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BTW, to add to Dan's comments, ask monsoon on the Charlotte board what he thinks of their new arena. It was financed by Charlotte taxpayers to the tune of $265M and they don't get a sniff of the revenues--all goes to Bobcats and Robert Johnson--even the non NBA events, and Charlotte must provide traffic control for every event @ $1M per year. It's a nice arena and all, but it was a horrible deal for Charlotte if you ask me.

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BTW, to add to Dan's comments, ask monsoon on the Charlotte board what he thinks of their new arena. It was financed by Charlotte taxpayers to the tune of $265M and they don't get a sniff of the revenues--all goes to Bobcats and Robert Johnson--even the non NBA events, and Charlotte must provide traffic control for every event @ $1M per year. It's a nice arena and all, but it was a horrible deal for Charlotte if you ask me.

Will Charlotte (or any city) benefit from development that is related to a DT Stadium?

If the answer is No, then things like convention centers also should be built where it is the least expensive.

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Look at the most developed urban cores in the United States and most likely there is no arena or if there is its in a marginalized area. SF has no stadium downtown, NYC has no stadium in Manhattan (Yankees Stadium is in the Bronx), Boston's arena (Fleet Center or whatever they are calling it now) is in one of the most unhappening areas of Boston. I say arenas are not the answer to developing a downtown.

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Look at the most developed urban cores in the United States and most likely there is no arena or if there is its in a marginalized area. SF has no stadium downtown, NYC has no stadium in Manhattan (Yankees Stadium is in the Bronx), Boston's arena (Fleet Center or whatever they are calling it now) is in one of the most unhappening areas of Boston. I say arenas are not the answer to developing a downtown.

The next time you're in Boston, stand in front of the Fleet Center, and walk 4-6 minutes towards the water into the North End to hanover Street. Hanover Street has more energy and vitality than most of the Triangle combined.

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The next time you're in Boston, stand in front of the Fleet Center, and walk 4-6 minutes towards the water into the North End to hanover Street. Hanover Street has more energy and vitality than most of the Triangle combined.

I think Dan was referring to Gilette Stadium.

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I was going to mention the North End, however, this area has no connection to the arena area. It may be close but the people going to Fleet Center are not the same people hanging out in the North End. How many people do you see wearing their Celtics Starter Jackets in the Italian restaurants/bars, etc.

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I'm sure those cities mentioned above would benefit from stadiums in their Downtowns. Those cities are some of the most expensive land in the country, though, so it doesn't make economic sense to put a stadium up, where there could be a dozen billion dollar buildings could go. Those cities also have complete downtowns, and have no need to re-energize them.

How about Washington, DC? Isn't MCI Center right down in China town?

Detroit just built 2 stadiums in their downtowns, from what I've heard, they are leading to other developments...

Building a stadium that is full for 200 nights a year would be a gain for any down town. Raleigh built one in the sticks for various reasons, and will have to live with it for 20 years.

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Look at the most developed urban cores in the United States and most likely there is no arena or if there is its in a marginalized area. SF has no stadium downtown, NYC has no stadium in Manhattan (Yankees Stadium is in the Bronx), Boston's arena (Fleet Center or whatever they are calling it now) is in one of the most unhappening areas of Boston. I say arenas are not the answer to developing a downtown.

Also, all of Philly's ML arenas/fields are outside of DT and with Denver, Coors field is DT with the Pepsi Center close enough and Invesco @ Mile High is along side DT but still for the most part, a car trip away. (Maybe a rail link).

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The MCI center has taken what was a blighted area of Washington D.C. and turned the area in a vibrant mix of restaurants and bars. If you are in proximity to the MCI center on a game night I would bet you would agree. I think downtown arenas add a alot to a downtown. The question is whether the return on the investment in terms of development is worth it or if the same resources can get a better bang for the buck. Based on my visits I would suspect that there are better uses for Raleigh in that there is not a specific neighborhood that is being focused on for redevelopment, but rather the whole downtown concept. So I believe it may be a bit premature to be discussing an arena. I would love to see one in the future and hope the city grows to a sufficient level to add additional professional sports one day.

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Here's an idea. Let's say after 3 or 4 Stanley cups and new money ideas for arenas and the Canes and the city/state come to a plan for a new arena in 25 years, I would propose building it around the Red Roof which is a little south of DT. You see this in many cities with DT arenas/fields that sit off of DT. San Jose is like that and along with Denver and the football stadium in Nashville. Or maybe a better solution would be to take the place of the Dog Food plant and reroute Hammond Road to circle it.

It is so far off in time, we may end up putting it near the airport.

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BTW, to add to Dan's comments, ask monsoon on the Charlotte board what he thinks of their new arena. It was financed by Charlotte taxpayers to the tune of $265M and they don't get a sniff of the revenues--all goes to Bobcats and Robert Johnson--even the non NBA events, and Charlotte must provide traffic control for every event @ $1M per year. It's a nice arena and all, but it was a horrible deal for Charlotte if you ask me.

Thats a horrible deal for Charlotte...but I guess thats the price to pay to have a name.

