com/palmferndc/palms/index.html

The tree I am referring to is the "Cabbage Palm" - It is the same tree that is the South Carolina state tree. http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/trees/SABPALA.pdf - this is the tree I would like to know if it grows in your city.

Actually- here is a link to the South Carolina state tree:

http://www.50states.com/tree/southcarolina.htm

I have heard that these cabbage palmetto trees grow as far north and inland as Columbia, SC - can anyone verify this? If they do- then how about Atlanta, Dallas or Birmingham? Any "cabbage" palmetto trees in those cities? If they grow there, then they definitely do in Columbia, since Columbia is typically a warmer city and a lot lower in elevation.

Thanks!

I am just coming across this discussion string and wondered what the conculsion is. We live in Atlanta and want to plant some cabbage palmettos (we are from south carolina).... will they last or was there a good substitution identifed? thanks!

[richyb83]

30'ft. tall Palm trees along Perkins Rowe Avenue in Baton Rouge LA

If anybody can answer? I got a question about my Palm tree in my front yard. Do I saw off the browned(dead) fans on the bottom?? Or leave them alone and they will they fall off?? I need to post an updated pic of the tree.

[poonther]

richyb83 what type of palm is it?

I not a fan of the brown fronds and usually saw them off..eventually they will fall off, but that may be months from now. However most of the reading I've done on this subject say to leave the dead fronds on during the cold months b/c it provides protection for the crown during cold spells. This cold protection might not be as important in our region (BR/Tally about the same as far as wx goes) if it's a Sabal or Windmill, however if it's a Mexican or Queen, I'd say leave them on until the end of Feb/early March if you can stand it.

[Tennesseestorm]

Nice photo!

Not sure if it was the right thing to do, but I cut off the old browned "fans" off of the bottom of my Windmill palm last sunner without no ill effects. Post an updated photo when you can and I may be able to find out more.

If anybody can answer? I got a question about my Palm tree in my front yard. Do I saw off the browned(dead) fans on the bottom?? Or leave them alone and they will they fall off?? I need to post an updated pic of the tree.

[Tennesseestorm]

Ug, thats a tough call. Its borderline there and depends upon what part of Atlanta you live in... if you live in one of the "cooler suburbs", its risky, but I would wait until someone from Atlanta replied with more info about it. Here is some info I bug up about this palm. Its definitely one of the more hardy palms, but far from the hardiest.... looks like they will survive to as cold as 5

[DruidCity]

I've heard that palmetto trees tend to be slightly hardier if grown in place from a small size, as opposed to the "hurricane cut"

mature plantings, at least for the first couple years.

I know of some trunked palmettoes that survived in Birmingham and Anniston (which are comparable to Atlanta)

for many years. The City of Tuscaloosa planted a few palmetto trees at a city park last year, too.

I planted a palmetto tree seedling about 10 years ago in Tuscaloosa, and it has never had noticeable damage, but

hasn't formed a trunk yet.

To anyone in Atlanta, I would highly recommend a visit to Anniston, AL to the display garden at the natural

history museum. It's one of the better collections of "hardy tropicals" for a comparable climate, it's free

to look at, and everything is labelled.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks for that info! I would like to check out that museum!

Well, here are more photos of some palms around here. Someone on the city-data forums took these today for me. I was told that these trees were in the area, but the past few times I was down there, I forgot to go see them. These are in Kingsport, TN- only about 10 miles south of the Tennessee-Virginia state line and about 22 miles west of me.... this city is about 1200 ft. in elevation and is zone 7a.....

I think they are Windmill palms... at least the smaller ones. Not sure about the larger one.

[poonther]

^The two smaller ones are Windmills and the larger one is a Sabal/Cabbage Palm. It's interesting to see them growing that far north. The Windmills are more cold hardy than the Sabal. I can't tell if that is a relatively new planting of a mature tree or a tree that has been there several years. You can see where they have mounded the dirt and mulch around the roots to protect it from the cold.

Thanks for the pix and best of luck to those growers.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks. I was thinking the smaller ones were Windmills, because I have one and it looked much the same.

Well, I too am amazed that they have a Cabbage Palm that large here. I was wondering if that is what it was. I am not sure how long its been there, but from the way that person was talking, its been there for awhile.

I think the Windmills will be just fine, as I have heard that they will endure temps as cold as 5

[richyb83]

Hey....Sorry for the delay; I'm finally posting an updated pic of my Palm tree in the front yard taken during Christmas holiday.

I believe it's a Sabel Palm?? I needed some advice on the browning fans at the bottom; do I leave them as is?? Or saw them off?? And if so, where exactly would I need to make the cut??

Thanks for the advice; sorry about the lightning; I was trying to get the nice glow of the sunset.

[poonther]

Nicely decorated Sabal richyb83! That's also a pretty neat sunset you captured. Jaxboro is right on target w/his suggestions. I generally like a flush cut, so I cut them in what he calls hurricane style. Basically I cut mine right at the point where V is in the frond stalk. However be very careful NOT to cut into the crown. That can kill the palm or damage it which could allow for disease and pest thrive.

Since it's a hardy Sabal and you are in BR, you could go ahead and cut it now or if you wanna be totally safe, cut it after 3.1. This current spell of warm weather got me in the gardening mood, so about two days ago I trimmed several fronds off my Sabal, Mexican Fan and Pindo. I hope a 100 year freeze doesn't come this February.

After you trim it, please take some pix and share them with us. BTW cutting fronds on a tree that size is much easier w/a pole saw. Do you have one?

T-storm....how are your Windmills and Live Oaks doing this winter up there?

