RBC Center

[monsoon]

Indeed there is new construction around the arena, but it would have come anyway. Charlotte's revival of downtown was occuring despite the construction of the arena. A telling tale however is the places you mention have not been rented. They sit there closed as there are no customers when the arena is closed and when there is an event at the arena, they are competing against the restaurants inside the place.

[DanRNC]

Study after study has shown that arena/stadium construction does not positively impact development. The only people that benefit are the sports franchises that get cheap or free rent.

[pdxheel]

Study after study has shown that arena/stadium construction does not positively impact development. The only people that benefit are the sports franchises that get cheap or free rent.

This statement is partially correct. I've actually studied and researched this topic extensively in graduate school. A DT arena/stadium doesn't bring an economic impact, but it doesn contribute the revitalization/redevelopment of an area.

[krazeeboi]

Is that last "doesn't" (actualy "doesn") supposed to be "does"?

[thewhister]

This past March I went to visit a friend in Phoenix and went to see the new Arizona Cardinals staduim being built in Glendale (a suburb of Phoenix). I was shocked that this stadium was being built in the middle of this patch of desert. Then come to find out that the Glendale Arena (where the Phoenix Coyotes play) was built in this area also and is part of a major commercial / residential development. They used to play at America West Arena downtown (which is now US Airways Arena)

Seems like the development around RBC and Carter-Finley can be something of this nature....hopefully better than what is being done there.

Westgate City Center

[pdxheel]

Is that last "doesn't" (actualy "doesn") supposed to be "does"?

It should be does...sorry abut that.

[Jones_]

This statement is partially correct. I've actually studied and researched this topic extensively in graduate school. A DT arena/stadium doesn't bring an economic impact, but it doesn contribute the revitalization/redevelopment of an area.

Indeed it is a redevelopment of an area.....but I still contend that from a quality of life standpoint this redevelopment is a negative impact....unless you like to live walking distance from acres of surface or structured parking, like to be near establishments (restaurants) that tend to rely on game day traffic...etc....I still want to hear what your idea of how stadiums postively affect the quality of life adjacent to them.....I would agree that say RBC should be nearer to downtown but definitely not IN downtown.

[ncsugrad204]

check this link and give a good oponion for or against the article. I personally agree with it. so true

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/453747.html

[avery]

I enjoyed the column myself and especially liked the jab at the Charlotte reporter who said the Stanley Cup was not a big deal. As for the RBC's location...oh well. No use crying over spilled milk. The arena is where it is and it is a helluva nice facility.

[raleightransplant]

Wade will certainly help matters out by RBC. It's not like the arena is in Apex or something. It could be worse. Build it up so there is continuous urbanity to DT, and not much harm is done. It looks like DT is going to become a destination in itself here shortly. It would have been nice, but what's done is done.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the Clt Observer article Saunders was talking about. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

On Saunders column... "Say, Sweet Thang. Let's just grab a couple of Big Macs and go home and wrap each other up in cellophane." I guess we can debate the merits of a DT arena forever, but it's not moving anytime soon.

There are pluses to it's current location:

1. Great hwy access.

2. Plenty of parking

3. Creates major sports complex (with C-F)

4. W Raleigh location is more "regionally located," as in ppl from Cary, Durham and Chapel hill can drive there fairly easily.

[paletexan]

I loathe My Sanders as a columnist, but I agree with the article looking at it in hindsight. Several years ago when the decision was made, downtown was a non destination, and a downtown arena would have been a complete failure for the first decade or so IMO.

The momentum downtown is great now, and maybe if the canes continue to draw fans, they can build another arena downtown and leave RBC solely for NCSU.

[JDC]

But even with all that, it'd still be better downtown.

I think that Charlotte Observer thing is just plain awful. No regular season college basketball game or freakin' NASCAR race is better than any game seven championship in any professional sport.

[sax184]

RBC is a nice arena in a pitiful location. The fact that it is in a cornfield is why we lost the CIAA to Charlotte, and why we will continue to struggle to host major events/tournaments.

[raleightransplant]

No doubt it upsets some people down there, although I do think some people (maybe even most) are happy for us. We have ALL these colleges up here in the Triangle. They win National Championships like you can't believe...and it's all here. To top that off, we have the first major league title as well. A pro sports championship is something they would want down there (and who could blame them)...the college scene isn't so great, so that's all they've got. Their college focus has always been rooting for the hoops teams on Tobacco Road. Now their attention is here for pro sports titles as well.

