Three Six Mafia at the Academy Awards

[fieldmarshaldj]

rap is a reflection of what is going on in that community. the community is not a reflection of what is going on with rap.

A better question would be, where would the community be if this garbage had never come to pass ? I'd dare say a safer, less criminal, more family-friendly, respectful, hopeful and innovative one. Kind of like what the community once USED to be pre-rap.

[fieldmarshaldj]

fieldmarshaldj, I'm not going to try to change your opinion or anything...but I'm just curious...Have you seen HUSTLE AND FLOW? You know, the movie that won the oscar. The most "denigrating aspects of civilization" are in no way put in a positive light.

No, I haven't seen it, yet. I tend to wait for films to pop up on pay movie channels, although that's not a genre I tend to watch much anymore. I was keeping my comments more towards those that received the Oscar for the "song."

[sleepy]

The movie that the song came from certainly didn't glorify the lifestyle. It was about a brutal pimp trying to get out of the life. And he wasn't glamorized, but portrayed as a loser.

[satalac]

A better question would be, where would the community be if this garbage had never come to pass ? I'd dare say a safer, less criminal, more family-friendly, respectful, hopeful and innovative one. Kind of like what the community once USED to be pre-rap.

where do you get this notion that the inner city was this fabulous place before rap? how can you prove to us that rap has indeed caused all of this death and destruction? it seems like you're just using rap as a scapegoat. if a problem is too hard to fix, well i guess we better just blame it on a form of musical expression that i don't agree with. and of course in 1984 people would have looked at you funny if you said gangsta rap. you have to remember the time period when gangsta rap came out. it came out when there was a lot of civil unrest (L.A. riots). N.W.A. was a group who pretty much pioneered gangsta rap. what they were singing about were the things that were happening to them. why is it so hard to think that these guys were fed up about the way they were being treated and wrote music to express their anger towards those who were oppressing them? and yes, rappers did help out in new orleans. david banner, a resident of mississippi used his tour bus to get people out of the city. he also donated money and time, and still is to this day. T.I. called out every rapper and music industy on the radio and challenged them to at least write a check to help out with the rescue efforts. and most of all, these rappers have given these people affected by the debacle a voice and emotional support. it was not the rapper's fault that these people could not get out of new orleans. to say something like this shows that you are truely out of touch with hip hop and it's culture, along with those who live inside the inner city.

[mandrws1]

I'm totally agreeing with Satalac on this one! As a person who spent many years growing up in North Memphis, I can assure you that rap music doesn't breed criminals. If both parents (most times one parent) are working two jobs and you're still hungry, stealing doesn't seem too bad once it stops the stomach rumbles. Rap music doesn't make people hungry. There are many positive rappers (Talib Kweli, David Banner, Common, Kanye West, etc.) who don't glorify crime, but the ones who do are simply telling a story using words. These stories are obviously becoming more and more lucrative to rappers because of "mainstream America" because 4 out of 5 hip-hop cd's are purchased by white people. Being college educated and from the inner city, I have lived on both sides of the fence and I know for a fact that rap hasn't created these social problems in the black community. I work with white guys and they are always asking me about the latest rap cd's not because they want to glorify criminal acts, but IMO they want to be entertained by musically visiting a place they've never been before. I'm assuming some of you guys that listen to rap are white, if so, I would love to hear whats so fascinating about hip hop.... or do you listen to it to get ideas about how to committ crime?

[satalac]

i am a white kid who grew up in nashville. i have always liked hip hop because it has expanded my views musically and socially. hip hop is definatly thought provoking. some of these artists are extremely poetic and the ways they use words are amazing. and then there is rap, which i consider to be pure entertainment. it helps me escape my mundane white world and go to a place that is a lot more interesting to me. it's the same reason people listen to any type of music, to get away and/or have fun. mandrws1 did an excellent job explaining how most of the people who buy rap music are white males in the suburbs. and you know what happens when a white male in the suburbs commit a crime? it gets blamed on heavy metal music (columbine). see, music has always been used as a scapegoat for our social ills. it just matters on where you live and what color of your skin as to which music gets blamed.

