Condo Developments in Fayetteville

[Mith242]

Most of the condo/mixed-use developments in Fayetteville are around the Square and Dickson St area but it sounds like we could be getting some more outside this area so I thought I'd start a new topic. I already have some pics and news of condos on the corner of North and Leverett. In fact it looks like these condos will be open well before any of the others open in the Dickson St area. The Barber Group apparently recently bought this development. I don't know who owned it before but the project has been really dragging for years now. It was probably 5 years ago when they tore down a couple of old houses that weren't in very good shape. I think it was an empty lot for a year and a half maybe two. Then construction have been slowly dragging along the past 2-3 years. I could be wrong but I was always under the impression that these were going to be apartments. It's nice to see that they'll be condos not apartments. It's also rather unique for the area because there are a lot of apartments in this area. It's not too far away from the university and this area is dominated by apartments and houses that are rented out to students. There's another Barber sign north on Leverett on an empty lot. Not sure if these will also be more condos but I'll keep checking.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Thats a fine looking building indeed. Solid.

[Mith242]

Yeah not bad and I also like that they left some older trees up. But I think a lot of this was done by the former developers. Funny how the former developers got it this far and then ended up seeling it.

[mcheiss]

It kind of looks like a hotel.

How close is this to the downtown area?

[strmchsr77]

We have sort of Condo project going on out on Wedington and Salem Rd. There are 58 units there, and they are all being sold individually. They are called the Chevaux Court Condos, but they are a little more like townhouses/rowhouses. They are pretty much done, and we are in the process of selling them. If you are out that way take a look. You are also invited to come inside we usually have one Open during the weekdays.

[RemusCal]

We have sort of Condo project going on out on Wedington and Salem Rd. There are 58 units there, and they are all being sold individually. They are called the Chevaux Court Condos, but they are a little more like townhouses/rowhouses. They are pretty much done, and we are in the process of selling them. If you are out that way take a look. You are also invited to come inside we usually have one Open during the weekdays.

I really want to see more developers build affordable condos in Fayetteville. There are plenty of students and recent graduates that would buy these places if someone would build them. I mean, the Barber development is great on Dickson street, but what young people can afford a half a million dollar place. That is crazy. We really need to encourage developers to start building affordable housing in Fayetteville. It is ridiculous that there is not more of it.

[strmchsr77]

I really want to see more developers build affordable condos in Fayetteville. There are plenty of students and recent graduates that would buy these places if someone would build them. I mean, the Barber development is great on Dickson street, but what young people can afford a half a million dollar place. That is crazy. We really need to encourage developers to start building affordable housing in Fayetteville. It is ridiculous that there is not more of it.

These off of Wedington are priced much lower than pretty much any other condo development in Fayetteville. I am not sure what the rules are on mentioning prices on here so I won't at this time. But they are 2 bed/2.5 bath/1 car garage units.

[Mith242]

We have sort of Condo project going on out on Wedington and Salem Rd. There are 58 units there, and they are all being sold individually. They are called the Chevaux Court Condos, but they are a little more like townhouses/rowhouses. They are pretty much done, and we are in the process of selling them. If you are out that way take a look. You are also invited to come inside we usually have one Open during the weekdays.

I should go over there sometime just to take a few pics. I'm sure there are other condo projects around but you don't always hear much about the ones away from the Square and Dickson St. Your location threw me off for a second. I keep mixing up Salem and Sang for some reason. Anyway it's great to see some other area getting condos. Especially because these other location away from the Square and Dickson St area should also be more affordable for people.

It kind of looks like a hotel.

How close is this to the downtown area?

Not too close. This is a few blocks north of the university. I think they were going to be apartments. There's been a trend around this area to buy out a couple of houses next door to each other and shove in a small apartment complex in there.

[itk]

These condos are at the NW corner of Leverett and North, aren't they Mith? That's farther than a comfortable walk from campus, but near a bus stop I believe... good location though. I've driven by them several times but never paid much attention-- now that I see the pics, they have an upscale college housing feel to them. I kinda like it.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

These condos are at the NW corner of Leverett and North, aren't they Mith? That's farther than a comfortable walk from campus, but near a bus stop I believe... good location though. I've driven by them several times but never paid much attention-- now that I see the pics, they have an upscale college housing feel to them. I kinda like it.

I think it looks good, all things considered. I like the mix of materials and the arches incorporated into the design.

I lived for a year just about a block north of North and west of Leverett. It was a hike, but I walked to UA everyday.