[DanRNC]

RBC is a nice arena in a pitiful location. The fact that it is in a cornfield is why we lost the CIAA to Charlotte, and why we will continue to struggle to host major events/tournaments.

The arena in Charlotte is downtown and most likely will never get major tourneys-its too small. Raleigh lost the CIAA because Jim Black funneled money from the NC Legislature to increase the payoffs to the CIAA in the form of "scholarships".

[sax184]

The arena in Charlotte is downtown and most likely will never get major tourneys-its too small. Raleigh lost the CIAA because Jim Black funneled money from the NC Legislature to increase the payoffs to the CIAA in the form of "scholarships".

The RBC holds 19,722 for basketball.

http://www.virginiaathleticsfoundation.com...iththeJones.htm

Charlotte's arena holds 20,200 for college basketball.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Bobcats_Arena

The Greensboro Coliseum is the biggest arena in the state with 23,500. To my knowledge, since the ACC Tournament is not supposed to be played on any team's home court, RBC will never host the ACC. However, the ACC is going to be in Charlotte in 2008.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec.../030603aaa.html

Charlotte also will have the NCAA tournament first or second round (as RBC has had recently) in coming years.

[DanRNC]

Like I said no MAJOR tourneys. NCAA regionals are rotated throughout the country. Charlotte will never host the NCAA finals.

[sax184]

Like I said no MAJOR tourneys. NCAA regionals are rotated throughout the country. Charlotte will never host the NCAA finals.

From an economic development perspective, I think the ACC probably has a bigger eonomic impact on a city than the Final Four. The Final Four only hosts 3 games- the ACC tournament hosts 11 games over a longer period of time. That's more hotel stays, more meals at restaurants, more opportunities for business recruitment.

Also, the number of arenas that host the NCAA Finals is actually quite small. I think it's Minneapolis, St. Louis, Atlanta, and a few other arenas, over and over again- because so few locations fit the NCAA requirements.

Look- I'm not saying RBC is a bad facility- it's actually a very good arena on so many levels. I've enjoyed several ACC games and a NCAA game there. However, if you're planning a multi-day event that involves a large sports arena, the fact that you can't walk from the arena to anything except one restaurant and a horse barn significantly weakens its ability to bring in events.

The CIAA and ACC are perfect examples of the type of 4-day events that bring in lots of people who do things at the arena and away from the arena. In Raleigh, you MUST rent a car or bring one to participate. In Charlotte, you don't have to. Once you've purchased the plane ticket, walking or using transit on the ground is sooo much less expensive than renting a car for three days.

I've been to the ACC in Greensboro several times. However, if it's going to be in NC, and I was going to go for the whole 4 day tournament, I'd rather it be in Charlotte. When the game is over, there's more to do, better restaurants, stuff for non-sports junkies, and it's all really close to the arena.

[RDUairport]

Maybe its just my take on the article, but I feel the journalist for CLT wants to bad mouth Raleigh and the Canes however it may be because the Hurricanes in RALEIGH were able to become national champions before any professional team in CLT has been able to. NASCAR can't be compared because there isn't really a "home team" deal with it. Don't get me wrong I love nascar and going down there to watch them whenever I get a chance but still... National champs in Raleigh before CLT seems to piss the man off to me. Does anyone agree this could have been part of the reason for writing off the Hurricanes wonderful season?

[DanRNC]

Maybe its just my take on the article, but I feel the journalist for CLT wants to bad mouth Raleigh and the Canes however it may be because the Hurricanes in RALEIGH were able to become national champions before any professional team in CLT has been able to.

Thats exactly what is was about. Sour grapes-makes him look pretty classless as well as the paper. If the Panthers were to win the Super Bowl the N&O and Herald-Sun would be praising this team all over the place.

[ncwebguy]

Charlotte hosted the NCAA Final Four in 1994 -- "1994 President Bill Clinton became the first sitting president to attend the tournament, when he was present at the Midwest Regional championship game in Dallas and the national semifinals and final in Charlotte."

That building was not within walking distance of anything, but it still managed to host. I was there when Charlotte faked a downtown, putting restaurants, clubs, etc. in empty storefronts during the festivities. I still have a coffee mug from that somewhere.