[Southernyank]

You know what? I just realized something thats really crazy.

Three six mafia award count:

Grammys: 0

Oscars : 1

[fieldmarshaldj]

i am a white kid who grew up in nashville. i have always liked hip hop because it has expanded my views musically and socially. hip hop is definatly thought provoking. some of these artists are extremely poetic and the ways they use words are amazing. and then there is rap, which i consider to be pure entertainment. it helps me escape my mundane white world and go to a place that is a lot more interesting to me. it's the same reason people listen to any type of music, to get away and/or have fun. mandrws1 did an excellent job explaining how most of the people who buy rap music are white males in the suburbs. and you know what happens when a white male in the suburbs commit a crime? it gets blamed on heavy metal music (columbine). see, music has always been used as a scapegoat for our social ills. it just matters on where you live and what color of your skin as to which music gets blamed.

Satalac, as much as I'd like to and at the risk of running afoul of the moderators, I don't have the time to refute most of what you're saying, so we're going to have to agree to disagree on our points. I'll leave you with this, perhaps with maturity and once you have children, you may wake up to realize my points and conclusions are quite valid.

[mandrws1]

Satalac, as much as I'd like to and at the risk of running afoul of the moderators, I don't have the time to refute most of what you're saying, so we're going to have to agree to disagree on our points. I'll leave you with this, perhaps with maturity and once you have children, you may wake up to realize my points and conclusions are quite valid.

I have a 2 year old and a 3 year old and they love music. While in the car, we may listen to Jay Z, Maroon 5, Young Jeezy, or Nirvana (they love to scream along when I play "smells like teen spirit!"). I think that music is universal. While I wouldn't play the explicit versions of Three-6 with them around, if they choose to listen to it when they're older it won't be a problem. I think thats why hip-hop has become so popular because parents try to restrict it and of course kids do the opposite of what parents say. I think surburban kids are fascinated by the urban culture, just as I am fascinated by the rich, carefree culture of rich white people (thats why I watch "The O.C." every Thursday) Curiosity is human nature. Three-6 aren't the best lyricists anyway, they're more of the crunk, entertainer style rappers. But I urge yall to listen to certain rappers to get a full understanding of some of the pain, hopes, dreams, struggle, and history in the music form. The commercialized form of "gangsta rap" is purely entertainment and fictional in some cases. Nas, Playa Fly, Kanye and others do a superb job in painting a lyrical picture of some of the inner city woes that so many people experience every day.

[Clobber]

Nope, it hasn't exclusively paralleled the problem, it created problems where none previously existed.

That's absolutely wrong. Rap promoted, perhaps accelerated problems. It NEVER created problems where none previously existed. What, no black-on-black crime existed before rap? No drug violence? No gangs. Gangs weren't created by the rap industry. Black-on-black crime was not created by the rap industry. Crime itself was not created by the rap industry. Drug violence was not created by the rap industry. The problems preexisted their being featured in lyrics. Rap created, promoted contrarian rebels. Those rebels promoted these problems. And it did affect society's and the youth's embrace of those problems. You simply can't pinpoint the invention of any crime to any musical genre. And I'd like to know one problem whose mere existence can be pinpointed to rap, as opposed to being a preexisting condition that average America and the media ignored until it was exposed before them.

You can't single Rap out for the drug culture (see hard rock, metal, grunge, even normal rock). You can't single them out for unorthodox behavior. You can't single them out for misogyny (blues, metal, grunge). You might be able to single them out for violence, particularly black-on-black. You might be able to single them out because these negative images are so pervasive through the genre, more so than most other genres. But that's just about it. It's a lot, but it also needs to be balanced in a rational context and perspective.

There's no question that balance needs to be struck in the hip-hop industry. More positive messages need to be promoted. I think Hustle and Flow does that. The meaning of the movie is not glorification of a deviant lifestyle. It's the exact opposite. It does not show pimpin' in a positive light at all. No one in the movie is gravitating toward the lifestyle; it's portrayed miserably and everyone associated with it is trying to get away and pursue their dreams and a higher calling. I don't know; it seems many people are missing that message from this film. As well as the message that if you commit a crime, you're going to do time, even if it was somewhat vigilante deserved justice. You're going to the cell. I think those are important, worthwhile messages that everyone, particularly the youth, should learn.