A lot of development like this will be bought out by investors and rented out in the long run.

[Mith242]

These condos are at the NW corner of Leverett and North, aren't they Mith? That's farther than a comfortable walk from campus, but near a bus stop I believe... good location though. I've driven by them several times but never paid much attention-- now that I see the pics, they have an upscale college housing feel to them. I kinda like it.

Yep that's it. Like I said this area has been slowly going through the process of development for years now. I still remember when there was an old run down house on the corner that was a daycare for a while. But anyway I am just glad they are putting condos elsewhere and especially in this location where everyone else is putting in apartments.

I think it looks good, all things considered. I like the mix of materials and the arches incorporated into the design.

I lived for a year just about a block north of North and west of Leverett. It was a hike, but I walked to UA everyday.

A lot of development like this will be bought out by investors and rented out in the long run.

Yeah good point, I guess I hadn't thought about that. A lot of people own the homes around that area too and they just rent them out as well. Oh well maybe at least some of them will be actually condos for some people.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Yep that's it. Like I said this area has been slowly going through the process of development for years now. I still remember when there was an old run down house on the corner that was a daycare for a while. But anyway I am just glad they are putting condos elsewhere and especially in this location where everyone else is putting in apartments.

Yeah good point, I guess I hadn't thought about that. A lot of people own the homes around that area too and they just rent them out as well. Oh well maybe at least some of them will be actually condos for some people.

Just to clarify, I meant that individuals will likely buy several of these and then in turn rent out their own condos. Lots of parents sending kids to school who can afford it will just buy a condo instead of throwing money away on rent, and then after graduation they will either sell or keep as a rental property. Some will remain owner occupied, which is still better than your typical apartment complex.

I like this building because of the different materials, and because its majority masonry.

Fayetteville's building codes are somewhat restrictive on commercial developments, but most cities down here right now have masonry minimum requirements for residential. It keeps quality up, but it makes every new subdivision look virtually the same -- lots of red brick.

[masons_dad1]

I really want to see more developers build affordable condos in Fayetteville. There are plenty of students and recent graduates that would buy these places if someone would build them. I mean, the Barber development is great on Dickson street, but what young people can afford a half a million dollar place. That is crazy. We really need to encourage developers to start building affordable housing in Fayetteville. It is ridiculous that there is not more of it.

Affordable housing just isn't going to happen here for a long time... say by 2050. Developers just don't want to waste time building affordable housing on expensive properties as it just doesn't make sense. Whose going to build a $100,000 condo on a piece of land valued at $50,000? You might be lucky to find some affordable housing in some areas of the city but I wouldn't bother buying it because eventually "eminent domain" will force you to sell it so developers can build expensive condos.

Many cities are "required" to provide affordable housing but it doesn't apply to Northwest Arkansas.

[Mith242]

I could be wrong but I thought Fayetteville tries to provide some affordable housing. I'm certainly not saying it's much but I'm getting th impression they might be doing more than other cities in NWA. But overall I think most of the effort is being put into rent controlled apartments. I'm not sure if other NWA cities do this very much, and of course you're only renting. I've wondered if that's caused some problems with cheaper homes because of the plethora of apartments in Fayetteville.

[masons_dad1]

I could be wrong but I thought Fayetteville tries to provide some affordable housing. I'm certainly not saying it's much but I'm getting th impression they might be doing more than other cities in NWA. But overall I think most of the effort is being put into rent controlled apartments. I'm not sure if other NWA cities do this very much, and of course you're only renting. I've wondered if that's caused some problems with cheaper homes because of the plethora of apartments in Fayetteville.

Oh there are plenty of so-called "rent controlled apartments" all over Northwest Arkansas. Basically, they're not even called "low-income housing", instread they're called "moderate-income housing". A perfect example is the Bentonville Commons. It's "moderate-income housing". The maximum annual income for a family of three is $24,000. The kicker is the rent for a two-bedroom starts at around $550 per month. Great for a family of three making just under $24,000 per year, but what about people who are on social-security or who are on disability and people unemployed and on "limited" transitional assistance because their job was "outsourced"? I know many people who can't even afford the ugly, roach infested, Lindsey Slums because they only get around $500-$600 per month in disablility and maybe $50 in food stamps. Trust me when I say there are THOUSANDS of people in Northwest Arkansas who have no choice but to live with relatives kind enough to take them in or they simply end up on the street. Habitat for Humanity is trying to shelter the homeless but shelters are being shut down by the state and section 8 housing isn't available to many of these people for years. Until Northwest Arkansas starts providing real public housing options and "flexible-income housing" we will be facing mass crime and mass homelessness in the near future.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Until Northwest Arkansas starts providing real public housing options and "flexible-income housing" we will be facing mass crime and mass homelessness in the near future.