I know Cardinal Gibbons is out there as part of the NC State land swap, but it would be nice to imaging an urban mini-core on the land around Wade, Trinity, and Edwards Mill. The office buildings could have been a mixed use North Hills-ish cluster with ground floor shops, restaurants, etc. Multi-family buildings would transition to townhouses and single family homes on a street grid instead of cul-de-sacs galore. A shuttle bus could go from West Central to the fairgrounds TTA stop. This may happen on a smaller scale with 40 West, but it could have been more. Maybe the school will move again if that land becomes too valuable?

The apartments further down Trinity could have been connected via walking paths, instead of the pedestrian unfriendly environment that exists now. There are houses hiding to the south of those offices, but they're cut off from everything else. With all that, a four star hotel could be there, instead of a few miles down Edwards Mill at the Glenwood intersection. The Edwards Mill/Duraleigh intersection has several restaurants, but it is not within RBC Center's walking radius.

The CIAA going to Charlotte was all about "mo money mo money mo money", dismissing the loyalty and local ties (Shaw, St. Augs, NCCU) the conference has to the area. I'm sure Sorenson forgot to put the CIAA final ahead of the Stanley Cup game seven, since it was on basic cable *and* was college basketball.

[dmccall]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the Fetzer angle in this thing. Like I said, he wanted a low-cost, second-rate arena that would have generated far less revenue, even if the Whalers had still come to it. When Saunders asked him about the details of the buildling's planning stages, Fetzer got a sudden case of amnesia.

I DO think that NCSU is as much to blame as Fetzer and his cronies, though. They were dead set on putting the arena on their land so they could control it. They really wanted to have a proud regional sports complex, much like Meadowlands. CFS and RBC out there together easily trump the old Charlotte Coliseum next to the old city dump, right. THAT building was the point of competition for State. NCSU even went to Odell (CLT Coliseum architects) to design the ESA building. (that's why it is outstanding functionally and pitiful on the exterior - all of Odell's projects are that way)

There are a few things that make sense, though:

* There was already a bunch of parking in place that is used on up to 20 days a year. Might as well use it for arena events, too, and avoid having to build very expensive parking decks.

* The site is close to the airport and major highways, much like Charlotte Coliseum was. Remember, we wanted to outdo Charlotte with this building.

* Canes fans are know across the NHL for their tailgating. That wouldn't happen in a downtown situation.

* The RBC Center parking lot is very safe. People like my mother and sister feel safe going to an event on a Tuesday night in the winter. It is hard to walk around downtown and not encounter someone who isn't there for the same event you are. That makes people nervous.

Here's my response to Tom Sorenson:

One day...the Panthers or Bobcats will win the championship. They will have parades, be featured on USA Today and ESPN.com's front page, CNN's Front Page, the Drudge Report, the cover of Sports Illustrated, national radio shows like Jim Rome's, and will be the top story on SportsCenter. What won't follow, however, is a bitter column from a jealous Raleigh sports columnist.

Go Panthers!

Go Bobcats!

[Eastwestrob]

Here's my response to Tom Sorenson:

One day...the Panthers or Bobcats will win the championship. They will have parades, be featured on USA Today and ESPN.com's front page, CNN's Front Page, the Drudge Report, the cover of Sports Illustrated, national radio shows like Jim Rome's, and will be the top story on SportsCenter. What won't follow, however, is a bitter column from a jealous Raleigh sports columnist.

Go Panthers!

Go Bobcats!

I couldn't agree more. I drove from Richmond 3 times last year to Panthers home games.

[Cary NC]

The NCAA Final Four will never be in CHarlotte again. The minimum requirement for attendance is 40,000. That is why they are holding them in domes for now on out. THe closet to us is the Georgia Dome which host the final four next year.

Here is the schedule thru 2011 for Final Fours

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/schedules

2003

The basketball committee agreed that the minimum Final Four seating capacity should be 40,000 and picked San Antonio, Detroit, Indianapolis and Houston to host in 2008-2011.

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/story/9033549

Raleigh is getting the 1st and 2nd round tourney the same year Charlotte is getting the regional finals. Great for basketball fans because we won't have to leave the state that year.

I always amazed at how many people within the state of NC pit Charlotte against Raleigh. Why? That is like sister turning on sister. We all live in the same state and should enjoy the success of the other city. I am a loyal Panthers in Broncos country( because I live in Denver CO currently) and a very loyal Canes fan in Avalanche country, same for the Bobcats. They are Carolinas' teams.