[Clobber]

Rap is a red herring. Trying to cite the source of these problems to rap music seems to be a somewhat distracted attempt to try to wrap up problems into a neat little box, with a bow on top. As if you could get rid of those problems by getting rid of rap music. That completely ignores all of the other social viruses that truly contribute and exacerbate the problem, such as underaged pregnancy, dropout rates and a mediocre education system, a welfare system that imprisons people into a web of dependency.

It's convenient to believe that rap is the source of the problems. I think people resort to that because they realize it's incredibly difficult to tackle the real problems. You have to deal with race- and economically-tinged politics that get visceral and reactionary instead of collaborative and results-oriented. You have to deal with less-than-ideal households and social structures. It takes true responsibility to resolve these problems. And in this fast-food age, no one has the patience or the will to take that on. Different segments of society would have to swallow their pride and relinquish desires for credit, power, money, and fame in order to resolve it. The desire on a national level doesn't exist.

[Bears]

^Yea Craig Brewer said something like "I see pimps on TV with jewels and living a lavish life, but growing up seeing real pimps, thats not reality."

Off topic: Anyone hear about the next Craig Brewer film Black Snake Moan which is in post production and coming out this year. Its about "a white nymphomaniac who must be 'cured' of her disorder by an older black blues man." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462200/

This could be intresting

[sleepy]

Satalac, as much as I'd like to and at the risk of running afoul of the moderators, I don't have the time to refute most of what you're saying, so we're going to have to agree to disagree on our points. I'll leave you with this, perhaps with maturity and once you have children, you may wake up to realize my points and conclusions are quite valid.

I've got a 15 yr. old who listens to it all. I took him to see Hustle and Flow. He commits no crimes and makes straight A's. I also teach farmboys at two community colleges in Iowa and Minnesota. They listen to hip hop on their tractors, wear baggy jeans and sideways caps. In my classes I always pose the question--does hip hop corrupt. They roll their eyes like I'm an idiot and say it's just song lyrics and anyone with half a brain can tell the difference. I question female students about the vulgar references to women. Again, the same response.

Do I like hip hop? No, I'm 54 and far too old. And when most rappers today are my age, their own kids will be listening to something else, not that old "hip hop".

Check out some old Johnny Cash from the 50's--"Delia's Gone"--when he sings about machine gunning his wife. I don't think his lyrics caused poor white southern poverty, but it reflected it.

And if someone wants to make the argument that hip hop has increased urban crime--the fact is that urban crime rates have generally declined considerably since the popularity of hip hop.

[Southernyank]

All I can really say is that I've been a real hip hop head since 2pacalypse now (1991) and I've never been influenced by any lyric to pursue a negative lifestyle. NEVER!

And if you don't believe me, I'ma bust a cap on this thread!!!

[satalac]

Satalac, as much as I'd like to and at the risk of running afoul of the moderators, I don't have the time to refute most of what you're saying, so we're going to have to agree to disagree on our points. I'll leave you with this, perhaps with maturity and once you have children, you may wake up to realize my points and conclusions are quite valid.

looks like we will have to agree to disagree. and while i do consider myself mature, i don't let trying too hard to be mature cloud my view on reality. and i'm not saying hip hop and rap is for kids. it's up to parents to raise their children, no one else.

[it's just dave]

I'm not getting into this except to add a personal experience. I live in a nice middle class, predominantly white neighborhood. My neighbor is a white woman with 3 mixed race children. Her boyfriends are always black. I have no problem with that. The bad guy jail now, so he's no longer a concern. The current bf is fine, polite but oftens plays his rap music a little louder than my old white ears would prefer, but it's not intolerable. I have a problem with some of the choices, for I choose not to listen to explicit lyrics while sitting on my patio.