I think thats overstating it.

The vast majority of people adjust to what they can afford and find ways to make it work.

There is disparity between housing options and income levels in NWA, but I don't think its near this scenario.

I read about a new development out in Hindsville where the homes will be less than $100,000.00. Thats about as good as it gets anywhere in the good ole US of A right now.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Affordable housing just isn't going to happen here for a long time... say by 2050. Developers just don't want to waste time building affordable housing on expensive properties as it just doesn't make sense. Whose going to build a $100,000 condo on a piece of land valued at $50,000? You might be lucky to find some affordable housing in some areas of the city but I wouldn't bother buying it because eventually "eminent domain" will force you to sell it so developers can build expensive condos.

Many cities are "required" to provide affordable housing but it doesn't apply to Northwest Arkansas.

The problem I have with subsidized housing is that it is a crime magnet.

Go anywhere, in any city and show me the Section 8, and I will show you high crime rates.

I don't have a problem with subsidies for senior citizens as a safety net. I also don't have a problem with short term subsidies for working people who have fallen on hard times.

When you set the bar low, you provide no incentive for people to strive to do better. If you can't afford an apartment, then you can't afford to have children. I have not procreated yet, partially because I am waiting until I can provide for a family. Its really quite simple.

What I find to be truly unfair is taking money from productive citizens and using it to subsidize the destruction of their communities via long term Section 8 for people who are flat out lazy or can't be bothered to use birth control.

[Mith242]

I'm not sure I'm ready to comment on where this discussion is going. But I will say I do think it would be nice to have more affordable housing. I don't want to see most of the new housing in Fayetteville being $250,000 to $300,000 houses and condos. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those, but not when they seem to make up the percentage they are at the moment. I'd certainly like to see more geared towards the middle class. I also think low income housing can be alright if they do it properly.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I'm not sure I'm ready to comment on where this discussion is going. But I will say I do think it would be nice to have more affordable housing. I don't want to see most of the new housing in Fayetteville being $250,000 to $300,000 houses and condos. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those, but not when they seem to make up the percentage they are at the moment. I'd certainly like to see more geared towards the middle class. I also think low income housing can be alright if they do it properly.

In NWA, its likely that Fayetteville itself will always have higher property values and therefore a higher cost of living. Its a direct result of the things the city has done properly since it was founded, starting with getting the U of A and continuing today with its forward-thinking planning.

That means some people will be priced out of the market. To them, I say "thats life. " I would have loved to have bought a house in a nice area of Dallas. I would have loved to have had lower rent. I chose to live where I lived in Dallas because of the neighborhood and what it had to offer. It meant I couldn't afford an apartment with even a washer and dryer or central HVAC. I had 500 SF, 1 BR and a window AC unit and a leaky faucet, and took trips to the laundromat every weekend. Those were the sacrifices I made after my cost/benefits analysis of living in a nicer neighborhood. After I tired of it, I moved to the burbs where it was cheaper, although my commute was longer.

Those numbers are high for Arkansas, but its because people are willing to pay a little extra to live in Fayetteville. As long as people are willing to pay, then developers will continue to build in that price range. Once demand slackens, sales will stagnate, prices will fall and developers will target lower incomes.

It would be more of an issue IMO if Fayetteville were a large city and there weren't alternative areas in which to live which are more affordable and close by like Springdale, Greenland, or Farmington.

Before considering me an elitist, then please understand that I put myself through college, worked crap jobs while going to school, and took out student loans which I am still paying off. The first two years out of school I barely got by. With hard work, sacrifice and making good choices, anyone can make a better life for themselves. I pay almost as much every year in federal income taxes alone as I was loaned for my education.

My point of view is its unfair to someone like ME if I work my butt off to get into a house in a nice area, make sacrifices, delay having a family, etc. and then my tax dollars are used to put some undisciplined bums in next door to me who will drag my property values down, perhaps increase crime, and overall diminish what I worked hard for in order to achieve.

I agree that it would be nice if developers built some affordable housing in Fayetteville so more young families could afford to get into the housing market. Supply and demand may force many to get starter homes in Springdale or other areas. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There are no guarantees in life.