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Atlanta: They've spent >$2B over the last 35 years developing/redeveloping/redeveloping/redeveloping the World Congress Center/ Omni/ Underground/ Ga Dome area. They STILL are swimming upstream getting Atlanta people to come to that area. Underground is on its last legs...again. The Omni went bankrupt twice in the 70's. Who knows how its performed under CNN. Sonja Live only ever had conventioneers in the audience, not middle America.

Washington DC: Chinatown area was already booming before MCI opened. I'm not saying that MCI hurt the area by any means. However, was there ever anything but slums around RFK? They never got anything good going in that area.

I'm not saying downtown arenas are bad, and it would be a different situation if we were starting with a clean slate, but for now, there is too much evidence that the success of bars/restaurants is independent of sports venues. I do think that convention centers and mob-at-once sporting venues are entirely different developement beasts.

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For what it's worth, the only taxpayers who are paying for the Bobcats Arena are the ones who stay in hotels. It's the Charlotte hotel/motel tax that financed the construction of our arena. Charlotte taxpayers foot the bill for policing the area around the arena during events.

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Charlotte's attendance isn't any better with their downtown arena than it was out near the old landfill. WHERE is the evidence that downtown arenas do better than suburban ones?

I'll check back on this thread in 25 years.

Actually the attendance has jumped in Charlotte, from 29th to 19th despite nearly 100% raise in prices. :) The new arena could be part of the jump, however last year was the expansion year. Also this takes into account the sellouts that we had in the Coliseum (We had about 10 in 41 home games) for Opening day, LeBron, Shaq, the Pistons, etc. The Coliseum had almost 4,000 more seats yet still was a lot lower attendance. Also the Bobcats record isn't exactly stunning this year. There seems to be a slight corelation between arena location and attendance, however it isn't enough to warrant a new arena for RAL. Maybe in 15 years if the city tries to get an NBA team down the road...BTW Raleigh will not get an ACC tourni until its atleast as Large as Charlotte. Only one city (Atl) has had the ACC tourni in recent years with an ACC team within the city. The University of Maryland in College Park is within the Metro of DC however both DC and Atlanta metro areas are much larger than the triangle. Sorry, but the ACC tourni will not be there for a long long time. :(

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Raleigh is already large enough to hold an ACC tourney, but the only facility that we have large enough to hold it is also the home court of an ACC team.

The other major factor concerning facilities is that with the expansion of the league, that means fewer tickets per school. In order to counteract this, the league will probably start favoring larger facilities (domes) over traditional arenas.

If Raleigh had a neutral court that seated 25,000 people we'd definitely have a chance at getting into the tournament rotation. You were right about that not happening anytime soon though; the RBC center serves us well right now and is fairly new.

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RBC has hosted the NCAA Tourney opening rounds before so size is not the issue. The only reason that Raleigh has not hosted the ACC is the home court bs. I really think Greensboro hosting it is a big mistake for the vitality of the tournament. More excitement is generated for the Duke-UNC game than the ACC tourney will have in its present state. The ACC tourney is almost becoming an afterthought.

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I do think that the ACC tourney should be based in Greensboro instead of the current float pattern. The ACC is headquarted in Greensboro, so it makes sense. Also, it is the central location for all schools. However, this won't happen because the ACC is about making as much money as possible. Oh well, I guess that I will have to suck it up and fly to Boston(stupid?) to see my team play.

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Charlotte's arena has been a huge success for the city, leading to better attendance for sporting events, big redevelopment projects in the vicinity and the addition of thousands of people to the downtown streets, 150 days per year.

I echo others on the forum in saying Raleigh needs to do the best with what it has. Find a way to make the arena as attractive a total destination as possible. As far as downtown, the combined fayetteville st project, museums, etc are recreating it as an incredible destination. Sure, it would be more populated with an arena, but its not really needed.

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Do you think that in 10 years Raleigh,(the Triangle), could support an NBA franchise? Do you think an NBA team would take away or add to the already great college fan base that we have here?

With a team in Charlotte, I don't see it happening. Even if the Bobcats left Charlotte like the Hornets did, they would not put a team back in NC.

I think the best we can do is a first division MSL team. There is a 2nd division team in the plans.

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With a team in Charlotte, I don't see it happening. Even if the Bobcats left Charlotte like the Hornets did, they would not put a team back in NC.

I think the best we can do is a first division MSL team. There is a 2nd division team in the plans.

You mean MLS like Major League Soccer? That would be awesome IMO as Raleigh has one of the largest youth soccer leagues in the nation in CASL. Also I believe a soccer stadium would not overwhelm our geographically smallish downtown like an NFL stadium would. I bet a lot of people here think this is second rate but I think its a great reality based option.

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You mean MLS like Major League Soccer? That would be awesome IMO as Raleigh has one of the largest youth soccer leagues in the nation in CASL. Also I believe a soccer stadium would not overwhelm our geographically smallish downtown like an NFL stadium would. I bet a lot of people here think this is second rate but I think its a great reality based option.

It's going to be in Cary. :(

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