The problem I've seen occur lately is that now, the 7-year old doesn't call his little 3-year-old sister by her name anymore. Suddenly, he's taken to calling her Niggah Ho' beotch. So, yes, I have a problem with this. Now, I'm building a fence. So much for integrating with nice society. The kids have become rude, mouthy little beotchs. The difference is night and day, and the only thing I can see change is the influence of the new boyfriend. I sad to see that their futures are probably going to suck.

If fieldmarshalj's comments were studied carefully and not so quickly defended for the sake of uploading the "cool", I think you'd understand he's making many good points. Sure, people have a right to listen to what they want. I do disagree with the blanket glorification of this crap. My next defense is to get my old Hank Williams discs out, get a giant subwoofer and show the neighbors what ho beotch really means.

[satalac]

I'm not getting into this except to add a personal experience. I live in a nice middle class, predominantly white neighborhood. My neighbor is a white woman with 3 mixed race children. Her boyfriends are always black. I have no problem with that. The bad guy jail now, so he's no longer a concern. The current bf is fine, polite but oftens plays his rap music a little louder than my old white ears would prefer, but it's not intolerable. I have a problem with some of the choices, for I choose not to listen to explicit lyrics while sitting on my patio.

The problem I've seen occur lately is that now, the 7-year old doesn't call his little 3-year-old sister by her name anymore. Suddenly, he's taken to calling her Niggah Ho' beotch. So, yes, I have a problem with this. Now, I'm building a fence. So much for integrating with nice society. The kids have become rude, mouthy little beotchs. The difference is night and day, and the only thing I can see change is the influence of the new boyfriend. I sad to see that their futures are probably going to suck.

If fieldmarshalj's comments were studied carefully and not so quickly defended for the sake of uploading the "cool", I think you'd understand he's making many good points. Sure, people have a right to listen to what they want. I do disagree with the blanket glorification of this crap. My next defense is to get my old Hank Williams discs out, get a giant subwoofer and show the neighbors what ho beotch really means.

this comes down to parenting. would i let my children listen to music with those kind of words in them? no. just as i wouldn't let my child around a gun. you have to wait till a person is mature enough to handle these things. so am i saying that rap can be caustic like a gun? sure. but that's because the parents have not made sure that their child is mature enough to handle these things. it's not up to rappers to raise our children. if my son called my daughter a niggah ho beotch, i would make sure it would be the last time he did so. the problem with society today is that nobody wants to take responsibility for things anymore. and when we don't take responsibility for things, we tend to blame it on other causes that seem like they might be the cause of it. we really need to be searching for the root of the problem and not spend our time pointing fingers.

[sleepy]

I'm not getting into this except to add a personal experience. I live in a nice middle class, predominantly white neighborhood. My neighbor is a white woman with 3 mixed race children. Her boyfriends are always black. I have no problem with that. The bad guy jail now, so he's no longer a concern. The current bf is fine, polite but oftens plays his rap music a little louder than my old white ears would prefer, but it's not intolerable. I have a problem with some of the choices, for I choose not to listen to explicit lyrics while sitting on my patio.

The problem I've seen occur lately is that now, the 7-year old doesn't call his little 3-year-old sister by her name anymore. Suddenly, he's taken to calling her Niggah Ho' beotch. So, yes, I have a problem with this. Now, I'm building a fence. So much for integrating with nice society. The kids have become rude, mouthy little beotchs. The difference is night and day, and the only thing I can see change is the influence of the new boyfriend. I sad to see that their futures are probably going to suck.

If fieldmarshalj's comments were studied carefully and not so quickly defended for the sake of uploading the "cool", I think you'd understand he's making many good points. Sure, people have a right to listen to what they want. I do disagree with the blanket glorification of this crap. My next defense is to get my old Hank Williams discs out, get a giant subwoofer and show the neighbors what ho beotch really means.

But people were calling each other "Niggah Ho' beotch" before hip hop.

My student-farmboys and my son who listen to the same tunes as your neighbor don't use that language. I don't think it's the music, but the upbringing.

And my objections to fieldmashalj's comments aren't in defense of "cool", since I think hip-hop is, frankly, stupid. My objections stem from the fact that I don't think the music itself causes the problems he thinks it does.

