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Tolling in Hampton Roads


vdogg

Hampton Roads Tolls  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Tolls, are they needed?

    • Yes-We need money now, or we will lose federal funding for these projects
      10
    • No-This will only exacerbate problems short term, and not fix anything long term
      4
    • Other-state government needs to learn how to spend money better
      5
    • Other-gas or sales tax or both should be raised instead
      5


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I just got a job offer plus acceptance into the VDOT's Civil Engineering Scholarship Program, and my pay rate for the position is $10.67 per hour. Should put up a lot of insider info. starting in the middle of May of how the state spends its dollars on transportation. :yahoo:

Congrats!! Can't wait to hear some info! :thumbsup:

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I just got a job offer plus acceptance into the VDOT's Civil Engineering Scholarship Program, and my pay rate for the position is $10.67 per hour. Should put up a lot of insider info. starting in the middle of May of how the state spends its dollars on transportation. :yahoo:

Hmm... A lot of people accepted into that program pass through the smart traffic center from time to time. I may see you around. :thumbsup:

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Perhaps a solution to those against tolls would be to place them only on newly constructed roads, and only until the roads are paid off and a trust is funded to handle repairs. This would be very similar to the solution that was employed to get I-264 built. Personally, I would be against setting up a tolling authority, simply because that is going to lead to permanent tolls and permanent tax increases, and like all bureacracies, once established it becomes almost impossible to dismantle.

For those who remained unconvinced, perhaps the state will continue to enjoy large GF surpluses, which will allow for some road construction to take place. For the next two years at least, the state is largely expected to do well economically and I think there remains a considerable pillow of cash beyond the proposed budget. (One of the things the Liberal Party of Canada had become notorious for over the last 6-7 years was intentionally underestimating the budget surplus, then using the heighted surplus for political points to demonstrate fiscal responsibility and shower voters with spending around election time. I wouldn't be surprised if this is happening in VA at the moment). Of course the risk is that should the economy stumble, revenues fall and projects remain unfunded and uncompleted. It also goes without saying that competing regions from the state will all be after that same pool of money, whereas local toll money would have a difficult time leaving that particular area.

Lastly, it appears that slowly but surely that the commonwealth and federal governments are moving towards opening the coast for exploratory drilling. If economically feasible deposits of gas (and less likely oil) are found, an argument for allowing its exploitation could be made that all tax revenue generated from the fields will be used soley for transportation purposes (much like the lottery is used for education). This would probably be a compelling argument for many people who may be wary of potential enviornmental problems, however unlikely (I realize that you will never pacify the envioirnmental wackos who steadily oppose every single hydrocarbon development in the U.S., but they will never be satisified until everyone has to ride a bike from HR to D.C.).

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My only qualm about placing tolls only on newly-built roads is that people will avoid them if there is an alternate route. People will continue using the free road until congestion gets so bad that using the open toll road justifies paying the toll. If tolls are placed on only new roads then they would only pay for a small part of the construction as these roads would only be useful during rush hour. A nominal toll needs to be put on all parallel highways in order for tolls to work.

As for taxing oil production. That's a whole other issue. We have the environmental lobby saying it will pollute our waters. We have preservationists saying it will ruin the view. My question is where do they plan on putting the onshore collection facilities? I don't think the offshore drilling is the problem; it's the onshore collection that is the real environmental issue.

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My only qualm about placing tolls only on newly-built roads is that people will avoid them if there is an alternate route. People will continue using the free road until congestion gets so bad that using the open toll road justifies paying the toll. If tolls are placed on only new roads then they would only pay for a small part of the construction as these roads would only be useful during rush hour. A nominal toll needs to be put on all parallel highways in order for tolls to work.

As for taxing oil production. That's a whole other issue. We have the environmental lobby saying it will pollute our waters. We have preservationists saying it will ruin the view. My question is where do they plan on putting the onshore collection facilities? I don't think the offshore drilling is the problem; it's the onshore collection that is the real environmental issue.

One reason people would pay the toll is that sitting in traffic burns fuel. The cost of the fuel waisted would be offset by the toll. Another reason people would take the new roads is to get were there going faster. As for environmental concerns about offshore drilling, when was the last disaster. It's a red herring just like the nuclear argument. Offshore oil riggs act as man made reafs actually helping the ecollogy of the water.

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odumonarch, that's awesome! I'm taking a freight transportation class in the civil engineering department at Rutgers this semester. I may need to request your help in the weeks to come! haha.

Me too! I know enough about Virginia highways to be of service to VDOT :D

Now I like this idea!

It gives you a discount for signing up for EZ Pass!

NJ for a while had EZ-Pass discounts but later got rid of them.

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Me too! I know enough about Virginia highways to be of service to VDOT :D

NJ for a while had EZ-Pass discounts but later got rid of them.

You're in my class?!?! Can ya help with the take-home mid-term? :lol:

Yeah it was a sad day when the NJ discounts disappeared. There's still discounts on the MTA bridges though. Still, I think the time and frustration saved makes the pass well worth having! Once all the toll plazas on the GSP have the super fast express lanes, I'll be a happy man!

One-Way Tolling and Express E-Z-Pass on the Garden State Parkway

That link has pics of what I think should be developed on HR expressways.

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You're in my class?!?! Can ya help with the take-home mid-term? :lol:

Naw, not yet. Im still working on my endless associates degree. I was referring to getting the hook up internship at VDOT!

If anything, you may be the one for help since i am weak in math & science :(

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My only qualm about placing tolls only on newly-built roads is that people will avoid them if there is an alternate route. People will continue using the free road until congestion gets so bad that using the open toll road justifies paying the toll. If tolls are placed on only new roads then they would only pay for a small part of the construction as these roads would only be useful during rush hour. A nominal toll needs to be put on all parallel highways in order for tolls to work.

As for taxing oil production. That's a whole other issue. We have the environmental lobby saying it will pollute our waters. We have preservationists saying it will ruin the view. My question is where do they plan on putting the onshore collection facilities? I don't think the offshore drilling is the problem; it's the onshore collection that is the real environmental issue.

Well, as erdogs pointed out, people will pay to save time and gas. The argument you're making was actually made when they built (my earlier example) I-264. Opponents back then said that no way would people pay 25 cents when they can just take Virginia Beach Blvd. Well, we see how that turned out...

For something a little bit more recent, take a look at the Chesapeake Expressway. (Some people made the same argument. Why pay $2, when you can just take U.S 17-S?) Well, traffic on that road too is well above where planners projected it would be at this time. And let me tell you, I love it. When I was down this past summer (and each summer since even before I moved) we've used it to go to Nags Head. It is a lot quicker than the other way.

As far as the offshore drilling is concerned, what is largely believed to be out there is natural gas, not oil (at least not in sufficent quantities to make it feasible). As well, the amount gas believed to be out there is not anywhere near Gulf of Mexico/Prudhoe Bay type quantities, not even close. We're talking a moderate amount of gas that would probably be depleted within 20 years. So the fear mongering over an oil spill or massive economic/lifestyle changes for the region is just that, fear mongering. Secondly, any drilling rig would be at least 15 miles offshore, which means you wouldn't be able to see them from the beach. Onshore collection would almost certainly be through underground pipelines, again out of the view of locals/tourists. As erdogs points out, the last major drilling spill (and it was oil) was 40 years ago. I think allowing it to go forward represents one way that people who are opposed to permanent tax increases might otherwise afford the state the revenue it needs for new roads construction.

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