[Mith242]

I do see your points. Fayetteville is setting itself up in a sense that it will end up pricing some people out if not now then in the future. I can see why it can become that way, but at the same time I'm a bit hesitant. I'm worried that Fayetteville could in a sense become a bit more like Santa Fe where only the rich can afford to live. I hate to keep bringing Santa Fe up but they do have some interesting similarities. I guess I just don't want to see Fayetteville become the 'country club community' of NWA. Santa Fe is a nice city in some ways but in other ways it can seem a bit elitist and even dead. Many who live there don't live there year round and the city lacks in some aspects because of the way it's set up. I imagine Fayetteville won't end up taking that route in the future, but I do worry if our present course seems to be heading a bit in that direction.

[masons_dad1]

The problem I have with subsidized housing is that it is a crime magnet.

Go anywhere, in any city and show me the Section 8, and I will show you high crime rates.

I don't have a problem with subsidies for senior citizens as a safety net. I also don't have a problem with short term subsidies for working people who have fallen on hard times.

When you set the bar low, you provide no incentive for people to strive to do better. If you can't afford an apartment, then you can't afford to have children. I have not procreated yet, partially because I am waiting until I can provide for a family. Its really quite simple.

What I find to be truly unfair is taking money from productive citizens and using it to subsidize the destruction of their communities via long term Section 8 for people who are flat out lazy or can't be bothered to use birth control.

I agree with you that Section 8 isn't exactly something I'd like to see because like you said it's just an easy way out of facing reality for a lot of people who could at least try to better themselves. Also, it's a magnet for crime, but then so are many of the Lindsey Slums in Northwest Arkansas. Don't get me wrong though... these "slums" in Northwest Arkansas are still far better than slums in many big cities.

I do support "flexible-income" housing for people who just got a new job and are trying to get on their feet. Many HUD apartments are limited to 6-month leases that cannot be renewed and believe me these are some very nice-looking apartments. I also support "low-income" housing options for senior citizens or people on disability, which again should be based on their income and not just freebies like Section 8.

As for "affordable homes" being built I can only say developers would like to build them but in the areas with the fastest growth land values are too high to build houses under $100,000... or so I've read in news articles. It's not to say you can't find a decent house for under $100,000 in Northwest Arkansas, but they are hard to find.

I am trying to get my financial situation in order so that when "affordable housing" is more widely available I could move my family into a home of our own someday. My son will be 2 in June and my wife has stayed home since he was born, which has put a burden on us financially, but it was worth it. I know what kids can become when both parents work and they don't have as much time to devote to developing their children. I thank God that we've made it this far without her having to go back to work, but it's getting harder with the cost of living going up and my wages "seemingly" going backwards.

Anyway, Northwest Arkansas is still cheaper than most places that are as nice so I'm not complaining.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I am trying to get my financial situation in order so that when "affordable housing" is more widely available I could move my family into a home of our own someday. My son will be 2 in June and my wife has stayed home since he was born, which has put a burden on us financially, but it was worth it. I know what kids can become when both parents work and they don't have as much time to devote to developing their children. I thank God that we've made it this far without her having to go back to work, but it's getting harder with the cost of living going up and my wages "seemingly" going backwards.

Its a tough time for people entering the market with the rapid increase in home prices and stagnant wages.

Of course interest rates are very very low. In the late 70s and early 80s, people weren't buying because of super high interest rates.

Sounds like your priorities are in the right place.

[strmchsr77]

It looks like Bellafont II will be coming through the Fayetteville planning commission soon. The Barber group is proposing 2 - 16 story condo towers and 2 - 12 story office buildings on a 25 acre parcel just west of the post office and east of the new Lindsey building. Appparently there will be about 100 condos and over 350,000 sq ft of commercial.

This will nearly double the traffic on an already busy street, but if the developers plan to upgrade the streets it could be a really neat project. More on this later...

[Mith242]

It looks like Bellafont II will be coming through the Fayetteville planning commission soon. The Barber group is proposing 2 - 16 story condo towers and 2 - 12 story office buildings on a 25 acre parcel just west of the post office and east of the new Lindsey building. Appparently there will be about 100 condos and over 350,000 sq ft of commercial.

This will nearly double the traffic on an already busy street, but if the developers plan to upgrade the streets it could be a really neat project. More on this later...

I was skimming through the paper and noticed an article mentioning something about really increasing traffic on Joyce, guess it was this. Thanks for the update, now I also know the name of this development.

[strmchsr77]

Here is a link if you would like more information on Bellafont II.

http://www.accessfayetteville.org/pdfs/dow...=4941&revision=