Again, take a listen to the 50's Johnny Cash---talks about belly-knifing someone who called him a redneck, tying his wife up and shooting her in the head. As I said, I don't think that caused poor southern white violence. It might have reflected it.

To get real academic about it, there's a whole tradition of British murder ballads which date from the 17th century which revel in murder and mayhem. A lot of that stuff, of course, found its way into Appalachian music.

[mandrws1]

My children have heard some of the most explicit rap lyrics ever, because of their uncle (my little brother), and they know what they can repeat and what they cannot repeat. Its how children are raised. My 3 year old heard a Tupac song called "I'll never call you bi*%! again" which is a positive song dedicated to black women. He asked me what a beotch was and I explained to him the dictionary definition and the street definition. When children know right from wrong and the meanings of words, they also know what they can and can't repeat. The children next door to dave are worse off from their mother's actions than those of the boyfriend because its obvious she allows him to have this negative impact on the kids. The single parent syndrome is responsible for those kids behavior, not rap.

[mandrws1]

And my objections to fieldmashalj's comments aren't in defense of "cool", since I think hip-hop is, frankly, stupid.

If I were only exposed to the MTV and BET versions of hip-hop, I probably would feel this way too. Its gets old to see half naked girls and guns and alcohol on commercialized rap videos, but this is the stuff that sells. Once again, I urge yall to listen to some "REAL" hip hop from people like Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, David Banner, Playa Fly, the Roots, etc. before you pass judgement on the music and then maybe you'll understand the commercialized stuff you see in videos.

[Southernyank]

I can completely understand why people who don't really know much about hip hop and its history would think that all rap music is stupid. If all you see is the commercialized image of rap, then its easy to call the whole genre stupid. I know this because I look at the commercial music that is coming out these days, and a lot of times, I find myself thinking, what the hell??!! It's easy to pass judgement if all you see is one side. Its almost like a world you know exists but you never go for a visit. Example, for the longest time, I could tell you that all Rock and Roll music is is cross dressing men who destroy their guitars on stage. I know that is'nt what all Rock and Roll is about, now that i'm older and and better informed, but since I never really endulged in the art form or history, all I could tell you is what I saw.

There are different facets of rap music just like Rock. you have your Gangsta Rap, your Crunk music (which is what most of y'all are seeing these days, that evolved from Miami style booty bass). You also have Hip Hop, which is the Grandaddy of them all. you cant just classify rap in one big category because their are so many different styles out their. sure their are some songs meant mainly for the club for women to dance to as well as party rap(no they are not the same thing). There are also songs to make you more politically concious (the pioneers of this type of rap were Public Enemy). There is also music that informs the world what is going on each artist's block.

I've learned not to get angry over the years when someone geralizes the music (And Yes fieldmashalj it is Music, with no quotes) because there has never been anything in this world that could please everybody. Heck, Jesus could'nt even please everybody.

[soverbey]

Congrats to Three Six Mafia, representin' Memphis!

[soverbey]

Did anyone see Three Six Mafia perform at the Beale Street Musicfest?

[UptownNewOrleans]

If you want to change rap, change the conditions. Take away the killing, hustling & poverty and paint the inner-city with smiley faces & daisies, have rappers make songs about playing hopscotch and then rap will be better off. As long as poverty & street violence remain in the black community, then that's what rappers will continue to talk about. Anyone who can make it out of the ghetto and be a successful rap star, businessman, doctor, etc. gets much love from me. I do agree with you on one count, we have to show youngsters that criminality & violence is nothing to glorify

Three 6 is simply telling it like it is. They grew up in the worst part of Memphis (North Memphis) and their music is simply a reflection of what goes down in inner-city Memphis. One thing I do like is how 3-6 Mafia consistently reps Memphis in their music.

[bluff2085]

Most rap that consistently glorifies guns, hoes,etc pretty much sucks. It's just crappy music. Don't let MTV/BET be your judging sticks. As someone said earlier, try listening to Playa Fly. "Nobody Needs Nobody" has been referred to by many locals as the best rap song to come out of Memphis. "Feel Me" is another good one.