[poonther]

Thanks for the info Jaxboro. All of these years living in all parts of FL and growing palms, I've never heard of or at least taken note of the term "hurricane cutting." I did Google it and yeah I've seen palms done that like many times. This type of cutting seems to occur mainly w/palms on commercial property or used in landscaping along roadways. I don't cut my palms that way and I never would. Thanks for the clarification JB.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks for asking.... they are doing fine! Unlike last winter at this time, my Live Oaks still have the leaves on them. Last year was the first year, so I think that is why they lost their their leaves, but this year, they are fine- well, so far. The Windmill is thriving. I also went out on a limb last summer and planted a Slash pine, which is not native here.... it too has thrived. Really suprised me in this red clay soil. My Longleaf pines are growing like mad, but I was sure they would be OK, because there are a few of these in this area, but not many. Most pines here are Loblolly, White pine, Virginia pine, as well as some others I cannot recall at this time.

I was just discussing the Live oaks with another Tennesseean who lives in north central Tennessee that has had Live oaks since 1996 and one is nearly 4 stories tall! He has some photos posted somewhere. They are even draped with Spanish moss, which he said he has had on them for years and it has survived amazingly.

Still, my Spanish Moss for the most part is also doing well, but some of it is looking glum. Most of that I got last summer that was "sick" when it was shipped to me has seemed to have died out. The healthy moss that was sent to me is still nice looking, but it is not as nice green looking when wet. I think our lows in the lower 10s for a few mornings took a toll on it. During dry spells, I "mist" it occasionally with water. The moss that I have kept in the house is not well at all, despite only about 5 hours of sunlight and misting it with water daily. I think its just too dry and hot in this room. Some of my outdoor moss that is healthy has SOME areas in it that appear white when wet, rather than green. Thats the parts I think is not doing well. We will see though, we are on the trend toward spring. Hopefully it will survive.

Since my Birmingham and Windmill palms have been successful here, I am thinking of moving onto something even more challenging/risky here. I am going to try a Cabbage palm next. I am also going to plant a Sabal Minor and a Needle palm, which should be fine here, especially the latter, which is a zone 6b now and I am in 7a. It has been said to survive as cold as -25

[HSVTiger]

In the Huntsville area

http://www.coldpalms.com/index.html

[Tennesseestorm]

In the Huntsville area

http://www.coldpalms.com/index.html

Thanks. Thats an interesting website. Do they sell locally only?

I would like to get a larger needle palm. I just purchased three Sabal Minors that I will be planting next week.

[Alabadrock]

Thanks. Thats an interesting website. Do they sell locally only?

I would like to get a larger needle palm. I just purchased three Sabal Minors that I will be planting next week.

My family purchased three from them about a year ago. They told us that they get business from about as far away as Gadsden, but do most of their business in Huntsville and Decatur. If you do live in Bristol like your sidebar thing says you do, they may not survive that far north. The palms we bought survive at just a bit above zero and below that is quite dangerous for them. And, in North Alabama does get down to zero a few times each decade, we're usually the farthest north it's safe for them.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks.. yes, I live in Bristol in northeast Tennessee. I am not sure which palm you are referring to that will not survive here.. are you referring to the Cabbage Palm? Yeah, that one is iffy and I may pass on that, but not sure if you noticed , but there is a photo here of someone 20 miles west of here in Kingsport with a large Cabbage palm that he has had for 3 years without damage. I was told he wraps it with heat tape when temps drop below 15

[Alabadrock]

Thanks.. yes, I live in Bristol in northeast Tennessee. I am not sure which palm you are referring to that will not survive here.. are you referring to the Cabbage Palm? Yeah, that one is iffy and I may pass on that, but not sure if you noticed , but there is a photo here of someone 20 miles west of here in Kingsport with a large Cabbage palm that he has had for 3 years without damage. I was told he wraps it with heat tape when temps drop below 15

[Tennesseestorm]

WOW, I hadn't heard of some of those. Interesting to find out. We have three Windmills, which as you said are OK down to 0. That is weird, cause I remember about a decade ago it getting down to about -1. Hmm, who knows, ridges and valleys can affect the temps A LOT.

Oh yeah- those are some of the most hardy palms. I have had my Windmill palm for about 3 years now and have never given it any protection, but like I said the coldest we have dropped to in 3 years was a couple of 8

[USF_Rockstar]

Coconut palms are where its at... Only in FL from about Martin County south on the east coast and Pinellas County south on the west coast. I'm curious whether or not they live in southern California. It would seem like the climate would permit those palms to live there but I've never seen a picture of one in SoCal.

Ocean Dr., Miami Beach, FL

Key Biscane Causeway

[waccamatt]

I have to admit I like Coconut Palms, but my absolute favorite is the Canary Island Date Palm. I haven't chanced trying to grow one here in 7B, though I think a decent-sized one with the right placement could survive.

[pinetree221]

If your really into palms, I strongly suggest picking up on of Alan W. Meerow's books on the subject. I personally have an old copy of "Betrocks Guide to Landscape Palms", which has some good information about cold-hardy palms. He also has written a book devoted to cold-hardy palms, called "Betrock's Cold Hardy Palms". A search on Amazon on his name will show those books.

Incidentally, I used to live in Charlotte, and I recall seeing a side street in one of the inner suburbs, near one of the hospitals I believe, that had lots of palms. I'm not sure what kind of palms they were, but I believe there were date palm, washington palms, and several palms that may have been Australian fan palms (Livistona australis). They looked like sabal palmettos but their leaves drooped down, like a curtain.

In eastern NC, I remember seeing a lot of those tall yucca plants, which businesses used to use in place of palm trees. I always thought they looked neat.